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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > What Is Mary In Heaven ??

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  #1  
Old 06-29-2012, 03:04 PM
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Default What Is Mary In Heaven ??

Hi to all and many say that Mary is a Queen in heaven , is this true ?

Where in the bible proof of that event ?

Where is the proof that Mary is in Heaven ??

Gal 3;28 reads like this ,

#1 , In Heaven there is NEITHER Jew or Greek !!

#2 , In Heaven there is NEITHER bond nor free !!

#3 , In Heaven , there is NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE !!

From this verse , in HEAVEN , there is NEITHER MALE OR FEMALE , if Mary is in Heaven ??

They are Neuter , so how can a Female be in Heaven ??

dan p
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Old 06-29-2012, 03:31 PM
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Default Re: What Is Mary In Heaven ??

What does it mean for Mary to be the Queen of Heaven? Well, in the Old Testament monarchy the Queen of the Davidic Kingdom was the Queen Mother. The Kings, for reasons of state and human weakness, had many wives, none of whom fittingly could be called Queen. That honor was reserved for the mother of the King, whose authority far surpassed the many "queens" married to the king. We see this in the history of Middle Eastern nations of the time. We specifically see this is the role Bathsheba played with respect to King Solomon and the occasions when the Queen Mother acted as regent on behalf of juvenile successors to the throne. Remember, the Jews wanted a king in order to be “like all nations”. Thus, following the models of the neighboring lands, they established a dynasty, a legal system, a royal court – and a queen mother. She was the “Gebirah” – Great Lady.

The role of the Queen Mother, therefore, is a prophetic type of the Kingdom role of Mary, just as the role of the Davidic King is a prophetic type of the Kingdom role of Jesus. Jesus inherited the Kingdom promised to David, who was told that one of his descendants would rule forever. The angel Gabriel revealed this fact to Mary at her Annunciation: “Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end." (Luke 1:31-33)


Aside from the prophetic types present in the Kingdom of Judah, there is also the text of Psalm 45, which when speaking of the Kingdom of God also speaks of its Queen.

[6] Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. [7] Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. [8] All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad. [9] Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir. [10] Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house; [11] So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him. (Psalm 45:6-11, KJV)

That Kingdom ruled by God is the same as the Kingdom ruled eternally by the Son of David. It is not an earthly kingdom (though it is present on earth in the Church) but rather a heavenly kingdom, the Kingdom of God. The Queen of that Kingdom is the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of the Lord God Jesus Christ. The Jews who knew Jesus would have understood this perfectly. Jesus is “Son of David” who would inherit the throne of David. And who would inherit the throne at his side, the seat of the Queen Mother? His mother, of course.





Here is a great book on the subject, "Hail Holy Queen" by Dr. Scott Hahn


__________________

"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II

Last edited by CatholicCrusader : 06-29-2012 at 03:34 PM.
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  #3  
Old 06-29-2012, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: What Is Mary In Heaven ??

The only references the bible ever makes about " the queen of heaven" , is certainly not about Mary, who is not the queen of heaven no matter what men write.

Jer 7:16 Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.
Jer 7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
Jer 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
Jer 7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?

See another thing taken to the deluded hearts of men but which God hates, how much more must we add to our own destruction.

In All His most abundant love.
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Old 06-29-2012, 04:58 PM
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Default Re: What Is Mary In Heaven ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader;1)[/I

That Kingdom ruled by God is the same as the Kingdom ruled eternally by the Son of David. It is not an earthly kingdom (though it is present on earth in the Church) but rather a heavenly kingdom, the Kingdom of God. The Queen of that Kingdom is the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of the Lord God Jesus Christ. The Jews who knew Jesus would have understood this perfectly. Jesus is “Son of David” who would inherit the throne of David. And who would inherit the throne at his side, the seat of the Queen Mother? His mother, of course.





