True2Ourselves
Already a member? login
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
  
+
Register FAQ A-Z directory Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Is Rev. 12 a RECAPITULATION of Rev. 11? Is Mary the Ark of the Covenant?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-12-2013, 01:39 AM
AHJE's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,014
Question Is Rev. 12 a RECAPITULATION of Rev. 11? Is Mary the Ark of the Covenant?

"And the temple of God was opened in heaven: and the ark of his testament was seen in his temple, and there were lightnings, and voices, and an earthquake, and great hail." (Apocalypse 11:19, DRB)

"Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm." (Revelation 11:19, NABRE)


Do you recall how Pharaoh had a twofold dream and how it was given to Joseph by God the true interpretation of his dream ... and how his twofold dream were ONE in meaning? There was a kind of repetition of the same dream but there was only one meaning being conveyed by both, ... this is called RECAPITULATION.

Is the following (in Rev. 12) a recapitulation of the preceding verse in Rev. 11?

"AND a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered. And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads, and ten horns: and on his heads seven diadems: And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered; that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that there they should feed her a thousand two hundred sixty days. And there was a great battle in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels: And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven. And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thown down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: because the accuser of our brethren is cast forth, who accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of the testimony, and they loved not their lives unto death. Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you that dwell therein. Woe to the earth, and to the sea, because the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. ..." (Apoc. 12:1-12)


Take a look at Rev. 11:19 once again ... do you see a recapitulation?

Remember what Jesus said, "... I saw Satan like lightning falling from heaven." (St. Luke 10:18)

Remember also, "Now is the judgment of the world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all things to myself. (Now this he said, signifying what death he should die.)" (St. John 12:31-33)

Remember that there was an earthquake after Jesus' death!

Could the peals of thunder, the "voices", be the time of Judgment when God cast the devil and his angels out of heaven? Are these the voices of their blasphemies against God, His Christ, and His Holy Mother?

Could the Ark of the Covenant (which contained 3 prefigurements of Jesus Christ) be the Woman bearing the Christ child? Could it be the Blessed Virgin Mary, Full of Grace, Clothed with the Righteousness of Jesus Christ?

"For the Lord himself shall come down from heaven with commandment, and with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead who are in Christ, shall rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air, and so shall we be always with the Lord. ..." (1 Thes. 4:15-16)

This seems to be a recapitulation of the Resurrection and Ascension of our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ! The faithful will have a share in the Lord's Glorification on the Last Day!


Peace be with you.


A. H. J. E.

After the Heart of Jesus Evangelist
__________________
_______________________________


"... There is nothing more beautiful than to be surprised by the Gospel, by the encounter with Christ. There is nothing more beautiful than to know Him and to speak to others of our friendship with Him." (Pope Benedict XVI) [Homily of His Holiness, Sunday, April 24th 2005]

GOD MADE MARY
NE - CES - SARY.


When Jesus, the Living Bread, says IS He means IS.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-12-2013, 05:32 PM
Lemuel's Avatar
Knight of the Forum
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 931
Default Re: Is Rev. 12 a RECAPITULATION of Rev. 11? Is Mary the Ark of the Covenant?

No. Mary was/is not the Ark of the Covenant. What is the purpose of the Ark of the Covenant? Why was it constructed? Does it still exist?
__________________
God, be merciful to me!
Help Thou my unbelief!
Let me see in Him that Thou would have me see in my fellow man.
Let me see in my brother that I see in Him whom I worship.

John 7:19
Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law?

Remember, always, the Angels wish...Selah!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-22-2013, 06:29 AM
clarkthompson's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 176
Default Re: Is Rev. 12 a RECAPITULATION of Rev. 11? Is Mary the Ark of the Covenant?

I believe the ark still exists but it a small thing compared to Christ's return
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-30-2013, 07:32 AM
JoJo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 193
Default Re: Is Rev. 12 a RECAPITULATION of Rev. 11? Is Mary the Ark of the Covenant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AHJE View Post
[b][color="#000000"][SIZE=3

The scripture didn’t “VOICES”, meaning more than one, but “VOICE” ,meaning one. The voice from Heaven as stated in ,(John 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again). was the voice of the Almighty God Jehovah. So the voice WASN’T demons being cast out. and why do many believe JUST because Mary was picked to carry the baby Jesus. She’s NOW holds a high place in Heaven. and to be prayed to as many does? Jesus NEVER taught one should pray to ANYONE, NOT even himself, BUT his Father ,(Matt. 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name).


There’s NO punishment, on ANYONE who speaks ill against Mary or Jesus, ONLY his Father’s Power, (his Holy Spirit, Matt. 12:31,2). Though MANY believe the HS is a being, do research, it’s NOT, again it’s Jehovah God power, to make anything happen. (Acts 7:55,56 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God), Stephen seen into Heaven because God wanted him to, NOT because there was a spirit being helping him to.


here …(Acts 11:24 For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord, (Barnabas was a true servants of God, he allowed himself to be full of God’s HS. This is why he was a good man, but also a faithful servant. There’s NO being helping him to be this person). And here…(2Pet. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost). There WASN’T a third being of a “trinity” who helped men speak Jehovah’s words, it was God’s will for them to do so.


And the ark of the covenant didn’t have any “prefigurements of Jesus”. The bible shows the Ark held the ten commandments, 1Kig. 8:9), This was a sacred item. Though others believe items like manna and Aaron’s staff was in it too, that’s not true either. Also ,(1Thess. 4:15-17 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord).


