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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Can eat anything and just pray over it...brothers and sisters

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  #1  
Old 09-30-2013, 04:55 PM
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Default Can eat anything and just pray over it...brothers and sisters

The Dietary Law

Who gave Moses "The Dietary Law"? We will do a strange work which is seldom done today. We will allow the scripture to be our guide to answer that question, along with a few others that need to be addressed. After finding out who gave this law to Moses, we should have no problem following it, if we call ourselves Christians. Remember brothers and sisters Jesus, states in Matthew 5 and verse 18, "For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." We still have the heavens and the earth, correct? Those things indicate that the Lord's law still remains in tact. Those that read the Bible know that all has not been fulfilled, so His laws and statutes must be kept. In addition, we must also look at verses that some individuals think the subject in that particular verse or chapter is dealing with the "Dietary Law" when in fact has nothing to do with it. Those individuals try to uses Paul's writings to come to that conclusion. (As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. II Peter 3:16) The unquestionable fact is that the law of sacrifice was nailed to the cross, which was our schoolmaster to bring us onto Christ. Now, let’s see who gave the "Dietary Law" to Moses and the rest of the Children of Israel.


And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, “Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, these are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.” (Leviticus 11:1-2)

So, who spoke unto Moses and Aaron? The LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying, "These are the beasts which ye shall eat." Was this the Father? Well, let's allow the book show us. Take a Look at this verse in St. John chapter one.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. (John 1:18)

Note the verse says, "No man hath seen God at any time." Therefore, that covers all time correct. If no man has seen God at anytime who is this?
And he said unto Moses, “Come up unto the LORD, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off.” (Exodus 24:1)

We see in the above verse, Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu and seventy of the elders were told to come up unto the Lord and worship. Let's skip to the 9th verse and see what happen when these 74 Israelites arrive on top of the mount.

Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink. (Exodus 24:9-11)

Clearly the verse states, "They saw the God of Israel." The verse doesn't say it was a vision. But, St. John chapter one states, "No man has seen God at anytime.” Before we return to the Book of John and find out which God no man has seen at anytime, note what the next verse states.

And the LORD said unto Moses, “Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them.” (Exodus 24:12)
So who wrote the Law that Moses was instructed to teach? The LORD! Now, let's find out which God is it that has not been seen. Take note!
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. (John 5:37)

So who wrote the Law that Moses was instructed to teach? The LORD! Now, let us find out which God is it that has not been seen. Take note!
And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. (John 5:37)

So, who is the God that hasn't been seen? The Father himself, ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. Now, let's see who this God is that the seventy four elders saw in mount Horeb. Let us go to I Corinthians the tenth chapter and start at verse one.

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. (I Corinthians 10:1-4)

So, who was the God in the Mountain that gave Moses the Law? That God was CHRIST! Let's return to the fifth chapter of John and see who's name Christ came in.

I am come in my Father's name and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (John 5:43)

So, you see brothers and sister “Jesus” in the Fathers name. I would be real careful when it comes to the name of Jesus. Now we see that Jesus Christ is the God that gave the commandments to Moses. We should have no problem doing what He says if we call ourselves followers of Christ.
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Old 09-30-2013, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: Can eat anything and just pray over it...brothers and sisters

Before we look at the dietary law, let's look at a few verses that those who are unlearned in the scripture try to use to do away with the Lord's dietary law. Pay close attention to what's being said.

Then came to Jesus the Scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, “Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.” (Matthew 15:1-2)


Note what verse the states, "they wash not their hands when they eat bread." We see the subject is, eating without washing hands correct? Note something else in the above verse. The Pharisees asked Jesus, “Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders?”

Note the Lord's response; But he answered and said unto them, “Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; and honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.” (Matthew 15: 3-6)

The Pharisees followed their own tradition as a substitute to the commandments of God. Note what Jesus says next.

Ye hypocrites, well did Esaiah prophesy of you, saying, “This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” (Matthew 15:7-9)
The Pharisees of today (meaning the preachers) teach the doctrine of men, by making statements such as, "We are not under the law we are under grace.” Not knowing which law we are no longer under. Therefore their flocks are ever learning, meaning not coming to the true faith. Thus they worship the Lord in vain.

