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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > The Eucharist

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  #1  
Old 05-19-2012, 06:54 PM
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Default The Eucharist

I followed some of Catholic Crusader's links in another post. One was about the Eucharist; this caught my eye...

"Christ’s presence in the Church makes it catholic, or universal. He is wherever the Church is, and wherever the Church is, there is the Eucharist.

As a universal Church, we have the responsibility of being Christ to others. This means that we not only must say what he said; we must do what he did. Jesus admonished sinners, showed mercy, asked for repentance, and demonstrated compassion and forgiveness. He also fed the hungry, healed the sick, and encouraged the poor. He did not deny anyone because of their race, sex, age, or state in life. Just as we are to be Christ to others, so we must see Christ in others. He can be found in everyone. When we see Christ in others, we find ourselves. In this way, the Church is also universal.

By participating in the eucharistic celebration, we are reminded that the loving sacrifice that he made for us he also made for everyone. All activities of the Church to spread the kingdom of God are linked with the Eucharist and are directed back to it. St. Peter Chrysologus said, "The Eucharist is the link that binds the Christian family together. Take away the Eucharist and you have no brotherliness left."

I have long been troubled that the Sacrament of the Eucharist is not open to all believers (and non-believers as well). The statements that I have bolded indicate that this shouldn't be the case, as the sacrifice of Jesus was for all and the Eucharist binds all Christians together.

As you may recall, Jesus didn't deny the bread and wine to Judas, whom he knew would betray him.

Why aren't non-Catholics allowed to receive the body and blood of our Lord?

Last edited by jaybo : 05-19-2012 at 06:58 PM.
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  #2  
Old 05-19-2012, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: The Eucharist

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Originally Posted by jaybo View Post
I have long been troubled that the Sacrament of the Eucharist is not open to all believers (and non-believers as well). The statements that I have bolded indicate that this shouldn't be the case, as the sacrifice of Jesus was for all and the Eucharist binds all Christians together.

As you may recall, Jesus didn't deny the bread and wine to Judas, whom he knew would betray him.

Why aren't non-Catholics allowed to receive the body and blood of our Lord?
Because most protestants do not believe in the "Real Presence" associated with the EurChrist. How can they receive that which they do not believe - that which they deny to be real?
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Old 05-19-2012, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: The Eucharist

Dear jaybo,

Jesus desires all to come to Him. But this coming to Christ involves being in communion with Him and His Church, His People. So, since the Holy Eucharist is a SIGN and SACRAMENT of this Communion, it presupposes that there is already a Communion which is meant to be strengthened and fed and renewed.

The Holy Eucharist actually makes us into ONE Body with Christ.

And as Mark has posted, you must believe and confess with your heart that Jesus is really, truly, and substantially PRESENT in the Holy Eucharist (under the outward appearances of bread and of wine).

The Holy Spirit comes to dwell in our hearts by the Divine Indwelling. God, the Third Person, makes His home in our souls. But, the Holy Spirit is NOT the Son. The Son comes to us in the Most Holy Eucharist Sacramentally.

But, yes, Jesus comes to us spiritually via a spiritual communion.

What is the difference between a spiritual and a Sacramental communion?

Well, ... let's just say that it is like trying to describe the difference between silver and gold.

But, all are invited to partake of Holy Communion, provided they take the proper steps toward Christ and His Church. That's all.

It is really more simple than many make it out to be. It is people who complicate things.

It is like speaking about pre-marital sex with a couple in love. It is wrong to engage in it, and you would counsel them to wait until Marriage. Simple, right? At least, that's how it should be.

God bless you.
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:03 AM
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Default Re: The Eucharist

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaybo View Post
I followed some of Catholic Crusader's links in another post. One was about the Eucharist; this caught my eye...

"Christís presence in the Church makes it catholic, or universal. He is wherever the Church is, and wherever the Church is, there is the Eucharist.

As a universal Church, we have the responsibility of being Christ to others. This means that we not only must say what he said; we must do what he did. Jesus admonished sinners, showed mercy, asked for repentance, and demonstrated compassion and forgiveness. He also fed the hungry, healed the sick, and encouraged the poor. He did not deny anyone because of their race, sex, age, or state in life. Just as we are to be Christ to others, so we must see Christ in others. He can be found in everyone. When we see Christ in others, we find ourselves. In this way, the Church is also universal.

By participating in the eucharistic celebration, we are reminded that the loving sacrifice that he made for us he also made for everyone. All activities of the Church to spread the kingdom of God are linked with the Eucharist and are directed back to it. St. Peter Chrysologus said, "The Eucharist is the link that binds the Christian family together. Take away the Eucharist and you have no brotherliness left."

I have long been troubled that the Sacrament of the Eucharist is not open to all believers (and non-believers as well). The statements that I have bolded indicate that this shouldn't be the case, as the sacrifice of Jesus was for all and the Eucharist binds all Christians together.

