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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Was the Trinity included in Jesus’ gospel?

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  #1  
Old 07-03-2011, 05:34 PM
JohnZain
 
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Default Was the Trinity included in Jesus’ gospel?

This is NOT arguing against the Trinity … I believe in the Triune Godhead.

Jesus went around to all of the villages and towns preaching the gospel ... His gospel.
And later, Jesus commanded His disciples to preach His gospel to the ends of the earth.

Jesus’ gospel (good news, glad tidings, etc.), not Paul's gospel, nor anyone else's gospel.
And this obviously has nothing to do with the Nicean Creed from 325 a.d.

Note:
There is some difference between Jesus’ preaching of His gospel to the multitudes
compared to His teaching to His disciples (especially at the end of His ministry).
To the mutlitudes … was the Holy Spirit ever included?
To the disciples … the Holy Spirit was included,
especially in His great farewell discourse (see a great Trinity passage: John 14:16-26).

Two sources of belief in the Trinity:
1) being born into a family, culture, etc. which has “blind faith” in it.
2) being given a further spiritual revelation (beyond a belief in the gospel).

My bottom line
The Trinity was never a part of the simple gospel that Jesus preached to the multitudes.
A belief in the Trinity often needs to come from a spiritual revelation.

Are you able to show me verses of Jesus' preaching (in the 4 gospels)
where the Trinity is a part of His gospel?


Note:
There has been a great problem because of the absence of the Trinity in Jesus’ gospel.
This has led many (including Muslims) to insist that Paul preached a different gospel.
But, let us realize that Jesus and Paul preached to 2 totally different audiences:
Jesus preached to the multitudes (none of which had the Holy Spirit).
Paul’s letters were to the churches (most of whom had the Holy Spirit).
.
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  #2  
Old 07-03-2011, 07:08 PM
Austin's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 140
Default Re: Was the Trinity included in Jesus’ gospel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZain View Post
This is NOT arguing against the Trinity … I believe in the Triune Godhead.

Jesus went around to all of the villages and towns preaching the gospel ... His gospel.
And later, Jesus commanded His disciples to preach His gospel to the ends of the earth.

Jesus’ gospel (good news, glad tidings, etc.), not Paul's gospel, nor anyone else's gospel.
And this obviously has nothing to do with the Nicean Creed from 325 a.d.

Note:
There is some difference between Jesus’ preaching of His gospel to the multitudes
compared to His teaching to His disciples (especially at the end of His ministry).
To the mutlitudes … was the Holy Spirit ever included?
To the disciples … the Holy Spirit was included,
especially in His great farewell discourse (see a great Trinity passage: John 14:16-26).

Two sources of belief in the Trinity:
1) being born into a family, culture, etc. which has “blind faith” in it.
2) being given a further spiritual revelation (beyond a belief in the gospel).

My bottom line
The Trinity was never a part of the simple gospel that Jesus preached to the multitudes.
A belief in the Trinity often needs to come from a spiritual revelation.

Are you able to show me verses of Jesus' preaching (in the 4 gospels)
where the Trinity is a part of His gospel?


Note:
There has been a great problem because of the absence of the Trinity in Jesus’ gospel.
This has led many (including Muslims) to insist that Paul preached a different gospel.
But, let us realize that Jesus and Paul preached to 2 totally different audiences:
Jesus preached to the multitudes (none of which had the Holy Spirit).
Paul’s letters were to the churches (most of whom had the Holy Spirit).
.
If Jesus would have mentioned there was three Gods in Heaven his disciples would have been the first ones to leave his side. No Hebrew believes in the trinity or at least in the time of Jesus they didn't.
The teaching of the comforter coming was to the disciples and was intended to be taught to all who should follow Jesus. Jesus states who the comforter is by saying; I will come to you.
Holy is not a name, neither is Ghost.
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  #3  
Old 07-03-2011, 09:12 PM
Giuliano
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Was the Trinity included in Jesus’ gospel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZain View Post
The Trinity was never a part of the simple gospel that Jesus preached to the multitudes.
A belief in the Trinity often needs to come from a spiritual revelation.
Elsewhere (A Problem to solve in Christian theology), you wrote this:

Quote:
I prefer to believe only in the word of God (sola scriptura), and NOT in ANY of man's doctrines.
Protestant sola scriptura only -- Catholics and Orthodox obviously don't believe in it.
Seems as if you don't believe in "sola scriptura" yourself.
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  #4  
Old 07-04-2011, 08:03 AM
Suspended for Review
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,856
Default Re: Was the Trinity included in Jesus’ gospel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZain View Post
This is NOT arguing against the Trinity … I believe in the Triune Godhead.