Let's cut to the chase, and see if the passage above has anything to do with doing away with dietary law.
And he called the multitude, and said unto them, “Hear, and understand: Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.”(Matthew 15:10-11)
So what is this that comes out of men's mouths that defiles them? Let's skip to the 15th verse These are verse and see if the Lord is doing away with His dietary law.

Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.” (Matthew 15:15-20).

Note what the Lord says, "Those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man."

Now we see brother and sisters that, this set of verses has nothing to do with the dietary law being nail to the cross. In fact the Lord tells the apostles what defiles men and that is breaking His commandments, note eating with unwashed hands.
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Old 09-30-2013, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: Can eat anything and just pray over it...brothers and sisters

Lets go into Acts chapter 10 is another part of the Bible that some individuals attempt to use to avoid the dietary law. Let's start at the first verse.

There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, a devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always. He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, “What is it, Lord?” And he said unto him, “Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter” (Acts 10:1-5)

The angel of the Lord could have told Cornelius all he needed to know about the Lord, but that would have broken the protocol of God. The word of God is in the hands of Israel and can only be taught by the sons of Jacob (Israel). That's why the angel sent Cornelius, which was a son of Japheth (Gentile), to Peter the Israelite. Cornelius sent two of his servant to find Peter. The Lord prepares Peter before the two servants arrived. Let's skip down to the 9th verse.

On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of four-footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, “Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.” (Acts 10: 9-14)

Peter was on the house top and became very hungry, correct? And the Lord showed Peter all different types four footed beasts, creeping things, and fowls of the air. The Lord told Peter kill and eat, correct? But, what was Peter's responds? "Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean." This vision was shown to Peter three times. Note what the 17th verse states.

Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate, (Acts 10:17)
Peter knew that the vision had a deeper meaning. So, what was the Lord trying to show Peter? Let's see what Peter's vision was all about.
And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends. And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man. And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
(Acts 10:24-27)

Pay very close attention to the next verse!

And he said unto them, “Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.” (Acts 10:28)

So, was the Lord telling Peter its okay to eat things that are common or unclean? No! The verse states, "I should not call any man common or unclean." Peter now understood the purpose of the vision, which was the allowance of the Gentiles into the church of God that was set up by Moses in the wilderness. Now that we see Acts chapter ten has nothing to do with the "Dietary law"
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: Can eat anything and just pray over it...brothers and sisters

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Originally Posted by brotan View Post
Lets go into Acts chapter 10 is another part of the Bible that some individuals attempt to use to avoid the dietary law. Let's start at the first verse.

There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band, a devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God always. He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, “What is it, Lord?” And he said unto him, “Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God. And now send men to Joppa, and call for one Simon, whose surname is Peter” (Acts 10:1-5)

The angel of the Lord could have told Cornelius all he needed to know about the Lord, but that would have broken the protocol of God. The word of God is in the hands of Israel and can only be taught by the sons of Jacob (Israel). That's why the angel sent Cornelius, which was a son of Japheth (Gentile), to Peter the Israelite. Cornelius sent two of his servant to find Peter. The Lord prepares Peter before the two servants arrived. Let's skip down to the 9th verse.

On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour: And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance, And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: Wherein were all manner of four-footed beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, “Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.” (Acts 10: 9-14)

Peter was on the house top and became very hungry, correct? And the Lord showed Peter all different types four footed beasts, creeping things, and fowls of the air. The Lord told Peter kill and eat, correct? But, what was Peter's responds? "Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean." This vision was shown to Peter three times. Note what the 17th verse states.

Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made inquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate, (Acts 10:17)
Peter knew that the vision had a deeper meaning. So, what was the Lord trying to show Peter? Let's see what Peter's vision was all about.
And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and had called together his kinsmen and near friends. And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man. And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.
(Acts 10:24-27)

Pay very close attention to the next verse!

And he said unto them, “Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath showed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.” (Acts 10:28)

So, was the Lord telling Peter its okay to eat things that are common or unclean? No! The verse states, "I should not call any man common or unclean." Peter now understood the purpose of the vision, which was the allowance of the Gentiles into the church of God that was set up by Moses in the wilderness. Now that we see Acts chapter ten has nothing to do with the "Dietary law"
The simplest question then is.

