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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Water baptism in Jesus' name or in the name of the Father, Son and ....

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Old 01-11-2013, 07:07 PM
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Default Water baptism in Jesus' name or in the name of the Father, Son and ....

The confusion about water baptism comes from Matt. 28:19. However there should not be any. The scripture is clear: Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version)
17 And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

"Father" is not a name and neither is the title Holy Spirit. There is only one name under heaven by which men may be saved. That name is Jesus. No, I am NOT advocating "Jesus only". The Godhead is triune, but the name given for us to receive anything from God is Jesus.

The apostles certainly understood the name Jesus was talking about in Matthew 28:19 because this is what they said and did:
Acts 2:38 (New King James Version38Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 19:4-5 (New King James Version)
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

There is spiritual power to resist sin that you receive BY FAITH when you are baptized in Jesus' name by immersion, sometimes referred to as apostolic baptism. Because if you don't know this you can be baptized till you are 'pruny" and it will make no difference! You can only believe for what you know about. Circumcision and baptism are equivalent. Col 12:11-14. In Joshua 5 he circumcised them before the wars to take the land so they were in covenant and could win. It is the same for baptism for us when engaging in spiritual warfare. There will be open doors for the devil to oppress and stop us.

Mark 16:16-18 (New King James Version)
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they[a] will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

I am not teaching water baptism to be saved. One is saved when he receives Christ Romans 10:9-10. Water baptism in Jesus name by immersion of a person old enough to understand is the first act of obedience in the walk of salvation. Infant baptism is not in the Bible.

Here is the spiritual power over sin that few understand so they do not receive. Remember it is BY FAITH and if you do not know you cannot receive and believe. It is in Romans chapter 6, dead to sin, alive to Christ! This gives you spiritual power to resist sin, but only if you resist the sinful thoughts in Jesus' name the devil puts in your head to convince you that you are still a sinner. Please read all of Romans 6:1-14

There are big denominations that have not received this and as a result teach that the Christian has two natures, sinful and regenerate. This is nowhere taught in the Bible! In fact there are some denominations that teach and believe water baptism is necessary for salvation. Nothing could be further from the truth! See Romans 10:10-11 and Ephesians 2:8-9. A believer does not get baptized to be saved but as an act of obedience because he is saved.

I strongly recommend that you be baptized again. Any believer can do this. I have re-baptized several when they realized how important it really is. It is never legalism to do what Jesus says to do, the way He says to do it. He gives grace and protection in the meantime until we see the truth and do it.
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: Water baptism in Jesus' name or in the name of the Father, Son and ....

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Originally Posted by lesjude View Post
The confusion about water baptism comes from Matt. 28:19. However there should not be any. The scripture is clear: Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version)
17 And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

"Father" is not a name and neither is the title Holy Spirit. There is only one name under heaven by which men may be saved. That name is Jesus. No, I am NOT advocating "Jesus only". The Godhead is triune, but the name given for us to receive anything from God is Jesus..........

You have it totally backwards and wrong.... .....again.

For a sacrament to be valid, three things have to be present: the correct form, the correct matter, and the correct intention. With baptism, the correct intention is to do what the Church does, the correct matter is water, and the correct form is the baptizing "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19).

Unfortunately, not all Christians understand this. The "Jesus Only" Pentecostals, to name one group, baptize "in the name of Jesus." As a result, the baptisms of these groups are invalid; thus, they are not Christian, but pseudo-Christian. Of course, they also reject the Trinity. The "Jesus Only" Pentecostals claim that there is only a single person, Jesus, in the Godhead, a heresy known as Sabellianism.

"Jesus Only" Pentecostals note that Jesus told the apostles to baptize in "the name" (singular) of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, but they make the mistake of assuming that name is Jesus. There may not be a single name that Jesus has in mind at all, just as when we say, “Stop! In the name of the law,” we do not have a personal name in mind. If he did have such a name in mind, it may have been something such as God or Yahweh or Lord.

