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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > His Elect !

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  #1  
Old 06-02-2011, 10:54 AM
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Default His Elect !

Matt 24:31

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Does God have a elect people ? There is one scripture that says God's own elect. Lk 18:7

7And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Is the fact that God has an election a theory of a man name calvin, or is it a scriptural truth ? I believe those who in unbelief and disdain, that shrug off election and other similar truth's of scripture as that of being the mere opinion of a man, will have much to answer for in the day of Judgment, which is not far away.

I will by God's Grace provide scriptural proof that election is the word of God, in that God, before the world began, made a distinction, a election among His creature man, choosing who would be objects of His special and peculiar Love and Favor. To begin lets look at a few verses of scripture.

Deut 7:6; Ps 135:4; Isa 41:8-9

Deut 7:6

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

What is truly amazing, is that most adversaries of the blessed Truth of election, have no problem receiving this Truth here in Deut, however they accept it as being applied to a carnal, natural people, Natural Israel, ethnic jews, but they reject the ideal of it applying to a Spiritual People, of all different ethnicities, having been Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

I have news for you, the Chosen in Deut 7:6 are the same exact Chosen in Eph 1:4.

The Love God Loved them with in Deut 7:7

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

This is the same Love spoken of in Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

God does not have different Love, its always grounded in His elective purpose in Christ Jesus per Rom 8:39

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Now what makes us believe that this Love in Rom 8:39 is any different from the Love of God spoken of in Deut 7:7 ?

There is no difference, its the same Love, for the same People, just that in Rom the Love is found out to be of a wider dimension than first revealed in Deut 7:6-7. For God so loved the World in that same manner Nicodemus. Jn 3:16. Thats Jesus point in Jn 3:16, that God had a Chosen, special, peculiar, people unto Himself, above all other People upon the Face of the earth.

James describe them here Acts 15:

13And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

This is part of the same People God spoke to in Deut 7:6-7, but it was not known then, but they too are of the Seed of Abraham Gen 17:5

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

The Seed of Abraham, no matter what race or geographical location, are the Chosen or Elect of God.
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Old 06-03-2011, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: His Elect !

There is absolutely no question, the meaning of Election is that God Almighty has made a clear Choice, for the very word signifies a selection and appointment. God has exercised His own Sovereign prerogative and picked out from among His creatures of mankind, those whom He purposed to save by His Grace. Ps 135:4

4For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.

Notice unto Himself ! Now compare that statement with this one Titus 2:14

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Same People are they not ? Remember Paul addressed this epistle as unto the Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:2

1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect [Chosen], and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Now it should be understood, there is no election or selection or choice, without a deliberate singling out, and no singling out without passing by or rejection of the rest as per Rom 11:7

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The rest ! The word rest is the greek word loipos:

with a certain distinction and contrast, the rest, who are not of a specific class or number

The rest here means those jews who are not of a specific class or number, which would be the Election of Grace, God's Chosen People. You see, just being an ethnic jew born in the Nation of Israel, did not make one Chosen of God, one of His elect.
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Old 06-07-2011, 12:27 AM
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Default Re: His Elect !

Lets look at this principle of Divine Election within the writings of the NT. Matt 24:22,24, and 31

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

And no, these scriptures do not pertain to all earthly jews, but people of every tribe and tongue.

Lk 18:7

7And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

Rom 8:33

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

Rom 9:11

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

Paul preached the purpose of God according to election in His Gospel.

2 Tim 2:10

10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

This points to Eternal Salvation in Christ is for the elect's sake ! Christ must have died only for the elect !
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:03 AM
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Default Re: His Elect !

Got to hand it to you, you're having quite a conversation. I almost hate to interupt.

Matthew 22

1 Jesus began to speak to them in parables once again,

2 'The kingdom of Heaven may be compared to a king who gave a feast for his son's wedding.

3 He sent his servants to call those who had been invited, but they would not come.

4 Next he sent some more servants with the words, "Tell those who have been invited: Look, my banquet is all prepared, my oxen and fattened cattle have been slaughtered, everything is ready. Come to the wedding."

5 But they were not interested: one went off to his farm, another to his business,

6 and the rest seized his servants, maltreated them and killed them.

7 The king was furious. He despatched his troops, destroyed those murderers and burnt their town.

8 Then he said to his servants, "The wedding is ready; but as those who were invited proved to be unworthy,

9 go to the main crossroads and invite everyone you can find to come to the wedding."

10 So these servants went out onto the roads and collected together everyone they could find, bad and good alike; and the wedding hall was filled with guests.

11 When the king came in to look at the guests he noticed one man who was not wearing a wedding garment,

12 and said to him, "How did you get in here, my friend, without a wedding garment?" And the man was silent.

13 Then the king said to the attendants, "Bind him hand and foot and throw him into the darkness outside, where there will be weeping and grinding of teeth."

