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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > John 1:1-2 is just common sense

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  #1  
Old 08-15-2013, 01:39 PM
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Default John 1:1-2 is just common sense

.
Here's the text as per the NKJV.

†. John 1:1-2 . . In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
God. He was in the beginning with God.

Watch as I utilize that passage as a template to coin a new passage in order to show-- in a way
that even Forrest Gump could get --what it's saying.

"In the beginning was the Eve, and the Eve was with Adam; and the Eve was Adam. She was in
the beginning with Adam."

You see: Eve wasn't manufactured directly from the dust of the earth as had been Adam; but
indirectly, from already-existing human tissue amputated from Adam's side. So then, organically,
Eve was just as much Adam as Adam.

If the Word is a direct descendant of God, as Eve was of Adam, then the Word is as much God
as his progenitor just as Eve was as much Adam as her progenitor.

Some people balk at that explanation because they simply cannot accept the Word as being
anything else but always a son rather than a born son.

FAQ: If I remember well my high school biology this is how amoebas procreate. Yet nobody
claims that two amoebas just separated are the one and same amoeba.

When an amoeba splits; is the result an amoeba or a paramecium? Answer: the result is an
amoeba; and the new amoeba is just as much an amoeba as its parent amoeba.

In my think-outside-the-box opinion, the Trinitarian theory that God and the Word are one and
the same person is a huge, huge mistake-- one and the same species? yes; but one and the same
person? no.

FAQ: So there are two gods of the same species?

I can think of no better way to say it.

Adam and Eve were two humans of the same species; yet at the same time they were one
because Eve was made from Adam. In the same manner; Yhvh and the Word are two gods of the
same species; yet at the same time they are one because the Word was made from Yhvh.

Here's an interesting thought.

The Bible's God is said to be infinite; viz: He's said to have always existed. But when you think
about it, somewhere, at some point in the infinite past, it has to be that God spoke His first word.
It stretches the imagination to assert that God has always been a speaker who never spoke a first
word. So; if it's true that God spoke a first word; then it's reasonable to conclude that God was
silent up to that point .

What if (and I'm only saying "if") God's first word turns out to be The Word of John 1:1-2? If so;
then that would imply that God's speech is just as divine as He is; including, but not limited to;
capable of creating ex nihilo the entire cosmos with all of its forms of life, matter, and energy.


Buen Camino
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Old 11-05-2014, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: John 1:1-2 is just common sense

I support your post and considering this definition: John 1:1 is contradictory because someone who is with another person cannot be the same as the other person at the same time; and, the “spirit” is not a person even though it may be personified in the bible. Most importantly, the translation is not grammatically correct. The ancient Koine Greek did not use indefinite articles such as “a” and “an.” English grammar requires the use of these articles for the proper context and meaning to be understood. In other word, the grammatically correct translation should be rendered: “…the Word was a god.” The indefinite articles are inserted before “god” in Acts 12:22; 28:6. In comparison, several other scriptures that are grammatically and structurally the same are translated with such indefinite articles. See Mark 6:49; 11:23; John 4:19; 6:70. Do you feel that the indefinite articles belongs here?

Furthermore, its origin is entirely pagan. In ancient Babylon, the worship of pagan Gods grouped in threes, or triads, was common. This spread to Egypt, Greece, and Rome in the centuries before, during, and after Christ. This doctrine, (Trinity) as accepted throughout most of Christianity today, was partially given birth at the Council of Nicaea in 425 CE. Presiding, the Roman Emperor Constantine whose sole concern was maintaining control of his empire because religious divisions were undermining his reign, decided that the relationship between God and Jesus were the same. Only a fraction of the bishops were present and most of them did not agree. However, they succumbed to intimidation and signed the decree. Constantine was not a Christian, had little understanding of the scripture, and lesser understand of the questions promulgated by Greek theology. Furthermore, the role of the “holy spirit” was not adopted until the Council of Constantinople in 381 C. E.
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Old 11-06-2014, 12:01 PM
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Default Re: John 1:1-2 is just common sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark51 View Post
John 1:1 is contradictory because someone who is with another person cannot be the same as the other person at the same time
That is true of people but God isn't subject to the same limitations that we are.

Quote:
Furthermore, its origin is entirely pagan. In ancient Babylon, the worship of pagan Gods grouped in threes, or triads, was common.
Where did the pagans get the concept of three gods? Immediately after the flood the entire human race had an accurate knowledge of God. As people spread out over the world much of that knowledge was lost and replaced by false ideas but pagan religions still retained some knowledge of the truth.
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Old 11-06-2014, 02:42 PM
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Default Re: John 1:1-2 is just common sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by weberhome02 View Post
.

In my think-outside-the-box opinion, the Trinitarian theory that God and the Word are one and the same person is a huge, huge mistake-- one and the same species? yes; but one and the same
person? no.


FAQ: So there are two gods of the same species?

I can think of no better way to say it.


/
But that is NOT the trinitarian position. You have stated it falsely.

The Trinitarian position is that God is three persons in one being.

There is only one God not two gods or three gods.


