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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > God is omniscient, Jesus is God, but Jesus is not omniscient.

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  #1  
Old 12-23-2011, 05:59 AM
rstrats's Avatar
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Default God is omniscient, Jesus is God, but Jesus is not omniscient.

If there is anyone that believes this, how do you reconcile the contradiction?
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  #2  
Old 12-23-2011, 08:44 AM
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Lightbulb Re: God is omniscient, Jesus is of course not God

WHY OH WHY DO CHRISTIANS PERSIST IN BELIEVING CHURCH TEACHINGS THAT VIOLATE THE BIBLE ?!

Matthew 19:17

New King James Version



17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

WOW WHAT A GREAT VERSE ! Many of those who keep ignoring the many Bible verses that make it clear that Jesus is the Son of God also keep falsely teaching that we can just ignore the Ten Commandments.Not often that you will find 31 words that exposes so many false teachers!!

Ok here is a terrific New Year's resolution:

IN 2012 I WILL STOP ENRAGING JEWS AND MUSLIMS WITH MY IDOLATROUS TEACHINGS.

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD,ONE SON,AND ONE HOLY SPIRIT!!
__________________


The Christian faith has not been designed to create success or find pleasure in or even tolerate this world but rather to OVERCOME it!
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  #3  
Old 12-23-2011, 10:28 AM
Sid
 
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Default Re: God is omniscient, Jesus is of course not God

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFrank View Post
WHY OH WHY DO CHRISTIANS PERSIST IN BELIEVING CHURCH TEACHINGS THAT VIOLATE THE BIBLE ?!
That's a trifle simplistic.
There are hundreds of different churches/denominations.
Each believes that they align with the bible and that those that believe differently violate it.
Each might well say "Why oh why do Christians persist in believing church teachings that violate the bible?

A far more poignant question would be "Why does the bible spawn so many hundreds of denominations whose teachings differ sufficiently for them to have felt it necessary to form a separate denomination?"
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  #4  
Old 12-23-2011, 12:53 PM
Nancy
 
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Default Re: God is omniscient, Jesus is God, but Jesus is not omniscient.

In reference to Dr. Frank's post and the following Scripture:
Quote:
Matthew 19:17

King James Version (KJV)

17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Perhaps, Jesus-- because He was/is omniscient-- knew, once again, what was in this man's heart, as we are told, He also knew what was in the hearts of many. Perhaps, Jesus, knew that the man, who addressed Him, as "Good Master" or "Good Teacher" saw Him as only that--a good teacher. But, as we know, Jesus was, and is, infinitely more.

Jesus told the young man, "There is none good but one, that is, God."

Elsewhere (in John 14), Jesus, when responding in weary fashion to Philip said, "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?"

God give us eyes to see.

Jesus said, "If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him."

God help us to see, understand and know you.

Jesus said, in John 10, "I and my Father are one."

Of course, the Jews wished to stone Him for thus saying.

Jesus also told them, "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

We, also, can become children of God (sons and daughters of God), but, with a vast difference: We, unlike thee Son of God, must not accept worship. As the angel reprimanded John, in Rev. 22:8-9, when John fell before the feet of the angel to worship that angel: "See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God."

Jesus clearly DID accept worship, though He, Himself, in quoting Scripture, said, "Worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."


Quote:
Matthew 4:10

King James Version (KJV)

10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
In Luke 24, note that AFTER "opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures" (verse 45):

"he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them. And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen." (verses 50-53)

What is this mystery?

May we be so blessed with understanding, that we, also understand and worship Him in all due fullness of His great glory.

Nor did Jesus chastise our beloved Thomas, when he exclaimed, with great wonder and awe of the mystery, of the Perfect and Rare Treasure which lay in the field, "My Lord and my God!"

Understanding the things of God are difficult for men, but I will choose to exclaim, when standing before Christ as Thomas did, when seeing "the print of the nails" and when "thrusting my hand" in His side--I will exclaim without reservation or shame:

My Lord and my God!


Who will dare stone me? Who will dare say that Jesus, as "God" was not "good"?

How, oh how, Dr. Frank, can one worship Jesus if Jesus is not God?


(all of the above, written, of course, in my understanding)

Last edited by Nancy : 12-23-2011 at 12:55 PM.
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  #5  
Old 12-23-2011, 01:15 PM
Nancy
 
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Default Re: God is omniscient, Jesus is God, but Jesus is not omniscient.