Here is a great book on the subject, "Hail Holy Queen" by Dr. Scott Hahn



Hi , and nowhere does it say that Mary will INHERIT and sit at God's side , nor do you have a bibical verse , proving it , do you ??

In Matt 8:11 say6s that Abraham and Isaac and Jacob will be in the Kingdom of Heaven , also called the Millennial Kingdom also called the 1000 reign of Christ .

I see , that you did not respond to the OP !!

Maybe , you do not like Gal 3:28 ??


dan p
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Old 06-29-2012, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: What Is Mary In Heaven ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by danp View Post
Hi to all and many say that Mary is a Queen in heaven , is this true ?

Where in the bible proof of that event ?

Where is the proof that Mary is in Heaven ??

Gal 3;28 reads like this ,

#1 , In Heaven there is NEITHER Jew or Greek !!

#2 , In Heaven there is NEITHER bond nor free !!

#3 , In Heaven , there is NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE !!

From this verse , in HEAVEN , there is NEITHER MALE OR FEMALE , if Mary is in Heaven ??

They are Neuter , so how can a Female be in Heaven ??

dan p
Galatians 3:28 doesn't say that. The word "Heaven" is not in it. And yes, Mary is in Heaven. This is not found in the Bible. It is found in the Apostolic Tradition.

Last edited by Selene : 06-29-2012 at 05:38 PM.
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  #6  
Old 06-29-2012, 11:31 PM
Moses
 
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Default Re: What Is Mary In Heaven ??

Jesus could have easily take her there.

We don't know.
Apostolic tradition is all we have, there are other traditions that Mary traveled to England with Joseph of Armatea.

I think she died and is a sleep with her people.
Her soul is in heaven and the only critic I have is that people pray to her as if she is a goddess.
Also people worship statues of Mary.
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  #7  
Old 06-30-2012, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: What Is Mary In Heaven ??

No they do not worship statues of Mary.
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  #8  
Old 06-30-2012, 12:51 AM
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Default Re: What Is Mary In Heaven ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjrhealth View Post
The only references the bible ever makes about " the queen of heaven" , is certainly not about Mary, who is not the queen of heaven no matter what men write.....
Well, you are a "man", so no matter what "you" write, you are wrong.




Is Mary's Queenship Biblical?
By Edward P. Sri
source: LINK


Mary’s title as "Queen of Heaven and Earth" is a great scandal to many non-Catholic Christians. After all, the Bible doesn’t mention anything about there being a queen in God’s kingdom. All this royal attention Catholics give to Mary—whether it’s singing "Hail, holy queen enthroned above" or portraying Mary in statues and paintings with a crown on her head—seems to many non-Catholics to detract from the royalty of Christ, who alone is King of Kings. Besides, how could Mary be a queen, since she is not the wife of the Jesus but only his mother?

One biblical theme sheds light on these questions and serves as a key for unlocking the mystery of Mary’s queenship: the Old Testament tradition of the "queen mother" in the Davidic kingdom.

In the monarchy of King David, as well as in other ancient kingdoms of the Near East, the mother of the ruling king held an important office in the royal court and played a key part in the process of dynastic succession. In fact, the king’s mother ruled as queen, not his wife.

The great pre-eminence of the king’s mother may seem odd from our modern Western perspective, in which we think of a queen as being the wife of a king. However, recall that most ancient Near-Eastern kings practiced polygamy. King Solomon had seven hundred wives (1 Kgs. 11:3)—imagine the chaos in the royal court if all seven hundred were awarded the queenship! But since each king had only one mother, one can see the practical wisdom in bestowing the queenship upon her.

A number of Old Testament passages reflect the important role of the queen mother in the Davidic kingdom. For example, almost every time the narrative of 1 and 2 Kings introduces a new monarch in Judah, it mentions the king’s mother as well, showing the mother’s intimate involvement in her royal son’s reign. Similarly, the queen mother is listed among the members of the royal court whom king Jehoiachin surrendered to the king of Babylon in 2 Kings 24:12.

