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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Confession

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  #1  
Old 01-21-2014, 10:08 AM
Lookinforacity's Avatar
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Arrow Confession

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Last edited by Lookinforacity : 08-14-2014 at 09:49 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-21-2014, 12:51 PM
HOLLAND's Avatar
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Default Re: Confession

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookinforacity
When a person goes to confession, never availing himself of the opportunity for Repentance, but continually returns confessing the same sin over and over again, isn't that confession in vain?
I would agree, Jim. If there is no change wrought by God's Spirit and no amendment of conduct of the person confessing the sin, the confession is in vain.

Quote:
Should there not be a change in the person, if the confession was heart felt, confession should not become license to sin because confession is available to him.
I would agree. If the confession was heart felt, but there was no change in the person in respect to sin, there is not the permission to sin, even if there is a thinking that one can confess the same sin(s) later on. This is simply presumption and is a denial of the need to confess sin in the first place.

Confession in these circumstances becomes a kind of game to deceive oneself or others in respect to what one is doing. It is the worshipping of an idol, in this case the idol is the unrepentant self, and this self is a jealous god because it is built upon pride.



Peace be with you!
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The humble, meek, merciful, just, pious and devout souls are everywhere of one religion; and when death has taken off the mask, they will know one another though the divers liveries they wear here make them strangers.
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  #3  
Old 01-21-2014, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: Confession

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookinforacity View Post
When a person goes to confession, never availing himself of the opportunity for Repentance, but continually returns confessing the same sin over and over again, isn't that confession in vain?.........
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOLLAND View Post
......If there is no change wrought by God's Spirit and no amendment of conduct of the person confessing the sin, the confession is in vain..........
And likewise........

When a person who only confesses sins directly to God and not through a priest keeps telling God he's sorry but keep doing the same things over and over, isn't that confession in vain too? You know, like lying all the time, just to name one example?

What I don't understand is why you decided to focus on the vanity of insincere confessions only in regard to people who "go to" confession. Why didn't you just ask the question in general regarding anyone who confesses sins to God, whether through a priest OR directly?

Of course, I'm sure the other people here already know the answer to THAT question.
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Last edited by CatholicCrusader : 01-21-2014 at 01:43 PM.
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  #4  
Old 01-21-2014, 10:58 PM
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Default Re: Confession

A person who confesses his sins because he knows that what he did is wrong and he's sorry for it, his sins will be forgiven. For example, he knows that being angry is a sin and is sorry for it, he will be forgiven. But if he finds himself committing the same sins over and over, it is because he's a weak person.

Christ does not want to only forgive the person's sins, but also to heal the person. A person can be repentent and tries his hardest not to commit the same sins, but he finds himself falling into the same sin again....is because he cannot heal himself of this wound. Christ is the only one who can heal him. Sometimes, our sins has a pattern or something triggers it. If one can find what causes him to sin, then healing can begin. For example, the woman who is constantly angry may be that way because in her past she was raped by a relative and has not forgiven that relative. What causes her anger at the world is that she has not forgotten the rape nor forgiven the rapist. When she confronts this problem within her, then she will find herself more at peace and not so angry at all.
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  #5  
Old 01-22-2014, 04:38 AM
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Default Re: Confession

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selene View Post
A person who confesses his sins because he knows that what he did is wrong and he's sorry for it, his sins will be forgiven. For example, he knows that being angry is a sin and is sorry for it, he will be forgiven. But if he finds himself committing the same sins over and over, it is because he's a weak person.

Christ does not want to only forgive the person's sins, but also to heal the person. A person can be repentent and tries his hardest not to commit the same sins, but he finds himself falling into the same sin again....is because he cannot heal himself of this wound. Christ is the only one who can heal him. Sometimes, our sins has a pattern or something triggers it. If one can find what causes him to sin, then healing can begin. For example, the woman who is constantly angry may be that way because in her past she was raped by a relative and has not forgiven that relative. What causes her anger at the world is that she has not forgotten the rape nor forgiven the rapist. When she confronts this problem within her, then she will find herself more at peace and not so angry at all.
Good post Selene.
Nice to se you again.
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- Saint Pope John Paul II
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  #6  
Old 01-22-2014, 04:44 AM
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Arrow Re: Confession




>>
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sacrament of penance and reconciliation


IV. INTERIOR PENANCE

1430 Jesus' call to conversion and penance, like that of the prophets before him, does not aim first at outward works, "sackcloth and ashes," fasting and mortification, but at the conversion of the heart, interior conversion. Without this, such penances remain sterile and false; however, interior conversion urges expression in visible signs, gestures and works of penance.23

1431 Interior repentance is a radical reorientation of our whole life, a return, a conversion to God with all our heart, an end of sin, a turning away from evil, with repugnance toward the evil actions we have committed. At the same time it entails the desire and resolution to change one's life, with hope in God's mercy and trust in the help of his grace. This conversion of heart is accompanied by a salutary pain and sadness which the Fathers called animi cruciatus (affliction of spirit) and compunctio cordis (repentance of heart).24

1432 The human heart is heavy and hardened. God must give man a new heart.25 Conversion is first of all a work of the grace of God who makes our hearts return to him: "Restore us to thyself, O LORD, that we may be restored!"26 God gives us the strength to begin anew. It is in discovering the greatness of God's love that our heart is shaken by the horror and weight of sin and begins to fear offending God by sin and being separated from him. The human heart is converted by looking upon him whom our sins have pierced:27
Let us fix our eyes on Christ's blood and understand how precious it is to his Father, for, poured out for our salvation it has brought to the whole world the grace of repentance.
1433 Since Easter, the Holy Spirit has proved "the world wrong about sin,"29 i.e., proved that the world has not believed in him whom the Father has sent. But this same Spirit who brings sin to light is also the Consoler who gives the human heart grace for repentance and conversion.30