"Jesus Only" Pentecostals also argue that the New Testament talks about people being baptized "in the name of Jesus," but there are only four such passages (Acts 2:38, 8:16, 10:48, and 19:5). Further, these passages do not use the same designation in each place (some say "Lord Jesus," other say "Jesus Christ"), indicating that they were not technical formulas used in the baptism but simply descriptions by Luke. These four descriptions are not to be considered as a substitute for or contradiction of the divine command of the Lord Jesus Christ to: "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19).

Rather, the phrase "baptized in the name of Jesus" is simply Luke’s way to distinguish Christian baptism from other baptisms of the period, such as John’s baptism (which Luke mentions in Acts 1:5, 22, 10:37, 11:16, 13:24, 18:25, 19:4), Jewish proselyte baptism, and the baptisms of pagan cults (such as Mithraism). It also indicates the person into whose Mystical Body baptism incorporates us (Rom. 6:3).

The early Church Fathers, of course, agreed. As the following quotes illustrate, Christians have from the beginning recognized that the correct form of baptism requires one to baptize "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."



The Didache

"After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. If you have no living water, then baptize in other water, and if you are not able in cold, then in warm. If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Before baptism, let the one baptizing and the one to be baptized fast, as also any others who are able. Command the one who is to be baptized to fast beforehand for one or two days" (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).


Hippolytus

"When the one being baptized goes down into the water, the one baptizing him shall put his hand on him and speak thus: ‘Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty?’ And he that is being baptized shall say: ‘I believe.’ Then, having his hand imposed upon the head of the one to be baptized, he shall baptize him once. Then he shall say: ‘Do you believe in Christ Jesus . . . ?’ And when he says: ‘I believe,’ he is baptized again. Again shall he say: ‘Do you believe in the Holy Spirit and the holy Church and the resurrection of the flesh?’ The one being baptized then says: ‘I believe.’ And so he is baptized a third time" (The Apostolic Tradition 21 [A.D. 215]).


Tertullian

"After his resurrection he promises in a pledge to his disciples that he will send them the promise of his Father; and lastly, he commands them to baptize into the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, not into a unipersonal God. And indeed it is not once only, but three times, that we are immersed into the three persons, at each several mention of their names" (Against Praxeas 26 [A.D. 216]).


Origen

"The Lord himself told his disciples that they should baptize all peoples in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit . . . for indeed, legitimate baptism is had only in the name of the Trinity" (Commentary on Romans 5:8 [A.D. 248]).


Cyprian of Carthage

"He [Jesus] commanded them to baptize the Gentiles in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. How then do some say that though a Gentile be baptized . . . never mind how or of whom, so long as it be done in the name of Jesus Christ, the remission of sins can follow—when Christ himself commands the nations to be baptized in the full and united Trinity?" (Letters 73:18 [A.D. 253]).


Eusebius of Caesarea

"We believe . . . each of these to be and to exist: the Father, truly Father, and the Son, truly Son, and the Holy Ghost, truly Holy Ghost, as also our Lord, sending forth his disciples for the preaching, said, ‘Go teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.’ Concerning whom we confidently affirm that so we hold, and so we think, and so we have held aforetime, and we maintain this faith unto the death, anathematizing every godless heresy" (Letter to the People of His Diocese 3 [A.D. 323]).


Cyril of Jerusalem

"You were led by the hand to the holy pool of divine baptism, as Christ was carried from the cross to this sepulcher here before us [the tomb of Jesus at Jerusalem]. And each of you was asked if he believed in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. And you confessed that saving confession, and descended three times into the water, and again ascended, and in this there was suggested by a symbol the three days of Christ’s burial" (Catechetical Lectures 20:4 [A.D. 350]).


Athanasius

"And the whole faith is summed up, and secured in this, that a Trinity should ever be preserved, as we read in the Gospel, ‘Go ye and baptize all the nations in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost’ (Matt. 28:19). And entire and perfect is the number of the Trinity (On the Councils of Arminum and Seleucia 2:28 [A.D. 361]).