Her royal office is also described by the prophet Jeremiah, who tells how the queen mother possessed a throne and a crown, symbolic of her position of authority in the kingdom: "Say to the king and the queen mother: ‘Take a lowly seat, for your beautiful crown has come down from your head. . . . Lift up your eyes and see those who come from the north. Where is the flock that was given you, your beautiful flock?’" (Jer. 13:18, 20). It is significant that God directed this oracle about the upcoming fall of Judah to both the king and his mother. Addressing both king and queen mother, Jeremiah portrays her as sharing in her son’s rule over the kingdom.

Probably the clearest example of the queen mother’s role is that of Bathsheba, wife of David and mother of Solomon. Scholars have noted the excellence of Bathsheba’s position in the kingdom once she became queen mother during Solomon’s rule. Compare the humble attitude of Bathsheba as spouse of King David (1 Kgs. 1:16–17, 31) with her majestic dignity as mother of the next king, Solomon (1 Kgs. 2:19–20). As spouse of the king, Bathsheba bows with her face to the ground and does obeisance to her husband, David, upon entering his royal chamber. In striking contrast, after her son Solomon assumed the throne and she became queen mother, Bathsheba receives a glorious reception upon meeting with her royal son:

"So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne and had a seat brought for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right. Then she said, ‘I have one small request to make of you; do not refuse me.’ And the king said to her, ‘Make your request, my mother; for I will not refuse you’" (1 Kgs. 2:19–20).

This account reveals the sovereign prerogatives of the queen mother. Note how the king rises and bows as she enters. Bathsheba’s seat at the king’s right hand has the greatest significance. In the Bible, the right hand is the place of ultimate honor. This is seen in particular in the messianic Psalm 110 ("Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool"). In fact, many New Testament passages refer to the right-hand imagery of Psalm 110 to show Christ’s divinity and his reign with the Father over the whole universe (e.g., Hebrews 1:13). Thus, the queen mother sitting at the king’s right hand symbolizes her sharing in the king’s royal authority and illustrates how she holds the most important position in the kingdom, second only to the king.

This passage regarding Bathsheba also shows how the queen mother served as an advocate for the people, carrying petitions to the king. In 1 Kings 2:17, Adonijah asks Bathsheba to take a petition for him to King Solomon. He says to her: "Pray ask King Solomon—he will not refuse you—to give me Abishag the Shunammite as my wife" (1 Kgs. 2:17). It is clear that Adonijah recognizes the queen mother’s position of influence over the king, so he confidently turns to Bathsheba as an intercessor for his request.

A few Old Testament prophecies incorporate the queen mother tradition when telling of the future Messiah. One example is Isaiah 7:14, which originated during a time of dynastic crisis in Judah when Syria and Israel were threatening Jerusalem and plotting to overthrow King Ahaz. God offers Ahaz a sign that the kingdom will continue: "Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son and shall call his name Emmanuel" (Isa. 7:13–14).

On one level, this passage points to the next king (Hezekiah) as a pledge that the Davidic dynasty will continue despite the threats of invading armies. At the same time, the royal son who is to be named "Emmanuel" points to the future messianic king (cf., Isa. 9:6–7, 11:1–2). This is why the New Testament says Jesus fulfills this prophecy from Isaiah (Matt. 1:23).

For our purposes we should note how this prophecy links the mother to her royal son. Since the oracle is addressed specifically to the Davidic household and concerns the continuation of the dynasty, the young woman bearing forth the royal son would be understood as a queen mother. This has implications for our understanding of Mary. Since the mother of the king always ruled as queen mother, we should expect to find the mother of the messianic king playing the role of the true queen mother in the everlasting Kingdom of God.

With this Old Testament background, we can now more clearly see how the New Testament portrays Mary in light of the queen mother tradition.

