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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Eph. 4:11,13

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  #11  
Old 11-15-2012, 06:23 PM
watchman1's Avatar
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Default Re: Eph. 4:11,13

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelowlyfisherman View Post
He is a Catholic Priest? I guess I am trying to figure out how you know he is a gifted minister? Did he tell you he was gifted? Did the Church tell you? Did the Holy Spirit tell you?
When Christ revealed himself to me 25 years ago, through what i know now to be a gifted minister. I had no knowledge of Christ, his Church, or the Holy Spirit. I was simply offering my life and will to God because of the insanity i was trapped in. As i offered myself to him every day or every hour if need be, a change started to happen. I didn't recognize it as a Spiritual experience, i just knew my insanity was gone. But i felt a joy, and a desire to want to serve others that i had never had before. It wasn't untili heard this pastor teach on what happens when the Holy Spirit is sealed in a saint that i knew something more was going on. What he was teaching was happening to me, and it floored me! I had never heard anyone teach the things he was teaching, still haven't. I was completly drawn to this teaching like it was part of my bone marrow. The thing that still gives me joy today is that i had the experience first, and then a teacher unknowingly bears witness to it, and the Holy Spirit inside me beared witness to him.

So i guess the answer to your Question is the Holy Spirit, although i had no clue at that time.

No, even though it was really a catholic priest that sent me in the direction i went down, this teacher is not a catholic priest.

jay
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  #12  
Old 11-16-2012, 12:03 AM
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Default Re: Eph. 4:11,13

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Originally Posted by watchman1 View Post
Hi cinderAsh,
The attack was ultimatly about the salvation process. But the battle was over one EXTREMLY important word. It's the word believe. The words believe, believer, and believing are used 248 times in the Gospels alone. The problem, is the word believe is not the word used in the origonal Greek manuscripts. The word used in the Geek text 248 times is, Pisteuo, it's the verb form of the word Faith. We don't have a word in the English language for the verb form of Faith. If we did it would be, Faither, Faithing, or to Faithe. The exact meaning of this word Pisteuo is, An action, based upon a belief, sustained by confidense.

The translators were forced to use a word that didn't fully communicate the exact definition of the origonal text. A word that only represents a part of the true meaning. And that word is "Believe".

The battle i fight is nobody seems to know about this, and when they find out, they reject it because they've built their entire understanding on the fact that all they have to do is "Believe" the good news of the Gospel, and at that instant their sealed with the Holy Spirit never to be taken out of his hands.

The word in the Greek is an action word, its something that the mind and the will have to be engauged in.The word Pisteuo involves Choices and decisions that are made that produce consequences. But at the same time it's not a work to be added to the finished gift of Grace.

The understanding of the ones who attacked me personally, my understanding, and my teacher, stand on this fact. That salvation is by Grace through Faith, The Faith of Christ, not our Faithing. Salvation is by Grace through Faith means, Salvation is by the finished work of Christ done on the cross, through Faith which is our response to that unmerited gift. Not a reponse of works that need to be added to Grace, but a surrender and submission to that gift of Grace. And the real completion of the word Pisteuo is when we are putting all our wieght on the staff called trust. Thats the pictorial meaning of this word Pisteuo, to put all your weight on a staff. The word BELIEVE is a mistranslation, and people are building there entire understanding on this mistranslation.

Here are a few examples of the difference between the two words.

1) MK.1:15, English, "Repent and (BELIEVE) in the Gospel.
Greek, "Repent and (be completly committed) to the Gospel"

2) Mk.!6:16, English, "He who (BELIEVES) and is baptized will be saved."
Greek, "He who (committs his life unto me) and is baptized will be saved."

3)MK. 16:17, English, "And these signs will follow those who (BELIEVE).
Greek, "And these signs will follow those who (are committed unto me.")

4) Jn. 3:16, English, " that whoever (BELIEVES) in him should not perish but have everlasting life."
Greek, "that whoever (committs their life to him) should not perish but have everlasting life.

There are 244 more foundational scriptures that could be added to this list. The point is that the Greek language is specific in the meanings of their words. And that the word Believe is a kind of stumbling block, and i'm just saying, WATCH OUT!

The greek text supports the best discription of a Christian, Deny self, take up your cross, and follow me. A continual surrender and submission to our Lord Jesus Christ!

