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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > The 1st Three Commandments and the TRINITY . . .

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Old 05-12-2013, 07:11 PM
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Lightbulb The 1st Three Commandments and the TRINITY . . .

God has revealed in the 10 COMMANDMENTS that man has an obligation both towards God and towards his fellow man. The first Three Commandments are concerned with man's relation to God and the following Seven Commandments are concerned with man's relation to his fellow man.

Let us look at the first Three Commandments and see if they have any relation to the the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity:

1st Commandment:

"AND the Lord spoke all these words: I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me. Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me: And shewing mercy unto thousands to them that love me, and keep my commandments." (Exodus 20:1-6)




"Keep therefore your souls carefully. You saw not any similitude in the day that the Lord God spoke to you in Horeb from the midst of the fire: Lest perhaps being deceived you might make you a graven similitude, or image ..." (Deut. 4:15-16)
"... neither have you heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape." (St. John 5:37)
"No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (St. John 1:18)
"... Christ Jesus: Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: ..." (Philippians 2:5-6)
"... and the Word was God." (St. John 1:1)
"I and the Father are one." (St. John 10:30)
"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the figure of his substance, ..." (Hebrews 1:3)
"Who is the image of the invisible God, ..." (Col. 1:15)


2nd Commandment:

"Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that shall take the name of the Lord his God in vain." (Exodus 20:7)




"O LORD, our Lord, how admirable is thy name in the whole earth! For thy magnificence is elevated above the heavens." (Psalms 8:2)
"And they adored the dragon, which gave power to the beast: and they adored the beast, saying: Who is like to the beast? and who shall be able to fight with him? And there was given to him a mouth speaking great things, and blasphemies: and power was given to him to do two and forty months. And he opened his mouth unto blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven." (Apocalypse 13:4-6)
"For Christ did not please himself, but as it is written: The reproaches of them that reproached thee, fell upon me." (Romans 15:3)
"John answered him saying: Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, who followeth not us, and we forbade him. But Jesus said: Do not forbid him. For there is no man that doth a miracle in my name, and can soon speak ill of me. For he that is not against you, if for you. For whosoever shall give you to drink a cup of water in my name, because you belong to Christ: amen I say to you, he shall not lose his reward." (St. Mark 9:37-40)
"O generation of vipers, how can you speak good things, whereas you are evil? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of a good treasure bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of an evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment. For by words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." (St. Matthew 12:34-37)
"The Jews therefore answered, and said to him: Do not we say well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? Jesus answered: I have not a devil: but I honour my Father, and you have dishonoured me. But I seek not my own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth." (St. John 8:48-50)
"Woe to you that call evil good, and good evil: that put darkness for light, and light for darkness: that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter." (Isaias 5:20)


3rd Commandment:

"Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day. Six days shalt thou labour, and shalt do all thy works. But on the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt do no work in it, thou nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy beast, nor the stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them, and rested on the seventh day: therefore the Lord blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it." (Exodus 20:8-11) "Observe the day of the sabbath, to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee. Six days shalt thou labour, and shalt do all thy works. The seventh is the day of the sabbath, that is, the rest of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not do any work therein, thou nor thy manservant, nor thy ox, nor thy ***, nor any of thy beasts, nor the stranger that is within thy gates: that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest, even as thyself. Remember that thou also didst serve in Egypt, and the Lord thy God brought thee out from thence with a strong hand, and a stretched out arm. Therefore hath he commanded thee that thou shouldst observe the sabbath day." (Deut. 5:12-15)




"And he that sat on the throne, said: Behold, I make all things new." (Apocalypse 21:5)

"If then any be in Christ a new creature, the old things are passed away, behold all things are made new." (2 Cor. 5:17)

"But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ; by whom the world is crucified to me, and I to the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature." (Gal. 6:14-15)

"For we are buried together with him by baptism into death; that as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life." (Romans 6:4)

"Thou shalt send forth thy spirit, and they shall be created: and thou shalt renew the face of the earth." (Psalms 103:30)

" 7 Wherefore, as the Holy Ghost saith: *To-day, if you shall hear his voice,

8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the desert,

9 Where your fathers tempted me, proved, and saw my works,

10 Forty years: For which cause I was offended with this generation, and I said: They always err in heart. And they have not known my ways,

11 As I have sworn in my wrath: If they shall enter into my rest.

12 Take heed, brethren, lest perhaps there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, to depart from the living God:

13 But exhort one another every day, whilst to-day is named: lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

14 For we are made partakers of Christ: yet so if we hold the beginning of his substance firm unto the end.

15 While it is said: To-day, if you shall hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in that provocation.

16 For some who heard did provoke: but not all who came out of Egypt by Moses.

17 And with whom was he offended forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, *whose carcasses fell in the desert?

18 And to whom did he swear that they should not enter into his rest: but to them that believed not.

19 And we see that they could not enter in, because of unbelief.

1 Let us, therefore, fear, lest perhaps forsaking the promise of entering into his rest, any of you be thought to be wanting.

2 For to us also it hath been declared as well as to them, but the word of hearing did not profit them, not being mixed with the faith of those things which they heard.