The Gospel of Matthew has often been called the "Gospel of the Kingdom." Matthew emphasizes that Jesus is "the Son of David," who is the true King of the Jews establishing the "Kingdom of Heaven." With all this kingly imagery, it should not be surprising to find queen mother themes as well.

Right away, Matthew shows explicitly how the infant Jesus is the "Emmanuel" child as prophesied in Isaiah 7:14 (Matt. 1:23). As we saw above, this prophecy links the royal messianic child with his queen mother. Further, Matthew singles out the intimate relationship between the mother and her royal son by using the phrase "the child and his mother" five times in the first two chapters, recalling the close association between queen mother and royal son as described in the Books of Kings. Just as the queen mother was constantly mentioned alongside the Judean kings in 1 and 2 Kings, so Mary is frequently mentioned alongside her royal son, Jesus, in Matthew’s infancy narrative (Matt. 1:18; 2:11, 13, 14, 20, 21).

We find Mary portrayed against the background of Davidic kingdom motifs in Luke’s Gospel as well, especially in his accounts of the Annunciation and Visitation. First, the angel Gabriel is said to appear to a virgin betrothed to a man "of the house of David" (1:27). Then the angel tells Mary, "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there will be no end" (Luke 1:31–33).

Hear the strong Davidic overtones describing Mary and her royal son: a woman from the house of David giving birth to a son who will be the new king whose reign will never end. With echoes from the queen mother tradition of the Davidic kingdom and the mother-son prophecy of Isaiah 7:14, we can conclude that Mary is being given the vocation of queen mother.

Mary’s royal office is made even more explicit in Luke’s account of the Visitation. Elizabeth greets Mary with the title "the mother of my Lord" (Luke 1:43). This title is charged with great queenly significance. In the royal court language of the ancient NearEast, the title "Mother of my Lord" was used to address the queen mother of the reigning king (who himself was addressed as "my Lord"; cf., 2 Sam. 24:21). Thus with this title Elizabeth is recognizing the great dignity of Mary’s role as the royal mother of the king, Jesus.

Finally, Mary’s queenship can be seen in the great vision described in Revelation 12: "And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery" (Rev. 12:1–2). Who is this newborn child? He is described as the messianic king exercising his dominion. In verse 5, the author of Revelation chose the messianic Psalm 2 to describe how this child will "rule all the nations with a rod of iron" (Rev. 12:5, Ps. 2:9). This royal son is taken up to heaven to sit on a throne (Rev. 12:5), and he ushers in the kingdom of God by defeating the devil: "Now the kingdom of our God has come, for the accuser has been throne down" (12:10). Certainly, this newborn child is the royal Messiah, King Jesus.

In this light it is clear who this woman is who gave birth to the messiah: It is Mary. Some people have interpreted this woman in Revelation 12 as merely a symbol either for the Old Testament people of Israel or for the New Testament Church and therefore have concluded that the woman cannot be an individual (i.e., Mary). However, this "either-or" proposition is foreign to the biblical worldview, in which individuals often symbolically represent collective groups. For instance, Adam represented all humanity (Rom. 5:19), and Jacob stood for all of Israel (Ps. 44:4). Given this biblical notion called "corporate personality," the woman in Revelation 12 should be understood as both an individual (Mary) and a symbol for the people of God.

But for our purposes, once we see that this woman is Mary, the mother of Jesus, it is important to note how she is portrayed as queen in this passage. Her royal office is hinted at by the imagery of the sun, moon, and twelve stars, which recalls the Old Testament story of Joseph’s dream in which the sun, moon, and stars bow down before him, symbolizing his future authority (Gen. 37:9–11). Her queenship is made even clearer by the crown of twelve stars on her head. Just like the queen mother in Jeremiah 13:18, here Mary is wearing a crown, symbolizing her royal office in the kingdom of heaven. In sum, Revelation 12 portrays Mary as the new queen mother in the Kingdom of God, sharing in her son’s rule over the universe.