As you may recall, Jesus didn't deny the bread and wine to Judas, whom he knew would betray him.

Why aren't non-Catholics allowed to receive the body and blood of our Lord?
That would make the path very well trodden and the narrow gate will bust open and the fence trampled down.
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Old 05-20-2012, 06:51 AM
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Default Re: The Eucharist

I don't think that Communion should be open to non-believers, because of the warning that Paul gives in 1 Cor 11:29 - "For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves." It would be irresponsible, even cruel, to allow non-Christians to partake in something sacred that would result in judgment on them.

It does disappoint me that the CC & OC wouldn't let me take Communion in their services. Even though I do believe in and treasure the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist (something God has taught me relatively recently in my Christian life), I am still not allowed to share that with my brothers and sisters in those churches, and I think I am right in saying that they would not feel able to take Communion in my church (Anglican), even though they would be welcome to. I find that very sad
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Old 05-20-2012, 08:16 AM
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Default Re: The Eucharist

Something I found on youtube related to the Eucharist... kinda cool:



and ....

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Old 05-20-2012, 09:05 AM
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Default Re: The Eucharist

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Originally Posted by Mark View Post
Because most protestants do not believe in the "Real Presence" associated with the EurChrist. How can they receive that which they do not believe - that which they deny to be real?
How do you know what anyone really believes, let alone "most Protestants" (capitalized)? You have objected to people lumping all Catholics into one baseless category, yet you are doing the same thing here with Protestants.

(Why don't you capitalize Protestants? Should only Catholics and Orthodox be capitalized?)

BTW, there is nothing scriptural about what you say. There is no biblical requirement to believe a certain way to receive the body and blood of Christ. That is an invention of the Catholic church, and a bad one.
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Old 05-20-2012, 09:16 AM
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Default Re: The Eucharist

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Originally Posted by AHJE View Post
Dear jaybo,

Jesus desires all to come to Him. But this coming to Christ involves being in communion with Him and His Church, His People. So, since the Holy Eucharist is a SIGN and SACRAMENT of this Communion, it presupposes that there is already a Communion which is meant to be strengthened and fed and renewed.

The Holy Eucharist actually makes us into ONE Body with Christ.

And as Mark has posted, you must believe and confess with your heart that Jesus is really, truly, and substantially PRESENT in the Holy Eucharist (under the outward appearances of bread and of wine).

The Holy Spirit comes to dwell in our hearts by the Divine Indwelling. God, the Third Person, makes His home in our souls. But, the Holy Spirit is NOT the Son. The Son comes to us in the Most Holy Eucharist Sacramentally.

But, yes, Jesus comes to us spiritually via a spiritual communion.

What is the difference between a spiritual and a Sacramental communion?

Well, ... let's just say that it is like trying to describe the difference between silver and gold.

But, all are invited to partake of Holy Communion, provided they take the proper steps toward Christ and His Church. That's all.

It is really more simple than many make it out to be. It is people who complicate things.

It is like speaking about pre-marital sex with a couple in love. It is wrong to engage in it, and you would counsel them to wait until Marriage. Simple, right? At least, that's how it should be.

God bless you.
As I said in my reply to Mark, there is nothing in the bible that requires that people "take the proper steps toward Christ and His Church" before they can receive the body and blood of Christ. It goes against the entire teaching of the New Testament: Christ welcomes all who come to him in faith. There is no requirement other than that, otherwise the Old Testament law is resurrected. Before Jesus fed the multitudes, did he require something of them? Didn't he permit Judas to share the bread and wine, even though he knew in advance that he was the one who would betray him?

IMHO the Catholic Church uses the body and blood of Christ to separate "the one true church" (in their opinion) from the one true church, which is composed of all who believe in him.
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  #9  
Old 05-20-2012, 09:38 AM
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Default Re: The Eucharist

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Originally Posted by jaybo View Post
How do you know what anyone really believes, let alone "most Protestants" (capitalized)? You have objected to people lumping all Catholics into one baseless category, yet you are doing the same thing here with Protestants.

(Why don't you capitalize Protestants? Should only Catholics and Orthodox be capitalized?)

BTW, there is nothing scriptural about what you say. There is no biblical requirement to believe a certain way to receive the body and blood of Christ. That is an invention of the Catholic church, and a bad one.
That's the point, you don't know... and I believe it's accurate to say that most Protestant denominations do not believe in the Eucharist the same way Catholics do... why should they be allowed to partake in something they don't believe in? If they believe, they have the option to move forward with their faith and participate.
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Old 05-20-2012, 10:06 AM
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Default Re: The Eucharist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
Because most protestants do not believe in the "Real Presence" associated with the EurChrist. How can they receive that which they do not believe - that which they deny to be real?
And this is a good point. In Protestant land where I have spent a good many years, I have often had to go to the Catholics for some deeper understandings. This may make someone uncomfortable and I am sorry if it does and its not to say that Protestant Land hasn't had some amazing revelation because it has.
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