3 For we, who have believed, shall enter into rest; as he said: *As I have sworn in my wrath: If they shall enter into my rest: and this when the works from the foundation of the world were finished.

4 For in a certain place he spoke of the seventh day thus: *And God rested the seventh day from all his works.

5 And in this place again: If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing then it remaineth that some are to enter into it, and they, to whom it was first preached, did not enter in because of unbelief:

7 Again he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To-day, after so long a time, as it is above said: *To-day, if you shall hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, he would never have afterwards spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth, therefore, a rest for the people of God.

10 For he who is entered into his rest: he also hath rested from his works, as God from his.

11 Let us hasten, therefore, to enter into that rest: lest any man fall into the same example of unbelief.

12 For the word of God is living and effectual, and more penetrating than any two-edged sword: and reaching unto the division of the soul and the spirit, of the joints also, and the marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

13 *Neither is there any creature invisible in his sight: but all things are naked and open to the eyes of him, to whom our speech is."
(Hebrews 3:7-16 HEBREWS - Chapter 3 ; 4:1-13 HEBREWS - Chapter 4 )



As we can see, the first commandment is focused on the FORM of God, ... how there is ONE DIVINE BEING, One True God, One Divine Substance. ... The Father is Being Personified.

As we can see, the Name of the Lord is not to be profaned by unworthy speech. The fact that God has a Name shows that He is a Personal God. ... And the Word of God is His Only Son, Jesus Christ. He is the Fullness of God's Self-Communication to man. The Word is the Self-Knowledge of God Personified.

As we can see, the Holy Day of Rest is pointing to the New Creation and the New Exodus in Christ and His Resurrection from the Dead ON THE FIRST DAY of the week. The Holy Spirit seeks to form in us a new heart that will listen to the Word of God by Faith and Obedience. ... Works have to do with the Will, ... and the Holy Spirit is the Will of God (which is LOVE) Personified.


Praised be the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity!


A. H. J. E.

After the Heart of Jesus Evangelist
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"... There is nothing more beautiful than to be surprised by the Gospel, by the encounter with Christ. There is nothing more beautiful than to know Him and to speak to others of our friendship with Him." (Pope Benedict XVI) [Homily of His Holiness, Sunday, April 24th 2005]

GOD MADE MARY
NE - CES - SARY.


When Jesus, the Living Bread, says IS He means IS.

Last edited by AHJE : 05-15-2013 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: The 1st Three Commandments and the TRINITY . . .

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Originally Posted by AHJE View Post
God has revealed in the 10 COMMANDMENTS that man has an obligation both towards God and towards his fellow man. The first Three Commandments are concerned with man's relation to God and the following Seven Commandments are concerned with man's relation to his fellow man...........
Very good my friend, very good. I can see that somebody has been cracking open their Catechism.

BTW: The picture for the 1st commandmet is cool. I like that one.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:15 AM
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Default Re: The 1st Three Commandments and the TRINITY . . .

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Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
Very good my friend, very good. I can see that somebody has been cracking open their Catechism.

BTW: The picture for the 1st commandmet is cool. I like that one.
... Thanks CC, ... just noticing that there are three Commandments that relate to God and was wondering if there is a connection to the Holy Trinity. I think that there is.
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"... There is nothing more beautiful than to be surprised by the Gospel, by the encounter with Christ. There is nothing more beautiful than to know Him and to speak to others of our friendship with Him." (Pope Benedict XVI) [Homily of His Holiness, Sunday, April 24th 2005]

GOD MADE MARY
NE - CES - SARY.


When Jesus, the Living Bread, says IS He means IS.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:31 AM
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Default Re: The 1st Three Commandments and the TRINITY . . .

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... Thanks CC, ... just noticing that there are three Commandments that relate to God and was wondering if there is a connection to the Holy Trinity. I think that there is.
I never thought about that. The more you dig through scripture, the more interesting things pop open before your eyes.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:22 AM
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Default Re: The 1st Three Commandments and the TRINITY . . .

You are so right!, when you said ...” the Holy Spirit IS the WILL!... of God. IF people would just the time to do research on the origins of the “trinity”. They would know Jesus was NOT referring to a “third part of him and his Father", the God of Israel ,(Exo. 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them). When Jesus said at ,(Matt. 12:31,32 “Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come”).


he was referring to one speaking ill against his Father's Power to make whatever he want to happen, happen. IF there was a 3-in-1 god, why wasn’t the Father mention? Jesus wouldn’t have left him out, especially since he mentioned himself! also many don't realize, the words that on us currency ..."in god we trust", IS a form blasphemy. since the government does NOT run this country by Jehovah God's words, or Jesus for that matter. they both are taking very lightly. anyway...


you post MANY good scriptures, proving there's NO trinity. Sadly though MANY of us post or related those scriptures to people. But STILL got, “there is a trinity”, even though those same people claim to believe Jesus every word. we even show this scripture ,(Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father). IF... the HS was an being, surely “he” would have been mentioned here. Jehovah God is as you shown, the ONE true God. Jehovah God was always here ,(Psa. 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God).. Jesus wasn't he was created, even if MANY refuse to believe ,(Colo. 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature). And (Pro. 8:22-30 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old...).