Quote:
Dr. Frank: IN 2012 I WILL STOP ENRAGING JEWS AND MUSLIMS WITH MY IDOLATROUS TEACHINGS.
Dr. Frank, are you seriously saying that it is "idolatrous" to worship Jesus?
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  #6  
Old 12-23-2011, 04:17 PM
Nancy
 
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Default Re: God is omniscient, Jesus is God, but Jesus is not omniscient.

Researching further, I find in Hebrews, Chapter 1, that God has even commanded that the angels worship Jesus; this, in verse 6:

Quote:
Hebrews 1:6

King James Version (KJV)

6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Now, within the 10 Commandments, God said, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Would God suddenly change His mind and decide it is befitting that we worship another? No! It is He alone we are to worship!

And, yet . . . Jesus accepted worship!

Sound reasoning, I believe, tells us that if Jesus accepted worship, either He was committing blasphemous sin by doing so, or He is, in fact, God, accepting worship unto Himself.

If any other than Jesus demand our worship, would we not deny worship unto this person?

But, then, why do we worship Jesus? How can we worship Jesus when we are to worship God alone?

Is it not because all fullness of deity lie within our Lord and Savior, though it be hard for us to grasp how this can be?

Was Jesus not "Immanuel"--God with us?

Is this not what He meant when He said, "I and my father are one?"

We are all called to be "one" with God in spirit--and with Jesus. But, no knee shall bend to any but our Lord.

Did God not pour Himself into His "son" and walk among us?

What does it mean when Scripture (Hebrews 1:3) tells us:

Jesus is . . . "the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person"?

Indeed, no man has seen God. Can God be "seen" with physical eyes? I don't believe so.

But, look at the sincerity and passion of these words:

Quote:
1 John 1:1-5

King James Version (KJV)

1 John 1

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us; )

3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

4And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
God is light!

And here, next, we see that Jesus is light--the "True Light":

Quote:
John 1:4-9

King James Version (KJV)

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
God is Light. Jesus is Light.

The Christ child grew within Mary. Will He not also grow within us (in a spiritual sense)?

Mary, when told by the angel, that she would conceive a child, asked, "How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?"

Mary did not understand how such a thing could be, and yet she did not question that what the angel told her was true. She only asked how it could be.

Why, I wonder, must we question what we can not understand?

Look at Hebrews 1:6! This is the Father, speaking of the Son; See what the Father calls the Son!

Quote:
Hebrews 1:8

King James Version (KJV)

8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Why would God, the Father, call Jesus "God" if He were not, in fact, in some unfathomable way--GOD?!!

If we must understand all things to believe, we are, I think, in deep trouble.

Concerning the OP: If God is omniscient, and Jesus is God, then, yes, Jesus is omniscient and, further, He has experienced life with all its joys, trials, and tribulations. There are many examples in Scripture of Jesus "knowing" what is in a man's heart or "knowing" the thoughts of men.

What does Jesus not know, He who was "with" God from "the beginning"?

It is good to seek understanding. But it is better to believe. Did not Mary's example show us this?
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  #7  
Old 12-24-2011, 03:16 AM
ElpidioLGagolinan's Avatar
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Default Re: God is omniscient, Jesus is God, but Jesus is not omniscient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
If there is anyone that believes this, how do you reconcile the contradiction?
We have to remember that when Jesus as God became man, He allowed Himself to be limited. He hungers, thirsts, go tired, experienced physical pain
and also die on the cross. That is why as man , Jesus said there are some things he does not know.

to rstrats,what do you believe ?

ped
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Old 12-24-2011, 03:30 AM
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Default Re: God is omniscient, Jesus is of course not God

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid View Post
That's a trifle simplistic.
There are hundreds of different churches/denominations.
Each believes that they align with the bible and that those that believe differently violate it.
Each might well say "Why oh why do Christians persist in believing church teachings that violate the bible?

A far more poignant question would be "Why does the bible spawn so many hundreds of denominations whose teachings differ sufficiently for them to have felt it necessary to form a separate denomination?"
I believe that the Bible does not contradict itself but man does have different interpretations. There are now about 7,000,000,000 people in the face of the earth who are different from one another.

ped
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  #9  
Old 12-24-2011, 05:23 AM
Giuliano
 
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Default Re: God is omniscient, Jesus is God, but Jesus is not omniscient.

All this talk about God and omniscience! Who knows this is true? Who tested God and gave Him a passing grade? You'd have to be omniscient yourself to be sure God is also omniscient.
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  #10  
Old 12-24-2011, 06:06 AM
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Default Re: God is omniscient, Jesus is God, but Jesus is not omniscient.

ElpidioLGagolinan,

re: “to rstrats, what do you believe ?”


I believe that it is a logical impossibility.
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