True2Ourselves
Already a member? login
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
  
+
Register FAQ A-Z directory Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > The 3 PATRIARCHS and the HOLY TRINITY . . .

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-26-2013, 07:54 PM
AHJE's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,014
Question The 3 PATRIARCHS and the HOLY TRINITY . . .

Why are there 3 Patriarchs and not 2 or 4? ... Does it have to do with the fact that God is One in Three Persons? Why is God often called the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? ...

Abraham and God the Father (Being Personified, the Great I AM) ...

We know that Abraham was promised a Holy Land and that his wife Sarah would bear him a son, eventhough she was barren in her old age. Abraham's name was changed from Abram to Abraham (which means FATHER OF MANY NATIONS). Here we see that there is a mystery of GENERATION being spoken of, ... that God would intervene to give Abraham a son so that Abram could become a "father to many nations". ... The promised land seems to signify the theological significance of Substance. Jesus Himself said, "All that the Father has is mine" in the Gospel of St. John. And Abraham was promised by God that he would have possession of this land and that his MANY sons would inherit it.

Abraham received a visit by three angels, another allusion to the number three and to God, since this was a Theophany, a Divine Manifestation.



Isaac and God the Son (Knowledge Personified, the Eternal Word) . . .

Isaac, we know, had a miraculous conception/birth of an old barren woman. This is a prefigurement of God the Son Who had a miraculous conception/birth of a young maiden virgin, the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Isaac, we know, was offered up by Abraham as a sacrifice to God, in obedience to God, ... another obvious prefigurement of God the Son Who was GIVEN by God the Father for the salvation of the world and Who gave up Himself as an atoning Sacrifice on the Cross. The Bible also tells us that Isaac was received back as a symbol of the Resurrection in the Book of Hebrews. Clearly, Isaac is a Type of God the Son.



Isaac, we know, was BLIND in his later years. This speaks to us of the mystery of KNOWLEDGE. In the bible, the eyes signify knowledge, ... This is interesting since God the Son is the Self - Knowledge (Word) of the Father Personified. Isaac, because of his blindness, could not KNOW who of his two sons he was giving his blessing to, a blessing that would carry on through all the generations of Abraham's descendants. It is through Isaac, not Ishmael, that the promise will be fulfilled. ... Here we have the word "THROUGH" ... it is THROUGH the Son that man comes to the Father and to the Kingdom of God.


Jacob and God the Holy Spirit (Love Personified, the Eternal Breath) . . .

The Holy Spirit is the Love between the Father and the Son . . .
How does Jacob typify Love Personified, the Holy Spirit?

... We know that the story of Jacob is a love story, a story about ENDURING LOVE ... Jacob could not marry the younger and desired Rachel until he first served her father Laban for FOURTEEN whole years, ... this had to seem like an eternity for Jacob who was madly in love with Rachel. And yet, he persevered until he was united with his beloved. ... If this does not typify the Holy Spirit, I don't know what does! ...



The Holy Spirit is the Will of God (which is Love) Personified, ... we see in Jacob's WILLINGNESS to work for 14 years for his beloved . . . an excellent type of the Holy Spirit.


Jacob fathered the twelve tribes of Israel. This calls to mind how the Holy Spirit gives life to the Church founded upon the twelve Apostles.

Jacob's name was changed to Israel, which means STRUGGLE WITH GOD.
It is in the Holy Spirit that we fight the good fight and realize that WITH GOD all things are possible.

Israel, as a whole, typifies the Church of Christ, the New Israel, and the TEMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.


What do you think? ... Are the Three Patriarchs a sign from God that God is Triune? Is the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob ... the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit? What do you say?


Happy Solemnity of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity everyone! (Its Trinity Sunday!) :-)

A. H. J. E.

After the Heart of Jesus Evangelist
__________________
_______________________________


"... There is nothing more beautiful than to be surprised by the Gospel, by the encounter with Christ. There is nothing more beautiful than to know Him and to speak to others of our friendship with Him." (Pope Benedict XVI) [Homily of His Holiness, Sunday, April 24th 2005]

GOD MADE MARY
NE - CES - SARY.


When Jesus, the Living Bread, says IS He means IS.

Last edited by AHJE : 05-27-2013 at 04:13 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-26-2013, 10:48 PM
Amadeus's Avatar
Knight of the Forum
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,170
Default Re: The 3 PATRIARCHS and the HOLY TRINITY . . .

Quote:
AHJE: Why are there 3 Patriarchs and not 2 or 4?

"And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs." Acts 7:8
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-26-2013, 10:57 PM
Suspended for Review
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,435
Default Re: The 3 PATRIARCHS and the HOLY TRINITY . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by AHJE View Post
Why are there 3 Patriarchs and not 2 or 4? ... Does it have to do with the fact that God is One in Three Persons? Why is God often called the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? ...
All three are called that because of the covenants God made with them.

Ishmael was the son of Abraham, and is blessed on that account; but Isaac was the child of promise and had his own covenant with God. Similarly Esau was eventually blessed, but God's covenant was with Jacob.

They are all three "fathers" then since the covenants included their children. How three people called "fathers" demonstrates something about the trinity seems quite a stretch to me. It seems desperate even. If you can't come up with something more convincing than this to justify your belief in the trinity, perhaps you should reconsider your position.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-27-2013, 09:23 AM
AHJE's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,014
Question Re: The 3 PATRIARCHS and the HOLY TRINITY . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
"And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs." Acts 7:8
Should I have said, 3 Chief Patriarchs?