There's NO connection to the “trinity” ,Jesus AWAYS let us know there's ONLY two main high beings in Heaven ,him and his Father. And he NEVER...showed they were one, as in “one god three heads”, or whatever the false teaching is. He showed they were TWO individuals ,(John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent). Here ,(John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life). Which Jesus DID NOT teach, as many ministers have, “Jesus ,the God ,came down to earth as the son”. Finally ,(1Cor. 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God). peace
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: The 1st Three Commandments and the TRINITY . . .

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Originally Posted by JoJo View Post
You are so right!, when you said ...” the Holy Spirit IS the WILL!... of God. IF people would just the time to do research on the origins of the “trinity”. They would know Jesus was NOT referring to a “third part of him and his Father", the God of Israel ,(Exo. 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them). When Jesus said at ,(Matt. 12:31,32 “Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come”).


he was referring to one speaking ill against his Father's Power to make whatever he want to happen, happen. IF there was a 3-in-1 god, why wasn’t the Father mention? Jesus wouldn’t have left him out, especially since he mentioned himself! also many don't realize, the words that on us currency ..."in god we trust", IS a form blasphemy. since the government does NOT run this country by Jehovah God's words, or Jesus for that matter. they both are taking very lightly. anyway...


you post MANY good scriptures, proving there's NO trinity. Sadly though MANY of us post or related those scriptures to people. But STILL got, “there is a trinity”, even though those same people claim to believe Jesus every word. we even show this scripture ,(Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father). IF... the HS was an being, surely “he” would have been mentioned here. Jehovah God is as you shown, the ONE true God. Jehovah God was always here ,(Psa. 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God).. Jesus wasn't he was created, even if MANY refuse to believe ,(Colo. 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature). And (Pro. 8:22-30 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old...).


There's NO connection to the “trinity” ,Jesus AWAYS let us know there's ONLY two main high beings in Heaven ,him and his Father. And he NEVER...showed they were one, as in “one god three heads”, or whatever the false teaching is. He showed they were TWO individuals ,(John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent). Here ,(John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life). Which Jesus DID NOT teach, as many ministers have, “Jesus ,the God ,came down to earth as the son”. Finally ,(1Cor. 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God). peace
JoJo, ... the Holy Spirit is the Will of God (LOVE) PERSONIFIED. The Holy Spirit is the LOVE between the Father and the Son ... Personified. ... Personified.

The Father is BEING Personified.
The Son is His WORD (Self-Knowledge) Personified.


If BEING is Personified in the Father and KNOWLEDGE is Personified in the Son, by what authority do you say that WILL (LOVE) is not Personified in the Holy Spirit (Jesus Himself said that the Holy Spirit is ANOTHER PARACLETE and used the Personal Pronoun for the Holy Ghost). Furthermore, the Bible says that "God IS Love." And this is the Love between the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit.


God bless you.
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"... There is nothing more beautiful than to be surprised by the Gospel, by the encounter with Christ. There is nothing more beautiful than to know Him and to speak to others of our friendship with Him." (Pope Benedict XVI) [Homily of His Holiness, Sunday, April 24th 2005]

GOD MADE MARY
NE - CES - SARY.


When Jesus, the Living Bread, says IS He means IS.

Last edited by AHJE : 05-15-2013 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:24 AM
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Default Re: The 1st Three Commandments and the TRINITY . . .

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.

I know the Holy Spirit is Jehovah Gods Will or Power to make whatever he wants to happen, happen, and I know Jehovah is love ,(1 John 4:8). True Jesus said at , (John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever). But he NEVER showed the Holy Spirit was THIRD part of him and his Father. Again when he spoke of a together-ness ,in ever way, it was ALWAYS him and his Father, NOT a third being.


The Holy Spirit, that Jehovah God sent, WASN'T a literal being. But him being there to help his people even though Jesus was gone from earth. I post MANY scriptures showing there is NO three HIGH beings only two. And I also shows that people were “filled” with the Holy Spirit ,(Luke 1:41). just like people are loving, are said to be Filled with love. That didn't mean someone was there beside that person, (a third being). They loved, because they allowed themselves to accept Jehovah's will for them to love.


Since God doesn't make us do anything, many don't show that gift of love they have, through Jehovah HS. John said at ,(Matt. 3:11 “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire”). Did this mean Jesus was using a third part of him and his Father? Just as John wasn't referring to a literal fire. He wasn't referring to another being, but the Power of Jehovah God. Again the “trinity”, ISN'T a teaching of Jesus, it's a false teaching of satan. And as I stated MANY times, any who wants the truth on the origins of the trinity can google it, MANY just don't. peace

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Old 06-07-2013, 08:19 AM
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Default Re: The 1st Three Commandments and the TRINITY . . .

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God has revealed in the 10 COMMANDMENTS that man has an obligation both towards God and towards his fellow man.
Why do you persist in trying to convince others of your views? Let me be a little more frank and forceful.

First of all, it's not the "Ten Commandments." It's the Decalogue -- the ten sayings or ten words. There are 613 commandments. Don't take my word for it -- look it up in the Hebrew, the word dabar means "word" or "saying." The KJV wrongly translated it as "commandment" and others followed suit.