Basil the Great

"The Holy Spirit, too, is numbered with the Father and the Son, because he is above creation, and is ranked as we are taught by the words of the Lord in the Gospel, ‘Go and baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.’ He who, on the contrary, places the Spirit before the Son, or alleges him to be older than the Father, resists the ordinance of God, and is a stranger to the sound faith, since he fails to preserve the form of doxology which he has received, but adopts some newfangled device in order to be pleasing to men" (Letters 52:4 [A.D. 367]).


Ambrose of Milan

"Moreover, Christ himself says: ‘I and the Father are one.’ ‘One,’ said he, that there be no separation of power and nature; but again, ‘We are,’ that you may recognize Father and Son, forasmuch as the perfect Father is believed to have begotten the perfect Son, and the Father and the Son are one, not by confusion of person, but by unity of nature. We say, then, that there is one God, not two or three gods" (The Faith 1:1[9–10] [A.D. 379]).


Gregory of Nazianz

"But not yet perhaps is there formed upon your soul any writing good or bad; and you want to be written upon today. . . . I will baptize you and make you a disciple in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost; and these three have one common name, the Godhead. And you shall know, both by appearances and by words that you reject all ungodliness, and are united to all the Godhead" (Orations 40:45 [A.D. 380]).


Jerome

"[S]eeing that a man, baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, becomes a temple of the Lord, and that while the old abode is destroyed a new shrine is built for the Trinity, how can you say that sins can be remitted among the Arians without the coming of the Holy Ghost? How is a soul purged from its former stains which has not the Holy Ghost?" (Dialogue Against the Luciferians 6 [A.D. 382]).


Gregory of Nyssa

"And we, in receiving baptism . . . conceal ourselves in [the water] as the Savior did in the earth: and by doing this thrice we represent for ourselves that grace of the resurrection which was wrought in three days. And this we do, not receiving the sacrament in silence, but while there are spoken over us the names of the three sacred persons on whom we believed, in whom we also hope, from whom comes to us both the fact of our present and the fact of our future existence" (Sermon For the Day of Lights [A.D. 383]).


Augustine

"Baptism in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost has Christ for its authority, not any man, whoever he may be; and Christ is the truth, not any man" (On Baptism, Against the Donatists 4:24 [57] [A.D. 400]).

"O Lord our God, we believe in you, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. For the truth would not say, ‘Go, baptize all nations in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,’ unless you were a Trinity" (The Trinity 15:28[51] [A.D. 408]).
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: Water baptism in Jesus' name or in the name of the Father, Son and ....

I guess no one told Peter or even Paul:
Acts 2:38

New King James Version (NKJV)

38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
These were gentiles:
Acts 10:48

New King James Version (NKJV)

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
These were gentile believers as well:
Acts 19:5
New King James Version (NKJV)
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

It is always prudent to stick with what the Bible says even when "church fathers" disagree. The Apostolic Pentecostals are in heresy on the trinity and water baptism being necessary for salvation. They maybe borrowed the latter from another large denomination.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: Water baptism in Jesus' name or in the name of the Father, Son and ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by lesjude View Post
I guess no one told Peter or even Paul:
Acts 2:38

New King James Version (NKJV)

38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
These were gentiles:
Acts 10:48

New King James Version (NKJV)

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
These were gentile believers as well:
Acts 19:5
New King James Version (NKJV)
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

It is always prudent to stick with what the Bible says even when "church fathers" disagree. The Apostolic Pentecostals are in heresy on the trinity and water baptism being necessary for salvation. They maybe borrowed the latter from another large denomination.
You have to stop this falsehood. If we are looking at the only passage in all of Scripture that expressly states what "His name is," it is:
Revelation 19:13
"He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God."