In conclusion, They wouldn't admitt that the mistranslation exists. They stand on the definition of Pisteuo as BELIEVE because any conection to pisteuo in English they find will always go right back to the word BELIEVE because again ,we have no word in English for pisteuo.

The understanding of this word pisteuo and how it was mistranslated into English is vital to teaching a correct knowledge of the perfect man, Our Lord Jesus Christ. CHRIST IS FORMED IN OUR HEARTS BY FAITH!

jay
They really should listen to you rather than feel threatened.
This is good information worth knowing.
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  #13  
Old 11-16-2012, 07:56 AM
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Default Re: Eph. 4:11,13

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Originally Posted by watchman1 View Post
When Christ revealed himself to me 25 years ago, through what i know now to be a gifted minister. I had no knowledge of Christ, his Church, or the Holy Spirit. I was simply offering my life and will to God because of the insanity i was trapped in. As i offered myself to him every day or every hour if need be, a change started to happen. I didn't recognize it as a Spiritual experience, i just knew my insanity was gone. But i felt a joy, and a desire to want to serve others that i had never had before. It wasn't untili heard this pastor teach on what happens when the Holy Spirit is sealed in a saint that i knew something more was going on. What he was teaching was happening to me, and it floored me! I had never heard anyone teach the things he was teaching, still haven't. I was completly drawn to this teaching like it was part of my bone marrow. The thing that still gives me joy today is that i had the experience first, and then a teacher unknowingly bears witness to it, and the Holy Spirit inside me beared witness to him.

So i guess the answer to your Question is the Holy Spirit, although i had no clue at that time.

No, even though it was really a catholic priest that sent me in the direction i went down, this teacher is not a catholic priest.

jay
I am glad that you are learning from him and hope that you continue to be blessed.
One of the things that used to bother me about the Catholic Church is that they move Priests around. Priests rarely stay in the same Parish for more than 10 years.
I have come to see this as a good thing. It makes the Congregation focus on Christ, the Church and the liturgy, not a particular man.

2 Corinthians 5:7
for we walk by faith, not by sight -

To me this means we don't trust our "feelings", we trust Father.
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Matthew 23:12:
Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.
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  #14  
Old 11-16-2012, 08:33 AM
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Default Re: Eph. 4:11,13

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Originally Posted by CinderAsh View Post
They really should listen to you rather than feel threatened.
This is good information worth knowing.
Thanks Cinderash,

Much of the information Gods blessed me with comes through a domata, or gifted teacher. I only bear witness to this information by the indwelling Spirit and shine a light on it as i point to this stumbling block. I haven't been able to dicern between a watchman warning someone, and what the Jesus said not to do, casting our pearls before swine and that swine trampling the pearls and me. I 've been trampled alot.

jay
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  #15  
Old 11-16-2012, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: Eph. 4:11,13

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Originally Posted by watchman1 View Post
........My point to this thread is simple. It would be a great service to me to know how people in this group feel about this truth. Are you being perfected by a gifted minister or are you a gifted minister perfecting saints. Or, are you one who believes we don't need a gifted teacher, only the Holy Spirit.......
I have a counter question for you:

The first scripture you quoted says: "....Till we all come to the unity of the Faith....".

Currently, non-Catholic Christians are divided into thousands of "denominations", none of which agree on doctrines or teachings.

Are you being brought to unity by your minister, or are you part of just another small group that holds opinions contrary to traditional Christianity?
__________________

"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II
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  #16  
Old 11-16-2012, 08:54 AM
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Default Re: Eph. 4:11,13

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelowlyfisherman View Post
I am glad that you are learning from him and hope that you continue to be blessed.
One of the things that used to bother me about the Catholic Church is that they move Priests around. Priests rarely stay in the same Parish for more than 10 years.
I have come to see this as a good thing. It makes the Congregation focus on Christ, the Church and the liturgy, not a particular man.

2 Corinthians 5:7
for we walk by faith, not by sight -

To me this means we don't trust our "feelings", we trust Father.
Hi Lowlyfisherman,

You make valid point! Many that have sat under this teacher came to honor the messenger instead of the message, and end up on a parallel path.
Without naming this teacher, he was aware of this possibility and as a detourant did alot of contravercial things to kind of cull out those who wern't drawn to the teaching.

jay
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