Jesus went around to all of the villages and towns preaching the gospel ... His gospel.
And later, Jesus commanded His disciples to preach His gospel to the ends of the earth.

Jesus’ gospel (good news, glad tidings, etc.), not Paul's gospel, nor anyone else's gospel.
And this obviously has nothing to do with the Nicean Creed from 325 a.d.

Note:
There is some difference between Jesus’ preaching of His gospel to the multitudes
compared to His teaching to His disciples (especially at the end of His ministry).
To the mutlitudes … was the Holy Spirit ever included?
To the disciples … the Holy Spirit was included,
especially in His great farewell discourse (see a great Trinity passage: John 14:16-26).

Two sources of belief in the Trinity:
1) being born into a family, culture, etc. which has “blind faith” in it.
2) being given a further spiritual revelation (beyond a belief in the gospel).

My bottom line
The Trinity was never a part of the simple gospel that Jesus preached to the multitudes.
A belief in the Trinity often needs to come from a spiritual revelation.

Are you able to show me verses of Jesus' preaching (in the 4 gospels)
where the Trinity is a part of His gospel?


Note:
There has been a great problem because of the absence of the Trinity in Jesus’ gospel.
This has led many (including Muslims) to insist that Paul preached a different gospel.
But, let us realize that Jesus and Paul preached to 2 totally different audiences:
Jesus preached to the multitudes (none of which had the Holy Spirit).
Paul’s letters were to the churches (most of whom had the Holy Spirit).
.
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”

From that moment on the trinity was and went out.

28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.”
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  #5  
Old 07-04-2011, 09:16 AM
DrFrank's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 426
Default Re: Was the Trinity included in Jesus’ gospel?

In just a few words Jesus taught us the doctrine of the Trinity which cult members such as members of the Jehovah Witnesses coven , dispute at their own peril.

John 14:16 (Contemporary English Version)

16 Then I will ask the Father to send you the Holy Spirit who will help you and always be with you.
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The Christian faith has not been designed to create success or find pleasure in or even tolerate this world but rather to OVERCOME it!
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  #6  
Old 07-04-2011, 11:50 AM
JohnZain
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Was the Trinity included in Jesus’ gospel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuliano View Post
Seems as if you don't believe in "sola scriptura" yourself.
Seems you're being a tad negative about the article, so ...
Show me verses of Jesus' preaching (in the 4 gospels) where the Trinity is a part of His gospel?
(To the multitudes, not to His 11 or 12 disciples.)
.
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  #7  
Old 07-04-2011, 12:03 PM
JohnZain
 
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Default Re: Was the Trinity included in Jesus’ gospel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinderAsh View Post
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
From that moment on the trinity was and went out.
28 So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. 29 The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.”
Okay, we're getting somewhere.
But, your first quote has nothing to do with Jesus preaching to the multitudes.

This one is Jesus preaching to the pharisees in the temple (not exactly the multitudes, but close) ...

John 8:28
Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He,
and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.

Sorry, there's no "He" after "I AM" in the Greek manuscripts.
So, guess what He's really saying. And there are 6 more verses like this.
.
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  #8  
Old 07-04-2011, 12:07 PM
JohnZain
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Was the Trinity included in Jesus’ gospel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFrank View Post
In just a few words Jesus taught us the doctrine of the Trinity which cult members such as members of the Jehovah Witnesses coven , dispute at their own peril.
John 14:16 (Contemporary English Version)
16 Then I will ask the Father to send you the Holy Spirit who will help you and always be with you.
Yes, John 14:16-26 is my favorite passage.
However, you seem to have missed the point of Post #1.
I'm focusing on what Jesus preached (and didn't preach) to the multitudes.
.
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  #9  
Old 07-04-2011, 12:54 PM
Giuliano
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Was the Trinity included in Jesus’ gospel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZain View Post
Seems you're being a tad negative about the article, so ...
Show me verses of Jesus' preaching (in the 4 gospels) where the Trinity is a part of His gospel?
(To the multitudes, not to His 11 or 12 disciples.)
.
You're not serious, of course!
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  #10  
Old 07-04-2011, 05:29 PM
JohnZain
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Was the Trinity included in Jesus’ gospel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuliano View Post
You're not serious, of course!
Hey, paesano, what's a' happenin?
Of course I'm serious ... and don't forget about all those verses of Him preachin the Holy Spirit to the multitudes.
Hint: the Holy Spirit is part of the Trinity.

Last edited by JohnZain : 07-04-2011 at 05:32 PM.
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