But as we know, His name is also "Jesus Christ," "the Lord," "the Son of Man," and "the Son of God," and also simply, "the Son." Stop confusing people with your misleading word. To pretend that baptizing in the name of the Son is not precisely baptizing in His name as the passage says is leading people astray.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:32 PM
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Default Re: Water baptism in Jesus' name or in the name of the Father, Son and ....

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Originally Posted by Linsinbigler View Post
You have to stop this falsehood. If we are looking at the only passage in all of Scripture that expressly states what "His name is," it is:
Revelation 19:13
"He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God."

But as we know, His name is also "Jesus Christ," "the Lord," "the Son of Man," and "the Son of God," and also simply, "the Son." Stop confusing people with your misleading word. To pretend that baptizing in the name of the Son is not precisely baptizing in His name as the passage says is leading people astray.
I am only saying what Peter and Paul said and did. Your issue is with God's word not me.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version)
17 And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:53 AM
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Default Re: Water baptism in Jesus' name or in the name of the Father, Son and ....

Speaking only for myself, I would be frightened to be baptized again. I would quake in my shoes, wondering if I were offending God by doubting the efficacy of the first one. I would be afraid the Holy Spirit might desert me and a demon find me by being baptized again.

I know where my faith was and in whom I trusted when I was baptized. I will not doubt the validity of my baptism.
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:55 AM
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Default Re: Water baptism in Jesus' name or in the name of the Father, Son and ....

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Originally Posted by lesjude View Post
I am only saying what Peter and Paul said and did. Your issue is with God's word not me.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version)
17 And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.
Oh please, spare us. His issue is not with God's word, his issue is with your erroneous interpretation of God's word. It is you who are turning a blind eye to the scriptures that say the exact opposite of what you are saying.

And Colossians 3:17 has nothing to do with the Baptism issue so why are you posting it, other than to obfuscate your errors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuliano View Post
Speaking only for myself, I would be frightened to be baptized again. I would quake in my shoes, wondering if I were offending God by doubting the efficacy of the first one. I would be afraid the Holy Spirit might desert me and a demon find me by being baptized again.

I know where my faith was and in whom I trusted when I was baptized. I will not doubt the validity of my baptism.
I don't know if God would be offended if a person actually thought in his mind he was doing the right thing. Its just that getting baptised again is pointless. I am more offended at the ignorance of people who do it.

Getting baptised a second time is nothing more than getting wet.
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Old 01-12-2013, 05:55 AM
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Default Re: Water baptism in Jesus' name or in the name of the Father, Son and ....

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Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
I don't know if God would be offended if a person actually thought in his mind he was doing the right thing. Its just that getting baptised again is pointless. I am more offended at the ignorance of people who do it.

Getting baptised a second time is nothing more than getting wet.
I'm not sure. Pope Stephen was against rebaptism unless it was certain there was something defective about the first one. Today, I think if someone wants to convert to being a Catholic and if there's doubt if the first baptism is valid, I believe the person is given a "provisional baptism," -- something like "if you are not baptized, I baptize you. . . ."

The people who came along and said infant baptisms were not valid and rebaptized adults were doing something that seems quite dangerous to me.

You may be right if the person's heart was in the right place, no harm would come of it; but I'd be afraid to let someone devoted to schisms and controversies convince me my baptism was invalid and he should baptize me again.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:02 AM
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Default Re: Water baptism in Jesus' name or in the name of the Father, Son and ....

^ Pope Stephen was correct. I was merely addressing your concern about whether or not God would be offended. If someone is truly ignorant that what they are doing is wrong then God takes that into account. That's all I meant.

Now if YOU got re-baptised, God would be none too happy about THAT
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:38 AM
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Default Re: Water baptism in Jesus' name or in the name of the Father, Son and ....

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Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
^ Pope Stephen was correct. I was merely addressing your concern about whether or not God would be offended. If someone is truly ignorant that what they are doing is wrong then God takes that into account. That's all I meant.

Now if YOU got re-baptised, God would be none too happy about THAT
Agreed. I'm not too happy about people who want to get other people to doubt if their baptisms are valid. It doesn't seem right to me.
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