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Old 11-06-2014, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: John 1:1-2 is just common sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark51 View Post
Furthermore, its origin is entirely pagan. In ancient Babylon, the worship of pagan Gods grouped in threes, or triads, was common.
Common but wrong.

The Trinitarian position is not that there are three gods. A Trinity not a Triad.
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Old 11-06-2014, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: John 1:1-2 is just common sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by weberhome02 View Post
.
Here's an interesting thought.

The Bible's God is said to be infinite; viz: He's said to have always existed. But when you think
about it, somewhere, at some point in the infinite past, it has to be that God spoke His first word.
It stretches the imagination to assert that God has always been a speaker who never spoke a first
word. So; if it's true that God spoke a first word; then it's reasonable to conclude that God was
silent up to that point .


There is no infinite past for God. There is no past, present and future.

God created time when he created the world.

There is only time from our perspective.

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  #7  
Old 11-06-2014, 06:53 PM
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Default Re: John 1:1-2 is just common sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by winsome View Post


There is no infinite past for God. There is no past, present and future.

God created time when he created the world.

There is only time from our perspective.

Right. The Son's begottenness and the Spirit's procession took place outside of time, before time existed ("before all ages"), so we can't speak of "past" in the instance of the Trinity.
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Old 11-14-2014, 12:04 PM
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Default Re: John 1:1-2 is just common sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by theophilus40 View Post
That is true of people but God isn't subject to the same limitations that we are.

Where did the pagans get the concept of three gods? Immediately after the flood the entire human race had an accurate knowledge of God. As people spread out over the world much of that knowledge was lost and replaced by false ideas but pagan religions still retained some knowledge of the truth.
Thank you! Pagan mimics God not the other way around!!
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Old 11-22-2014, 12:13 PM
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Default Re: John 1:1-2 is just common sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark51 View Post
.
I read much of what you said concerning the trinity though the internet years ago. It's sad, MANY christian would rather follow a false teaching. Which can cost them their lives ,(1Tim. 2:3,4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour. Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth). When ALL they have to do is research. It's like they don't even want the truth. these same ones who claim to love Jesus, calls him a liar. Though many would say I haven't, if they say Jesus is the God and Father, they are.

It don't take more than one scripture from Jesus to show me. He KNOWS what he's talking about ,(John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God). Jesus shows that he ISN'T God and Father, but has one. I would rather believe Jesus, than believe someone who's acting as though they live with Jesus. Some have try to say Jesus was ONLY the son on earth. But he's the God once he went back to Heaven.

But that's STILL wrong because scriptures shows this ,(Psa.110:1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool). NOTICE the two “LORDS”, one in caps., one lowercase. This CLEARLY show there's two beings NOT one. And the one in caps, is speaking to the other. And here (Rev.7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb). This time scriptures makes it clear there's a Almighty God. And the Lamb which we ALL know is Jesus. People really need to stop following false teachings. peace
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Old 11-22-2014, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: John 1:1-2 is just common sense

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoJo View Post
I read much of what you said concerning the trinity though the internet years ago. It's sad, MANY christian would rather follow a false teaching. Which can cost them their lives ,(1Tim. 2:3,4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour. Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth). When ALL they have to do is research. It's like they don't even want the truth. these same ones who claim to love Jesus, calls him a liar. Though many would say I haven't, if they say Jesus is the God and Father, they are.

It don't take more than one scripture from Jesus to show me. He KNOWS what he's talking about ,(John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God). Jesus shows that he ISN'T God and Father, but has one. I would rather believe Jesus, than believe someone who's acting as though they live with Jesus. Some have try to say Jesus was ONLY the son on earth. But he's the God once he went back to Heaven.

But that's STILL wrong because scriptures shows this ,(Psa.110:1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool). NOTICE the two “LORDS”, one in caps., one lowercase. This CLEARLY show there's two beings NOT one. And the one in caps, is speaking to the other. And here (Rev.7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb). This time scriptures makes it clear there's a Almighty God. And the Lamb which we ALL know is Jesus. People really need to stop following false teachings. peace
What is sad JoJo is that after all these years you still are not arguing against the Truth of the Trinity as Revealed by GOD.

NOBODY is saying that Jesus IS the Father! Do you understand this?

Notice that Jesus NEVER said I am going to OUR God and Father. Jesus always referred to the Father as MY Father, not OUR Father. He taught US to pray "Our Father" but He always without exception said MY Father.

Why is that? You may ask?

Because His Sonship is infinitely different from OUR sonship!

Jesus is the Only Son, Begotten of God the Father BY VERY NATURE. This means He has the SAME Nature as His Father, a Divine Nature: "and the Word was God." (Jn 1:1)

WE, on the other hand, are sons by ADOPTION. That is, sons BY GRACE, not by nature.

It is you who needs to stop believing in counterfeit gospels and false teachers.
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"... There is nothing more beautiful than to be surprised by the Gospel, by the encounter with Christ. There is nothing more beautiful than to know Him and to speak to others of our friendship with Him." (Pope Benedict XVI) [Homily of His Holiness, Sunday, April 24th 2005]

GOD MADE MARY
NE - CES - SARY.


When Jesus, the Living Bread, says IS He means IS.
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