References:
23 Cf. Joel 2:12-13; Isa 1:16-17; Mt 6:1-6; 16-18.
24 Cf. Council Of Trent (1551): DS 1676-1678; 1705; Cf. Roman Catechism, II,V,4.
25 Cf. Ezek 36:26-27.
26 Lam 5:21.
27 Cf. Jn 19:37; Zech 12:10.
28 St. Clement Of Rome, Ad Cor. 7,4:PG 1,224.
29 Cf. Jn 16:8-9.
30 Cf. Jn 15:26; Acts 2:36-38; John Paul II, DeV 27-48.
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- Saint Pope John Paul II
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  #7  
Old 01-22-2014, 06:50 AM
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Default Re: Confession

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
Good post Selene.
Nice to se you again.
Thanks CC.
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  #8  
Old 01-22-2014, 05:31 AM
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Default Re: Confession

There is no mediator between man and God except Jesus Christ. Why is it so few Catholics read their Bibles
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  #9  
Old 01-22-2014, 05:58 AM
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Default Re: Confession

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Originally Posted by victor View Post
There is no mediator between man and God except Jesus Christ. Why is it so few Catholics read their Bibles
That's two uninformed statements in one short post. Well done!

First of all, I have read my Bible, probably more than you, and I obviously understand it better. And at Sunday Mass we read far more scripture than is read at any protestant service.

As for Christ's mediatorship:

QUOTE:

All pardon for sins ultimately comes from Christ’s finished work on Calvary, but how is this pardon received by individuals? Did Christ leave us any means within the Church to take away sin? The Bible says he gave us two means.

Baptism was given to take away the sin inherited from Adam (original sin) and any sins we personally committed before baptism—sins we personally commit are called actual sins, because they come from our own acts. Thus on the day of Pentecost, Peter told the crowds, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38), and when Paul was baptized he was told, "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name" (Acts 22:16). And so Peter later wrote, "Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet. 3:21).

For sins committed after baptism, a different sacrament is needed. It has been called penance, confession, and reconciliation, each word emphasizing one of its.aspects. During his life, Christ forgave sins, as in the case of the woman caught in adultery (John 8:1–11) and the woman who anointed his feet (Luke 7:48). He exercised this power in his human capacity as the Messiah or Son of man, telling us, "the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins" (Matt. 9:6), which is why the Gospel writer himself explains that God "had given such authority to men" (Matt. 9:8).

Since he would not always be with the Church visibly, Christ gave this power to other men so the Church, which is the continuation of his presence throughout time (Matt. 28:20), would be able to offer forgiveness to future generations. He gave his power to the apostles, and it was a power that could be passed on to their successors and agents, since the apostles wouldn’t always be on earth either, but people would still be sinning.

God had sent Jesus to forgive sins, but after his resurrection Jesus told the apostles, "‘As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained’" (John 20:21–23). (This is one of only two times we are told that God breathed on man, the other being in Genesis 2:7, when he made man a living soul. It emphasizes how important the establishment of the sacrament of penance was.)


The Commission


Christ told the apostles to follow his example: "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 20:21). Just as the apostles were to carry Christ’s message to the whole world, so they were to carry his forgiveness: "Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 18:18).

This power was understood as coming from God: "All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation" (2 Cor. 5:18). Indeed, confirms Paul, "So we are ambassadors for Christ" (2 Cor. 5:20).

Some say that any power given to the apostles died with them. Not so. Some powers must have, such as the ability to write Scripture. But the powers necessary to maintain the Church as a living, spiritual society had to be passed down from generation to generation. If they ceased, the Church would cease, except as a quaint abstraction. Christ ordered the apostles to, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations." It would take much time. And he promised them assistance: "Lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age" (Matt. 28:19–20).

If the disciples believed that Christ instituted the power to sacramentally forgive sins in his stead, we would expect the apostles’ successors—the bishops—and Christians of later years to act as though such power was legitimately and habitually exercised. If, on the other hand, the sacramental forgiveness of sins was what Fundamentalists term it, an "invention," and if it was something foisted upon the young Church by ecclesiastical or political leaders, we’d expect to find records of protest. In fact, in early Christian writings we find no sign of protests concerning sacramental forgiveness of sins. Quite the contrary. We find confessing to a priest was accepted as part of the original deposit of faith handed down from the apostles.........<SNIP>

Rest of article: The Forgiveness of Sins | Catholic Answers
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- Saint Pope John Paul II
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  #10  
Old 01-23-2014, 07:29 AM
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Default Re: Confession

Greatly appreciate your post Crusader, I am usually pretty brief with my posts but on this occasion I feel the need say a bit more, not trying to be clever here but for you to assume that you have read the Bible more than me and obviously understand it better than me and then you forget that I pointed and you admitted you were wrong over the Paul and the gentiles issue when Jesus commanded Paul to be a light onto the Gentiles, a little bit rich don't you think but anyway I do know the Bible well. Unfortunately its 1am in Australia and I need to read your post properly before I reply in full but on a first brief look, when do I reply, I think you will have to admit your are wrong again
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