Quote:
The first Three Commandments are concerned with man's relation to God and the following Seven Commandments are concerned with man's relation to his fellow man.

Let us look at the first Three Commandments and see if they have any relation to the the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity:

1st Commandment:

"AND the Lord spoke all these words: I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.
Did God bring you and your fathers out of Egypt? How does this apply to you then? But at any rate, the word "translated" as "strange" should read "other." And your trinity has three Gods. So you're breaking this one. You do not have the same God as the Jews. You have some variation; and I tell you what Jesus told the woman at the well, "You worship you know not what." Jews know what God is, and if you disagree with them, you're wrong. Jesus said that.

Quote:
Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth.
Do you do this? Yes, you do. Lucky for you, this was given to Israel and not to the Gentiles.

Quote:
Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me: And shewing mercy unto thousands to them that love me, and keep my commandments." (Exodus 20:1-6)

"Keep therefore your souls carefully. You saw not any similitude in the day that the Lord God spoke to you in Horeb from the midst of the fire: Lest perhaps being deceived you might make you a graven similitude, or image ..." (Deut. 4:15-16)[/indent]
"... neither have you heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape." (St. John 5:37)
"No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." (St. John 1:18)
"... Christ Jesus: Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: ..." (Philippians 2:5-6)
"... and the Word was God." (St. John 1:1)
"I and the Father are one." (St. John 10:30)
"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the figure of his substance, ..." (Hebrews 1:3)
"Who is the image of the invisible God, ..." (Col. 1:15)
Lots of fanciful reasoning to deny the simple idea that God is One when you want to say God is three. And you contrive to say Jesus is Divine, and it's fine to have images of him. What are you revering -- his physical body?
Quote:
2nd Commandment:

"Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain: for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that shall take the name of the Lord his God in vain." (Exodus 20:7)


"O LORD, our Lord, how admirable is thy name in the whole earth! For thy magnificence is elevated above the heavens." (Psalms 8:2)[/indent]
You couldn't break this one since you don't know how to pronounce The Name.

Quote:
"And they adored the dragon, which gave power to the beast: and they adored the beast, saying: Who is like to the beast? and who shall be able to fight with him? And there was given to him a mouth speaking great things, and blasphemies: and power was given to him to do two and forty months. And he opened his mouth unto blasphemies against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven." (Apocalypse 13:4-6)
"For Christ did not please himself, but as it is written: The reproaches of them that reproached thee, fell upon me." (Romans 15:3)
"John answered him saying: Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, who followeth not us, and we forbade him. But Jesus said: Do not forbid him. For there is no man that doth a miracle in my name, and can soon speak ill of me. For he that is not against you, if for you. For whosoever shall give you to drink a cup of water in my name, because you belong to Christ: amen I say to you, he shall not lose his reward." (St. Mark 9:37-40)
"O generation of vipers, how can you speak good things, whereas you are evil? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of a good treasure bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of an evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment. For by words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." (St. Matthew 12:34-37)
"The Jews therefore answered, and said to him: Do not we say well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? Jesus answered: I have not a devil: but I honour my Father, and you have dishonoured me. But I seek not my own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth." (St. John 8:48-50)
"Woe to you that call evil good, and good evil: that put darkness for light, and light for darkness: that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter." (Isaias 5:20)
What do these passages have to do with using The Name for an evil purpose or idly?
Quote:
3rd Commandment:

"Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day. Six days shalt thou labour, and shalt do all thy works. But on the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: thou shalt do no work in it, thou nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy beast, nor the stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them, and rested on the seventh day: therefore the Lord blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it." (Exodus 20:8-11) "Observe the day of the sabbath, to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee. Six days shalt thou labour, and shalt do all thy works. The seventh is the day of the sabbath, that is, the rest of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not do any work therein, thou nor thy manservant, nor thy ox, nor thy ***, nor any of thy beasts, nor the stranger that is within thy gates: that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest, even as thyself. Remember that thou also didst serve in Egypt, and the Lord thy God brought thee out from thence with a strong hand, and a stretched out arm. Therefore hath he commanded thee that thou shouldst observe the sabbath day." (Deut. 5:12-15)
Do you observe the Sabbath? No, you do not. Indeed the tradition of your church is so against the Sabbath, it followed Constantine rule that made Sunday the official day of worship. From Wikipedia:

On March 7, 321, the Roman Emperor Constantine issued a decree making Sunday a day of rest from labor, stating:[23]
All judges and city people and the craftsmen shall rest upon the venerable day of the sun. Country people, however, may freely attend to the cultivation of the fields, because it frequently happens that no other days are better adapted for planting the grain in the furrows or the vines in trenches. So that the advantage given by heavenly providence may not for the occasion of a short time perish.