Also, ... aren't you forgetting that Jacob's name was changed to ISRAEL?

Also, ... why when God revealed Himself to Moses on Mount Horeb God did not say "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, and the God of Judah, the God of Joseph, the God of Benjamin, etc. ?
__________________
_______________________________


"... There is nothing more beautiful than to be surprised by the Gospel, by the encounter with Christ. There is nothing more beautiful than to know Him and to speak to others of our friendship with Him." (Pope Benedict XVI) [Homily of His Holiness, Sunday, April 24th 2005]

GOD MADE MARY
NE - CES - SARY.


When Jesus, the Living Bread, says IS He means IS.

Last edited by AHJE : 05-27-2013 at 09:29 AM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-27-2013, 09:31 AM
AHJE's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,014
Default Re: The 3 PATRIARCHS and the HOLY TRINITY . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuliano View Post
All three are called that because of the covenants God made with them.

Ishmael was the son of Abraham, and is blessed on that account; but Isaac was the child of promise and had his own covenant with God. Similarly Esau was eventually blessed, but God's covenant was with Jacob.

They are all three "fathers" then since the covenants included their children. How three people called "fathers" demonstrates something about the trinity seems quite a stretch to me. It seems desperate even. If you can't come up with something more convincing than this to justify your belief in the trinity, perhaps you should reconsider your position.
For me, ... it is not so much a matter of proving anything, ... I see it as an awesome meditation on something I already believe in.

... Although, typologically speaking, I find it very very compelling. How can you not?
__________________
_______________________________


"... There is nothing more beautiful than to be surprised by the Gospel, by the encounter with Christ. There is nothing more beautiful than to know Him and to speak to others of our friendship with Him." (Pope Benedict XVI) [Homily of His Holiness, Sunday, April 24th 2005]

GOD MADE MARY
NE - CES - SARY.


When Jesus, the Living Bread, says IS He means IS.

Last edited by AHJE : 05-27-2013 at 12:20 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-27-2013, 03:23 PM
AHJE's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,014
Arrow Re: The 3 PATRIARCHS and the HOLY TRINITY . . .

Mysteries of the Bible on Abraham [and Isaac]. . .








__________________
_______________________________


"... There is nothing more beautiful than to be surprised by the Gospel, by the encounter with Christ. There is nothing more beautiful than to know Him and to speak to others of our friendship with Him." (Pope Benedict XVI) [Homily of His Holiness, Sunday, April 24th 2005]

GOD MADE MARY
NE - CES - SARY.


When Jesus, the Living Bread, says IS He means IS.

Last edited by AHJE : 05-27-2013 at 03:39 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-27-2013, 03:36 PM
AHJE's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,014
Arrow Re: The 3 PATRIARCHS and the HOLY TRINITY . . .

Mysteries of the Bible on [Isaac and] Jacob ...








__________________
_______________________________


"... There is nothing more beautiful than to be surprised by the Gospel, by the encounter with Christ. There is nothing more beautiful than to know Him and to speak to others of our friendship with Him." (Pope Benedict XVI) [Homily of His Holiness, Sunday, April 24th 2005]

GOD MADE MARY
NE - CES - SARY.


When Jesus, the Living Bread, says IS He means IS.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-27-2013, 03:37 PM
AHJE's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,014
Default Re: The 3 PATRIARCHS and the HOLY TRINITY . . .

WOW, ... try to view the above videos in the light of the OP!
__________________
_______________________________


"... There is nothing more beautiful than to be surprised by the Gospel, by the encounter with Christ. There is nothing more beautiful than to know Him and to speak to others of our friendship with Him." (Pope Benedict XVI) [Homily of His Holiness, Sunday, April 24th 2005]

GOD MADE MARY
NE - CES - SARY.


When Jesus, the Living Bread, says IS He means IS.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-27-2013, 09:48 PM
Amadeus's Avatar
Knight of the Forum
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,170
Default Re: The 3 PATRIARCHS and the HOLY TRINITY . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by AHJE View Post
Should I have said, 3 Chief Patriarchs?

Also, ... aren't you forgetting that Jacob's name was changed to ISRAEL?

Also, ... why when God revealed Himself to Moses on Mount Horeb God did not say "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, and the God of Judah, the God of Joseph, the God of Benjamin, etc. ?
You began the thread on the note that Patriarchs being three in number somehow established something. How many patriarchs do you need? Three, 15, or 16? Have one more...

"Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. "Acts 2:29

Instead of starting with what you already believe, would a better starting place be at the bottom assuming that you know nothing?

"When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;
And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.

But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.

For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:8-11
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-27-2013, 10:45 PM
Suspended for Review
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,435
Default Re: The 3 PATRIARCHS and the HOLY TRINITY . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by AHJE View Post
Also, ... why when God revealed Himself to Moses on Mount Horeb God did not say "I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, and the God of Judah, the God of Joseph, the God of Benjamin, etc. ?
If you want to talk about what God said at Horeb, four fathers or ancestors of Moses are named there.

Exodus 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Trinity Olsen Theology 791 02-28-2016 10:28 PM
I believe, a treatise against TRINITY PASHA General Discussions 114 07-02-2009 05:42 PM
The trinity, Colin's way colin Theology 4 06-27-2009 01:31 PM
The trinity colin Theology 10 06-19-2009 02:07 PM
Trinity 36Grit Theology 9 12-30-2008 09:08 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:37 PM.


true2ourselves
 
 
 

Flashcoms

You need to upgrade your Flash Player.

Version 8 or higher is required.

download from http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29