Why then does it mention his being hungry first, and then God showing Peter a sheet.

Act 10:12
12] Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13] And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14] But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15] And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

This was done three times, [there weren't any men especially Gentiles on the sheet], only food which the Jewish law says don't eat.

So your saying Peter derived from this vision of the sheet, that he should accept the Gentiles the same as he would the Jews as Christians.

If it's the law you want to follow, then follow it, but don't try to drag others there with you.

Rom 2:12-15
12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

The law has been written on our hearts, meaning it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ, also in us who believe in the Son of God.

JIM
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:15 AM
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Default Re: Can eat anything and just pray over it...brothers and sisters

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If it's the law you want to follow, then follow it, but don't try to drag others there with you.
Right.
Quote:
The law has been written on our hearts, meaning it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ, also in us who believe in the Son of God.
It could be that those who have it not yet written on their hearts may benefit from observing the laws of Moses. I don't see it benefiting them however if they judge others.
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Old 10-01-2013, 06:47 AM
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Default Re: Can eat anything and just pray over it...brothers and sisters

I would agree Jim (Lookinforacity) and Kerry (Giuliano) about this. Acts 10:9-28 and Romans 2:1-29 make the matter very plain to me.


Brotan, good chap, you seem to be a judaizer in the Pauline sense of the term. You do not want to dispute about Romans. Why not Galatians? In Galatians 5:4-26(NIV):

4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? 8 That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9 “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” 10 I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty. 11 Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.


Do you not think that you should really be sowing these dissensions on these matters of the law? It seems to run directly counter against what Paul had fought against in respect to the judaizers.



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Old 10-01-2013, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: Can eat anything and just pray over it...brothers and sisters

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I
Brotan, good chap, you seem to be a judaizer in the Pauline sense of the term. You do not want to dispute about Romans. Why not Galatians?
Nor could I get a straight answer from him about whether Christians should obey the commandments by the letter or by the spirit? He dodged, but then said something about the Spirit; and I think perhaps he was referring to the "Spirit of Truth" which came to the 120 in the Upper Room. But what do we learn from that? The Apostles ruled against burdening the Gentiles with the letter of the law. That is what the Spirit of Truth told them.

Acts 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.


Brotan persists in interpreting "keeping the commandments" as keeping the letter as the Jews did. He disagrees with the Apostles and he disagrees with the Jews as well who teach that Gentiles need not keep the law of Moses. The Apostles were following good Jewish thought when they rejected the judaiziers' demands. No well informed Jew would say such a thing. They didn't understand Judaism and were trying to tell the Apostles how to run the Christian church, thus they lacked both the Holy Spirit and an informed view of the Scriptures. There is nothing in the Old Testament that says Gentiles should observe these laws.
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:53 PM
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Default Re: Can eat anything and just pray over it...brothers and sisters



Rom 3:29-31
29] Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Now move on.

JIM
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:59 PM
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Default Re: Can eat anything and just pray over it...brothers and sisters

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Rom 3:29-31
29] Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30] Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31] Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Now move on.

JIM
The motor may be running, but there's a problem with getting it in gear.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: Can eat anything and just pray over it...brothers and sisters

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Originally Posted by Lookinforacity View Post
The simplest question then is.

Why then does it mention his being hungry first, and then God showing Peter a sheet.

Act 10:12
12] Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
13] And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
14] But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
15] And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

This was done three times, [there weren't any men especially Gentiles on the sheet], only food which the Jewish law says don't eat.

So your saying Peter derived from this vision of the sheet, that he should accept the Gentiles the same as he would the Jews as Christians.

If it's the law you want to follow, then follow it, but don't try to drag others there with you.

Rom 2:12-15
12] For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

The law has been written on our hearts, meaning it was fulfilled in Jesus Christ, also in us who believe in the Son of God.

JIM

Not sure I see a problem here with the word of God. We as Christians suppose to be Christ like...like Peter...eating nothing unclean!


Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Last edited by brotan : 10-02-2013 at 07:37 PM. Reason: add more
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