The man was not even baptized but he set the policy! Now honestly, this commandment doesn't apply to Gentiles -- the Torah says that it was given to Israel as a present. So it's no big deal to me what day if any people observe; but why appeal to this idea of the Sabbath when you don't observe it? It shows to what extremes you go to try to prove something.
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"And he that sat on the throne, said: Behold, I make all things new." (Apocalypse 21:5)

"If then any be in Christ a new creature, the old things are passed away, behold all things are made new." (2 Cor. 5:17)

"But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ; by whom the world is crucified to me, and I to the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature." (Gal. 6:14-15)

"For we are buried together with him by baptism into death; that as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life." (Romans 6:4)

"Thou shalt send forth thy spirit, and they shall be created: and thou shalt renew the face of the earth." (Psalms 103:30)

" 7 Wherefore, as the Holy Ghost saith: *To-day, if you shall hear his voice,

8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the desert,

9 Where your fathers tempted me, proved, and saw my works,

10 Forty years: For which cause I was offended with this generation, and I said: They always err in heart. And they have not known my ways,

11 As I have sworn in my wrath: If they shall enter into my rest.

12 Take heed, brethren, lest perhaps there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, to depart from the living God:

13 But exhort one another every day, whilst to-day is named: lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

14 For we are made partakers of Christ: yet so if we hold the beginning of his substance firm unto the end.

15 While it is said: To-day, if you shall hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in that provocation.

16 For some who heard did provoke: but not all who came out of Egypt by Moses.

17 And with whom was he offended forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, *whose carcasses fell in the desert?

18 And to whom did he swear that they should not enter into his rest: but to them that believed not.

19 And we see that they could not enter in, because of unbelief.

1 Let us, therefore, fear, lest perhaps forsaking the promise of entering into his rest, any of you be thought to be wanting.

2 For to us also it hath been declared as well as to them, but the word of hearing did not profit them, not being mixed with the faith of those things which they heard.

3 For we, who have believed, shall enter into rest; as he said: *As I have sworn in my wrath: If they shall enter into my rest: and this when the works from the foundation of the world were finished.

4 For in a certain place he spoke of the seventh day thus: *And God rested the seventh day from all his works.

5 And in this place again: If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing then it remaineth that some are to enter into it, and they, to whom it was first preached, did not enter in because of unbelief:

7 Again he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To-day, after so long a time, as it is above said: *To-day, if you shall hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, he would never have afterwards spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth, therefore, a rest for the people of God.

10 For he who is entered into his rest: he also hath rested from his works, as God from his.

11 Let us hasten, therefore, to enter into that rest: lest any man fall into the same example of unbelief.

12 For the word of God is living and effectual, and more penetrating than any two-edged sword: and reaching unto the division of the soul and the spirit, of the joints also, and the marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

13 *Neither is there any creature invisible in his sight: but all things are naked and open to the eyes of him, to whom our speech is." (Hebrews 3:7-16 HEBREWS - Chapter 3 ; 4:1-13 HEBREWS - Chapter 4 )[/indent]
I wonder why you don't observe the Sabbath after quoting all those passages.

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As we can see, the first commandment is focused on the FORM of God, ... how there is ONE DIVINE BEING, One True God, One Divine Substance. ... The Father is Being Personified.
It doesn't mention "form." God has no form. It also doesn't use the word "person." You are making things up to fit your theory of things.

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As we can see, the Name of the Lord is not to be profaned by unworthy speech. The fact that God has a Name shows that He is a Personal God. ... And the Word of God is His Only Son, Jesus Christ. He is the Fullness of God's Self-Communication to man. The Word is the Self-Knowledge of God Personified.
What a lot of fallacious reasoning. Objects have names. It's also fascinating to me that you say ignore the fact that there are "ten words" in what you call the ten commandments -- but then you talk about "the Word of God." Look "dabar" up.

Quote:
As we can see, the Holy Day of Rest is pointing to the New Creation and the New Exodus in Christ and His Resurrection from the Dead ON THE FIRST DAY of the week.
So first three equals one, and now the seventh day equals the first day also? Mighty strange math to me.

Quote:
The Holy Spirit seeks to form in us a new heart that will listen to the Word of God by Faith and Obedience. ... Works have to do with the Will, ... and the Holy Spirit is the Will of God (which is LOVE) Personified.
Not a concrete noun in that whole paragraph. Just a bunch of abstract nouns tossed together. One can make one's head spin with so many abstract nouns jiggling around.

Please give it a rest. If you believe in the trinity, fine. Why is it so important to you to keep talking about it? Are you trying to convince others? I don't think so -- you should know by now this kind of conversation goes nowhere. That leaves me thinking you're writing to try to convince yourself.
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  #9  
Old 06-07-2013, 03:59 PM
AHJE's Avatar
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Default Re: The 1st Three Commandments and the TRINITY . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuliano View Post
Why do you persist in trying to convince others of your views? Let me be a little more frank and forceful.
If you don't believe ... no one is forcing you.

Quote:
First of all, it's not the "Ten Commandments." It's the Decalogue -- the ten sayings or ten words. There are 613 commandments. Don't take my word for it -- look it up in the Hebrew, the word dabar means "word" or "saying." The KJV wrongly translated it as "commandment" and others followed suit.
I can say it either way 10 Commandments OR Decalogue.

Christ has revealed the New Law in the New Covenant and I don't have to observe what is now obsolete. Now I can enjoy a bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich, as it is Kosher for the New People of God, the New Israel, the Circumcision, and the fulfilled Jews, the sons of Abraham, who are so numerous that you cannot count us.