We have seen how the Old Testament queen mother tradition serves as an important background for understanding Mary’s royal office. Indeed, the New Testament portrays Mary as the queen mother par excellence. Thus, prayers, hymns, and art giving honor to Mary’s queenship are most fitting biblical responses for Christians. In honoring her as queen mother we do not take anything away from Christ’s glory, but rather we exalt him even more by recognizing the great work he has done in her and through her.

Understanding Mary as queen mother sheds light on her important intercessory role in the Christian life. Just like the queen mother of the Davidic kingdom, Mary serves as advocate for the people in the Kingdom of God today. Thus, we should approach our queen mother with confidence, knowing that she carries our petitions to her royal son and that he responds to her as Solomon did to Bathsheba: "I will never refuse you."
__________________

"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II
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  #9  
Old 06-30-2012, 09:31 AM
Moses
 
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Default Re: What Is Mary In Heaven ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetiger View Post
No they do not worship statues of Mary.
Yes they do, it is masked in ignorance at times, wile they point that people simply venerate but the actual evidence, when you see it you know it. They also worship other statues , Peter etc. Only the statue of Peter is actually the statue of Jupiter.
There is a definition to the word worship and the actions many take toward the statue is clearly falls in to this definition.

Queen BathSheba lived and died. She was queen mother of King Solomon who also died.
Queen Mary mother of King Jesus also sleeps with her people Israel the Jews.
Jesus Christ as I said earlier all powerful may have took her there, poor Mary suffered more then others at the crucifixion of her son. The rest is simply man made conclusions and excuses. They needed a goddess so they created one.

Calling some one a liar is not a prove that he is a liar.
I read in the good book that many called Him that he did what He did because of baelzabab. They call Him a liar to.

The moment people kneel in front a statue they worship it by the definition.
The rest is false teaching and masking the pagan lies that infiltrated RCC.
More than that God is the King.
Once you make Mary a Queen you elevate her to the forth person of Godhead. Now its Quad union and not Trinity.

The great deception and the attempts to explain it are idolatry and polytheism.
Queen would be seated on a another tron for queen to rule the kingdom with the King.
She is the Queen symbolically, as she is the mother of Man - Jesus

God Jesus had no mother.

They're the ones that used to kill people for reading the Bible back when True Christians had to hide out in order to Praise Jesus the right way.

Jesus is very clear in Luke 4:8 when he says, "You shall do homage to YHWH your God; Him alone shall you adore."
Jesus - For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Matthew 6:7, Jesus warns Christians, "But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."

Quote:
After years of no longer being a Catholic, I attended a Catholic funeral. When I went into the church something hit me hard. It had always been there, but I had never noticed it before because I was used to it. There were statues of Mary and the saints. They looked solid, real, as if they represented people of power. Jesus only appeared as a helpless baby in Mary’s arms, as a dead man nailed to a cross, and as little wafers of bread hidden inside a fancy box. Visually and emotionally the message was very clear ‑- if you want real power, if you want someone who can do something for you, then go to Mary and the Saints.
MARY WORSHIP by Mary Ann Collins (A Former Catholic Nun)


“Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping, in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.”


The Early Fathers used Scripture as the standard against which they tested Church tradition. The modern Catholic doctrine that Church tradition is equal in authority with the Bible is contrary to the writings of the Early Fathers.

Last edited by Moses : 06-30-2012 at 10:15 AM.
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  #10  
Old 06-30-2012, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: What Is Mary In Heaven ??

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Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
Well, you are a "man", so no matter what "you" write, you are wrong.



."

Hi , and are the so-called church fathers MEN , and what they wrote not wrong , ALSO ??


Only the bible as written is TRUE , and not Traditions !!

Gal 3:28 is a hard PILL for you , that you will never be able to explain !!

dan p

Last edited by danp : 06-30-2012 at 01:22 PM.
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