Paul knows there’s a certain amount going to Heaven ,which is 144,000 ,(Rev. 7:4 and Rev. 14:1-4). Regardless of what many ministers are teaching. Paul also knows by using the word ,” remain”, (kjv), that IF!.. they continually to follow Jesus and do his Father’s will ,( Matt. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven), they will be in Heaven with Jesus and Jehovah God. those who were dead, from the beginning of time, who had that Heavenly calling. Are ALREADY in Heaven . they went there right after Jesus did, ( Matt. 27:50-53). Understand, there were MANY followers of Jesus, including his Mother. But ONLY the Apostles had seen Jesus ascend to Heaven, NO ONE ELSE DID. And it will be in like manner that those who ONLY!... Have that Heavenly calling will do. peace
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-30-2013, 12:37 PM
HOLLAND's Avatar
Knights of the Forum
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,428
Default Re: Is Rev. 12 a RECAPITULATION of Rev. 11? Is Mary the Ark of the Covenant?

I think of this as a strange thread . . .

In vulgar terms, a woman's vulva is referred to as a "box' . . . Many women do not take kindly to this usage . . .

Now, Mary's "box" is referred to as the "Ark of the Covenant" . . .

I do not understand the piety behind this thread . . .



Peace be with you!

[Still connectivity and system issues . . . will come online when I can.]
__________________
The humble, meek, merciful, just, pious and devout souls are everywhere of one religion; and when death has taken off the mask, they will know one another though the divers liveries they wear here make them strangers.
William Penn (1644-1718) from Some Fruits of Solitude (1718)
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-30-2013, 02:42 PM
Lookinforacity's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 2,797
Default Re: Is Rev. 12 a RECAPITULATION of Rev. 11? Is Mary the Ark of the Covenant?

The answer is "NO" and this is exactly the type of thing, which makes people end up in deception.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-30-2013, 09:52 PM
Suspended for Review
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,856
Default Re: Is Rev. 12 a RECAPITULATION of Rev. 11? Is Mary the Ark of the Covenant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AHJE View Post
"AND a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered.
I don't know if I can agree if this represents Mary.
The painful birth might suggest this woman was of sin going on what Genesis 3:16 portrays:

16 To the woman he said,

“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labour you will give birth to children.


I expect the birth of Christ would be rather painless for Mary under grace and without sin.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-30-2013, 11:15 PM
AHJE's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,014
Default Re: Is Rev. 12 a RECAPITULATION of Rev. 11? Is Mary the Ark of the Covenant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinderAsh View Post
I don't know if I can agree if this represents Mary.
The painful birth might suggest this woman was of sin going on what Genesis 3:16 portrays:

16 To the woman he said,

“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labour you will give birth to children.


I expect the birth of Christ would be rather painless for Mary under grace and without sin.
The pain of Mary's giving birth was not in the physical order but in the spiritual ... a sword, Simeon prophesied, would pierce the soul of Mary so that the thoughts and hearts of many would be revealed. ... This pain of Mary is due to her giving birth to the many children of God in the order of grace ... Jesus said to Mary "Behold thy son" ... and to John "Behold thy Mother."

Was it not a SWORD in her soul for Mary to watch her Only Son die on the cross for our Redemption? She shared in that redemption by grace!

Now, ... she is our Mother according to the Word of Jesus Christ!


God bless you.
__________________
_______________________________


"... There is nothing more beautiful than to be surprised by the Gospel, by the encounter with Christ. There is nothing more beautiful than to know Him and to speak to others of our friendship with Him." (Pope Benedict XVI) [Homily of His Holiness, Sunday, April 24th 2005]

GOD MADE MARY
NE - CES - SARY.


When Jesus, the Living Bread, says IS He means IS.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-02-2013, 10:35 PM
thelowlyfisherman's Avatar
Knight of the Forum
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,497
Default Re: Is Rev. 12 a RECAPITULATION of Rev. 11? Is Mary the Ark of the Covenant?

Jesus carries the manna from heaven. He is the Ark of the New Covenant.
__________________
Matthew 23:12:
Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-02-2013, 10:49 PM
AHJE's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,014
Default Re: Is Rev. 12 a RECAPITULATION of Rev. 11? Is Mary the Ark of the Covenant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelowlyfisherman View Post
Jesus carries the manna from heaven. He is the Ark of the New Covenant.
Huh, ... ?

Jesus is Himself the Manna come down from Heaven, don't you agree?
__________________
_______________________________


"... There is nothing more beautiful than to be surprised by the Gospel, by the encounter with Christ. There is nothing more beautiful than to know Him and to speak to others of our friendship with Him." (Pope Benedict XVI) [Homily of His Holiness, Sunday, April 24th 2005]

GOD MADE MARY
NE - CES - SARY.


When Jesus, the Living Bread, says IS He means IS.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why is the Virgin Mary called the Ark of the New Covenant? matt041187 Theology 53 05-17-2014 04:42 AM
The Law or Old Covenant was set aside , WHEN ?? danp Theology 52 01-29-2011 04:16 PM
What of The NEW Covenant, and The New Covenant "Jew"(Brethren of The Messiah)? Derowr Christianity & Other Religions 0 01-04-2010 08:15 PM
A New Covenant doinghiswill Bible Chat 13 09-01-2009 08:21 PM
The new covenant colin Theology 13 08-06-2009 01:10 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:25 AM.


true2ourselves
 
 
 

Flashcoms

You need to upgrade your Flash Player.

Version 8 or higher is required.

download from http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29