Quote:
Did God bring you and your fathers out of Egypt?
Yes. That is correct. This "bringing out of Egypt" and house of bondage pointed to the New Exodus revealed in the Resurrection and communicated through Holy Baptism.

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How does this apply to you then?
Every page of the Bible applies to me as it applies to all of the New People of God.

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But at any rate, the word "translated" as "strange" should read "other." And your trinity has three Gods.
Not my Trinity. You must be mistaken.

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So you're breaking this one.
We'll find out at the Second Coming who is breaking what, my friend.

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You do not have the same God as the Jews.
Excuse me, ... I am a Jew in the New and Everlasting Covenant. I'm just not a "talmudic Jew". I don't think you and I agree on what a Jew is. To me it suffices that to JESUS I am a Jew. I don't have to be considered a Jew by you or any other talmudic Jew. My Mother Miriam, Full of Grace, is Jewish and the Messiah was born a Jew and I have been grafted into His Body, the Church.

Quote:
You have some variation; and I tell you what Jesus told the woman at the well, "You worship you know not what." Jews know what God is, and if you disagree with them, you're wrong. Jesus said that.
You mean the talmudic Jews don't worship the God that came from them, Jesus Christ. "No one who denies the Son has the Father ... " (1 St. John 2:23)

In other words, ... once the Son is revealed in the fullness of time, if you reject Him, ... you reject both Him and the Father ... FOR they are ONE in Substance.




Quote:
Do you do this? Yes, you do. Lucky for you, this was given to Israel and not to the Gentiles.
Its interesting to me how you cut off the quote just before it says "You shall not adore them nor serve them". This is what God prohibited ... Idolatry. A statue does not, in itself, constitute an idol. If this were the case, God would not have commanded Moses to make statues of cherubim and another of a snake.

God is not against three dimensional representations of created things so long as these created things are not objects of adoration and worship.



Quote:
Lots of fanciful reasoning to deny the simple idea that God is One when you want to say God is three.
God is one in Nature. There is ONE Divine Substance. No one has ever seen the Form of God so don't make any graven image of Him.

God is Three in Persons. The Most Holy and Undivided Trinity fulfills the expression that God is ECHAD, "UNITY".

Quote:
And you contrive to say Jesus is Divine, and it's fine to have images of him. What are you revering -- his physical body?
When God the Son took Flesh, He gave us a new Economy of Images. He is the Image of the Invisible God.

We worship Jesus and give due veneration to Sacred Images of Him.



Quote:
You couldn't break this one since you don't know how to pronounce The Name.
You mean my Blessed God Yahweh? I just did in english.

Quote:
What do these passages have to do with using The Name for an evil purpose or idly?
This Second Commandment governs how you speak of sacred things or persons, Mary, the Church, Sacraments, the Saints etc.

Notice how this is connected to WORDS uttered. Jesus is the WORD Himself. It brings to mind the power of speech, ultimately the Father's One Utterance, His Only Begotten Son from all Eternity, the 2nd Person of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity.


Quote:
Do you observe the Sabbath? No, you do not. Indeed the tradition of your church is so against the Sabbath, it followed Constantine rule that made Sunday the official day of worship. From Wikipedia:

On March 7, 321, the Roman Emperor Constantine issued a decree making Sunday a day of rest from labor, stating:[23]
All judges and city people and the craftsmen shall rest upon the venerable day of the sun. Country people, however, may freely attend to the cultivation of the fields, because it frequently happens that no other days are better adapted for planting the grain in the furrows or the vines in trenches. So that the advantage given by heavenly providence may not for the occasion of a short time perish.


The man was not even baptized but he set the policy! Now honestly, this commandment doesn't apply to Gentiles -- the Torah says that it was given to Israel as a present. So it's no big deal to me what day if any people observe; but why appeal to this idea of the Sabbath when you don't observe it? It shows to what extremes you go to try to prove something.
Jesus said He came not to abolish the law but to be its FULFILLMENT. He completes the Law, and perfects it by His Love of the Father. The Love of the Father and the Son is the Person of the Holy Spirit. Why does the Father Love the Son? According to Jesus it is because He lays down His Life in order to take it up again [in the Glorious Resurrection on Sunday]. (St. John 10:17) Again, the Resurrection of Jesus IN the Spirit is the New Creation and the New Exodus all in one. Therefore, the Lord's Day is the moral fulfillment of the old and obsolete commandment of the sabbath on saturday. Jesus is Himself Lord of the sabbath. Sunday is now the day of rest. Maybe someone should do a work of Mercy and inform the talmudic Jews of this very important Liturgical reality.

Quote:
I wonder why you don't observe the Sabbath after quoting all those passages.
I do ... on the Lord's Day.
It is in the Resurrection that Jesus opens the gates of the Kingdom ... where the saved will enjoy eternal rest. On Sunday Mass we get a foretaste of this eternal rest in the Holy Spirit.





Quote:
It doesn't mention "form." God has no form.
What does Philippians 2:6 say? "though he was in the FORM of God", ... this means the very NATURE of God.

Quote:
It also doesn't use the word "person." You are making things up to fit your theory of things.
Do you now deny that God is a Personal God? And that He is BEING Personified, the great "I AM"?


