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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Can Dogma Develop?

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  #21  
Old 09-14-2013, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: Can Dogma Develop?

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Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
You should be smarter than that.

An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine
John Henry Newman

Newman Reader - Development of Christian Doctrine
That teaching by the Council of Basel/Florence would mean Paul sent himself and others people to eternal hell by circumcising them.

How can you claim it is developing a doctrine and not changing it when such a contradiction exists? That's like saying it's raining outside; and as I develop that thought, I say it must not be raining outside. Huh? Developing a thought doesn't mean contradicting it.
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  #22  
Old 10-26-2019, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: Can Dogma Develop?

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Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
You should be smarter than that.

An Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine
John Henry Newman

Newman Reader - Development of Christian Doctrine

Speaking of Cardinal Newman, he is now Saint John Henry Cardinal Newman

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/sai...l-newman-13805
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  #23  
Old 03-25-2020, 05:15 AM
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Default Re: Can Dogma Develop?

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Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
Speaking of Cardinal Newman, he is now Saint John Henry Cardinal Newman

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/sai...l-newman-13805
May be off topic, maybe not, but as the Apostle did say, through much tribulation we would enter. While JHN was quite verbose, should that ascension to being Cardinal, properly entail being plagued with the effort of distancing rife division? Upon reading his bio, his “developments” of “parting of friends” to avoid his concerns over corruption consumed an abnormal literary space. Just saying, ,as with S. Hahn, seems concrete examples given to us by history’s astute procurators of the Gospel who jump ship to Catholicism isn’t what I would call – clearly defined.

But, I would be interested in your understanding why this takes place, that is, by what you have observed?

.
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  #24  
Old 03-25-2020, 06:52 AM
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Default Re: Can Dogma Develop?

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May be off topic, maybe not, but as the Apostle did say, through much tribulation we would enter. While JHN was quite verbose, should that ascension to being Cardinal, properly entail being plagued with the effort of distancing rife division? Upon reading his bio, his “developments” of “parting of friends” to avoid his concerns over corruption consumed an abnormal literary space. Just saying, ,as with S. Hahn, seems concrete examples given to us by history’s astute procurators of the Gospel who jump ship to Catholicism isn’t what I would call – clearly defined.

But, I would be interested in your understanding why this takes place, that is, by what you have observed?

.

I am to understand that you actually read the book? Or just the bio?

I am more familiar with Hahn's “parting of friends” than Newman's. In Hahn's case, there were some staunch protestant close friends that simply could not accept his conversion. In fact, a lengthy search online of his name will lead you to websites that still call him all kinds of terrible names.

Yes, I think when you convert, especially in the direction towards Catholicism and not away from it, you will make enemies. It is much like today's politics. When a Democrat becomes a Trump supporter he or she will be labelled as the Devil, or at least a Nazi, homophobe, racist, bigoted sexist xenophobe. In fact, many protestants are very much like spiritual Democrats, no personal offense intended. What I mean is, ironically, the same tactics used by Democrats against Republicans are used by fundamentalists against Catholics, fake news, name-calling, smears and the rest. Oh I see it all the time. I say "ironically" because most fundamentalists are Republicans, and they seem to be blinded by the fact that they engage in the very same tactics that they deplore in politics.

Of course I am sure you disagree, and perhaps I digress.

I think their reasons for "jumping ship", or is it jumping off the little boat and back into the ship, are pretty well defined. It is always doctrinal, and also historical, but the historical is usually in the context of the doctrinal. Losing friends seems to be a necessary evil brought on by the so-called friends.
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  #25  
Old 03-25-2020, 09:18 AM
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Default Re: Can Dogma Develop?

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Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
I am to understand that you actually read the book? Or just the bio?

I am more familiar with Hahn's “parting of friends” than Newman's. In Hahn's case, there were some staunch protestant close friends that simply could not accept his conversion. In fact, a lengthy search online of his name will lead you to websites that still call him all kinds of terrible names.

Yes, I think when you convert, especially in the direction towards Catholicism and not away from it, you will make enemies. It is much like today's politics. When a Democrat becomes a Trump supporter he or she will be labelled as the Devil, or at least a Nazi, homophobe, racist, bigoted sexist xenophobe. In fact, many protestants are very much like spiritual Democrats, no personal offense intended. What I mean is, ironically, the same tactics used by Democrats against Republicans are used by fundamentalists against Catholics, fake news, name-calling, smears and the rest. Oh I see it all the time. I say "ironically" because most fundamentalists are Republicans, and they seem to be blinded by the fact that they engage in the very same tactics that they deplore in politics.

Of course I am sure you disagree, and perhaps I digress.

I think their reasons for "jumping ship", or is it jumping off the little boat and back into the ship, are pretty well defined. It is always doctrinal, and also historical, but the historical is usually in the context of the doctrinal. Losing friends seems to be a necessary evil brought on by the so-called friends.
Well, to answer your opening question: no on either, I didn’t read the book nor just his bio. Actually, resorting to your link and answer to former T2O-member Giuliano and his link in posts twentyone and twentytwo.

But since your reply appeared, I spotted a possible pinpoint why JHN concluded so heavily on (Anglican) Protestantism as he did with such observations as “its lack of restraint for private judgment”.

Rightly so, as you mentioned the loss of abiding friendships, formal colleagues, but thought you might latch onto my “abnormal” which was seeking a pinpoint reason for jumping that ship.
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to avoid his concerns over corruption consumed an abnormal literary space.
Beyond seeing that Catholic want of being numbered with the succession of Peter’s authority on down, it is rare that I would find concise remarks such as “lack of restraint”. Today, a remark of this nature directed at the Anglicanism comes as no surprise. From what you have posted of Dr Hahn, other things, I was unable to zero in on a specific cause for exiting by him.

Are there other things resembling the declaration of authority that serves the commoner adequate as solitarily, reasons to advance to Catholicism?

.
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  #26  
Old 03-25-2020, 02:16 PM
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Default Re: Can Dogma Develop?

I know that on the heels of Hahn's conversion, when he was a super popular speaker making the rounds to churches to speak, he and others like him were called a New Oxford Movement. The impetus for Hahn was his study specifically into "covenant" aspects of the Bible, plus his readings of the early fathers. Newman focused on the Development of Doctrine, authentic development verses false invention. This too led him to the early fathers. As he famously said, To be deep in history is to cease to be protestant.
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