Quote:
What a lot of fallacious reasoning. Objects have names. It's also fascinating to me that you say ignore the fact that there are "ten words" in what you call the ten commandments -- but then you talk about "the Word of God." Look "dabar" up.
I don't have to look it up, ... I took Hebrew in College. I know what this word means. If Being can be Personified in the Father why can't the WORD/Knowledge be Personified in the Son?

Quote:
So first three equals one, and now the seventh day equals the first day also? Mighty strange math to me.
This verse comes to mind, St. John 8:43.


Quote:
Not a concrete noun in that whole paragraph. Just a bunch of abstract nouns tossed together. One can make one's head spin with so many abstract nouns jiggling around.

Please give it a rest. If you believe in the trinity, fine. Why is it so important to you to keep talking about it? Are you trying to convince others? I don't think so -- you should know by now this kind of conversation goes nowhere. That leaves me thinking you're writing to try to convince yourself.
What else are we to discuss in the Theology section if not things like these? I thank God that He lets me contemplate the Mystery of the Holy Trinity from different angles.

God bless you.
__________________
_______________________________


"... There is nothing more beautiful than to be surprised by the Gospel, by the encounter with Christ. There is nothing more beautiful than to know Him and to speak to others of our friendship with Him." (Pope Benedict XVI) [Homily of His Holiness, Sunday, April 24th 2005]

GOD MADE MARY
NE - CES - SARY.


When Jesus, the Living Bread, says IS He means IS.

Last edited by AHJE : 06-07-2013 at 04:04 PM.
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  #10  
Old 06-07-2013, 05:40 PM
Giuliano's Avatar
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 5,242
Default Re: The 1st Three Commandments and the TRINITY . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by AHJE View Post
If you don't believe ... no one is forcing you.
What is your goal then of all these threads about the trinity if not to convert others to your way of thinking?
Quote:
I can say it either way 10 Commandments OR Decalogue.
We can say anything. The question is what does the Bible say?

Quote:
Christ has revealed the New Law in the New Covenant and I don't have to observe what is now obsolete. Now I can enjoy a bacon, egg, and cheese sandwich, as it is Kosher for the New People of God, the New Israel, the Circumcision, and the fulfilled Jews, the sons of Abraham, who are so numerous that you cannot count us.
Why base your "truths" then on things you don't think apply to you?
Quote:
Yes. That is correct. This "bringing out of Egypt" and house of bondage pointed to the New Exodus revealed in the Resurrection and communicated through Holy Baptism.
Your fathers were never in Egypt, and the Law of Moses does not apply to you and never did apply to Gentiles.

Quote:
Every page of the Bible applies to me as it applies to all of the New People of God.
Then get circumcised and live as a Jew.

Quote:
Quote:
But at any rate, the word "translated" as "strange" should read "other." And your trinity has three Gods.
Not my Trinity. You must be mistaken.
Three does not equal one no matter how hard you try to say it can.

Quote:
Quote: So you're breaking this one.

We'll find out at the Second Coming who is breaking what, my friend.

Quote: You do not have the same God as the Jews.

Excuse me, ... I am a Jew in the New and Everlasting Covenant.
God didn't change. God doesn't change. Moses and Jesus agree.

John 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Jesus did not tell her he was God. He revealed to her he was the Messiah. Jews say Messiah is a man, and the woman at the well said that too.

28 The woman then left her waterpot, and went her way into the city, and saith to the men,
29 Come, see a man, which told me all things that ever I did: is not this the Christ?

Quote:
I'm just not a "talmudic Jew". I don't think you and I agree on what a Jew is. To me it suffices that to JESUS I am a Jew. I don't have to be considered a Jew by you or any other talmudic Jew. My Mother Miriam, Full of Grace, is Jewish and the Messiah was born a Jew and I have been grafted into His Body, the Church.
If you have the wrong God, I don't know if you have been totally grafted in. You do not worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Not only are you not a Jew, your church has persecuted the Jews, drawing down a curse on it.

Quote:
Quote: You have some variation; and I tell you what Jesus told the woman at the well, "You worship you know not what." Jews know what God is, and if you disagree with them, you're wrong. Jesus said that.

You mean the talmudic Jews don't worship the God that came from them, Jesus Christ. "No one who denies the Son has the Father ... " (1 St. John 2:23)

In other words, ... once the Son is revealed in the fullness of time, if you reject Him, ... you reject both Him and the Father ... FOR they are ONE in Substance.
And if you are worshiping Jesus as God and he's not, then what? Do you have either the Son or the Father?
Quote:
Quote: Do you do this? Yes, you do. Lucky for you, this was given to Israel and not to the Gentiles.

Its interesting to me how you cut off the quote just before it says "You shall not adore them nor serve them". This is what God prohibited ... Idolatry. A statue does not, in itself, constitute an idol. If this were the case, God would not have commanded Moses to make statues of cherubim and another of a snake.
Wrong again. The prohibition is given to the people. The Jews as a people were told not to have any statues of any kind lest they fall into idolatry. They could not see the cherubim on the ark.

Speaking of the serpent? Jesus compared himself to it. How apt. Moses made it for the healing of the people, and later people came to worship it as a god. Jesus was lifted up on the cross for the healing of the people, and again people began to worship him as a god.

Quote:
God is not against three dimensional representations of created things so long as these created things are not objects of adoration and worship.
Did I say this was binding on Gentiles? If you are a Jew, it is binding. If you are going to base your theology on it, why not apply it? You want to throw out the baby and keep the bath water?
Quote:
God is one in Nature. There is ONE Divine Substance. No one has ever seen the Form of God so don't make any graven image of Him.

God is Three in Persons. The Most Holy and Undivided Trinity fulfills the expression that God is ECHAD, "UNITY".
Mere assertions.
Quote:
Quote: And you contrive to say Jesus is Divine, and it's fine to have images of him. What are you revering -- his physical body?

When God the Son took Flesh, He gave us a new Economy of Images. He is the Image of the Invisible God.

We worship Jesus and give due veneration to Sacred Images of Him.
Do you realize how silly "image" of the "invisible" sounds?
Quote:
Quote: You couldn't break this one since you don't know how to pronounce The Name.

You mean my Blessed God Yahweh? I just did in english.
You don't know how to pronounce it. That's an idle guess.

Quote:
Quote: What do these passages have to do with using The Name for an evil purpose or idly?

This Second Commandment governs how you speak of sacred things or persons, Mary, the Church, Sacraments, the Saints etc.
What silliness. It says not to use The Name in vain. That's the reason the Jewish leaders began to conceal how it was pronounced.

Quote:
Notice how this is connected to WORDS uttered. Jesus is the WORD Himself. It brings to mind the power of speech, ultimately the Father's One Utterance, His Only Begotten Son from all Eternity, the 2nd Person of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity.
More empty assertions based on man's tradition.
Quote:
Jesus said He came not to abolish the law but to be its FULFILLMENT. He completes the Law, and perfects it by His Love of the Father.
You have no idea what he meant by that. Jews would know since Jesus was teaching standard Jewish theology there.

Quote:
The Love of the Father and the Son is the Person of the Holy Spirit. Why does the Father Love the Son? According to Jesus it is because He lays down His Life in order to take it up again [in the Glorious Resurrection on Sunday]. (St. John 10:17) Again, the Resurrection of Jesus IN the Spirit is the New Creation and the New Exodus all in one. Therefore, the Lord's Day is the moral fulfillment of the old and obsolete commandment of the sabbath on saturday. Jesus is Himself Lord of the sabbath. Sunday is now the day of rest. Maybe someone should do a work of Mercy and inform the talmudic Jews of this very important Liturgical reality.
So now "not abolish" means "abolish." As incredible as three equals one.

Quote:
Quote: I wonder why you don't observe the Sabbath after quoting all those passages.

I do ... on the Lord's Day.
It is in the Resurrection that Jesus opens the gates of the Kingdom ... where the saved will enjoy eternal rest. On Sunday Mass we get a foretaste of this eternal rest in the Holy Spirit.
Sunday is not the Sabbath. Get real.
Quote:
Quote: It doesn't mention "form." God has no form.

What does Philippians 2:6 say? "though he was in the FORM of God", ... this means the very NATURE of God.
That's figurative. You have to have the right idea about God to understand it just as you must to understand that God did not use a "finger" to write the Decalogue. God doesn't have a "finger."

Quote:
Quote: It also doesn't use the word "person." You are making things up to fit your theory of things.

Do you now deny that God is a Personal God? And that He is BEING Personified, the great "I AM"?
God is what He is. "I Am That I Am." Jesus referred to God as a "what." "We know what we worship." No, God is not a "person" the way we are persons. Indeed this fanciful modern idea is based on a poor understanding of the original word "persona" used by Catholic theologians.

Quote:
I don't have to look it up, ... I took Hebrew in College. I know what this word means. If Being can be Personified in the Father why can't the WORD/Knowledge be Personified in the Son?
You can personify almost anything but it doesn't make it so. Do you seriously believe in some goddess named Justice because people have imagined justice could be a person? Abstract ideas are not persons. Abstract ideas exist in our minds, not as people or persons in reality.

Quote:
Quote: So first three equals one, and now the seventh day equals the first day also? Mighty strange math to me.

This verse comes to mind, St. John 8:43.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Ah, but you deny that Jesus proceeded from the Father as one act that happened and was finished. To you, it's something that never started and never ended. That statement is really fairly clear -- a child could understand it. But start adding imaginary ideas about the eternal nature of the Son in the trinity, and it's reduced to nonsense. It's not that Jesus proceeded from God -- no, that's not good enough. It's got to be eternally proceeding. Adding an incomprehensible level of thought to what should be easy to understand.
Quote:
What else are we to discuss in the Theology section if not things like these? I thank God that He lets me contemplate the Mystery of the Holy Trinity from different angles.
The trinity is the only thing you can think about?

I see no profit in it. How has contemplating this helped you in your life? What good deeds has it inspired? Good doctrine should lead to a better life and good deeds.

The idea of the trinity did start the divisions in the church. Remember that. That was when the ugly spirit of persecuting others entered the church when Bishops vilified other Bishops. Every council they had about the trinity resulted in new fractures most of which remain to this day. They did not establish unity.
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