14 For many are invited but not all are chosen.'

What does it mean, "not wearing a wedding garment"? The elect are those who have received Jesus as Lord and Saviour, and also receive the Holy Spirit as teacher and comforter, living in the Spirit of the Word/Law.
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Matthew 23:12:
Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.

Last edited by thelowlyfisherman : 06-07-2011 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:36 AM
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Default Re: His Elect !

The Angels serve as an Example of Divine Election ! -



Paul writes of the Elect Angels 1 Tim 5:21

21I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

If there are elect Angels, this presupposes there were non elect ones as well. It appears with these creatures as well God made a Sovereign Choice of them who would be vessels of Honor and those who would be vessels of dishonor. The elect Angels who maintained there integrity were made vessels of Honor to serve His Holy Purposes, but the non elect angels He made to rebel with their leader and apostatize to also serve His Purpose. Rev 12:4

4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

In regards to these apostate creatures we read 2 Pet 2:4

4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

But these were different from those of the Elect Angels, the Election of Grace among them, for because of their Election they were confirmed in their Holiness. Their election was before their Holiness, hence securing it, just as some men are by election, Chosen unto Holiness Eph 1:4

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

And note, the none elect angels that rebelled, God had no mercy on them. This is vital because many religionists appeal to God as being too merciful and too loving to punish sinners everlastingly, but this account refutes that heresy, for are not angels His creatures ? Was God not still Love, even though He obviously did not Love these rebellious creatures to be merciful unto them for their sin ? The Chosen among Men partake of His Great Love and Mercy in spite of their Sin Eph 2:4-5

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

But, God chose not to show this rich mercy and great Love to the sinning angels. Could He if He so willed ? Yes He could have, but He chose not to. Was He still a God of Love as Per 1 John 4:8

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

But that fact did not obligate God to Love and be merciful to those angels, as well as it does not obligate God to be Love and be merciful to non elect men and women who have sinned also. So it is, we have an biblical example of Election with the Angels, and so it is with men.
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Old 06-08-2011, 08:07 AM
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Default Re: His Elect !

Simply put, love, faithfulness and loyalty lead to becoming elect.
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Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.
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Old 06-08-2011, 10:10 PM
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Default Re: His Elect !

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelowlyfisherman View Post
Simply put, love, faithfulness and loyalty lead to becoming elect.
Yes, I'd say faith is required to make our calling and election sure. And faith requires diligence.

2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Revelation has a similar passage -- the word translated as "elect" in many other places got translated as "chosen" here:

Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen {elect}, and faithful.

Many are called -- but those with him are those who were called AND chosen AND faithful.
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:22 PM
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Things to Know about the Elect, the Chosen of God !

Things to know about all those God hath Chosen to Salvation !

2 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

That they were Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4 ! Thats why Paul says they were bound to give Thanks to God for them. Not their freewill choice or decision as the antichrist followers would have us believe.

That they are redeemed by the precious blood of Christ because they are Elect 1 Pet 1:2,18,19

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Lets look at the word redeemed here. It is the greek word lutroo and means:

to release on receipt of ransom
to redeem, liberate by payment of ransom
to liberate
to cause to be released to one's self by payment of a ransom
to redeem
to deliver: from evils of every kind, internal and external

Because the ransom price has been paid, the blood of Christ, they must be delivered from evil of every kind. One of the Evils they all are delivered from is unbelief. Yes Unbelief is a evil Heb 3:12

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

If one Christ died for, gave His life a ransom for, never becomes a believer or dies in unbelief, then that means Christ blood was defective.

That word unbelief is also used for paul here 1 Tim 1:13

13Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

But because Christ gave Himself for Paul , God delivered Him from unbelief .

So those Chosen before the world began are in time redeemed from evil or delivered from evil, especially that of unbelief, thats the power of the ransom blood of Christ.
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:43 PM
CatholicCrusader
 
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Default Re: His Elect !

Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
..........I will by God's Grace provide scriptural proof that election is the word of God, in that God, before the world began, made a distinction, a election among His creature man, choosing who would be objects of His special and peculiar Love and Favor...........

No you won't, because its not true.

How many threads is this now that say the exact same thing? Fifteen? Twenty? Twenty Five?

No matter how many ways you try to package this garbage, its still garbage. Now matter how many times you try to make God the author of evil - which is what you do in every thread - you cannot make God the author of evil.

You keep making God the author of evil? Fine. I will keep stating that God is not the author of evil. Once again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
We have seen in this thread one view of Christianity, that no matter what a person does, he is damned to Hell - or saved - before he is even born. That is Calvinism, as put forth by the OP.

Who here really buys that? Who here believes in such a cruel hopeless God? Even if you are evangelized, come to believe in God, have faith, and do your best to be a good Christian, it is all for naught if God has already decided that you are damned to Hell. This is what the OP would have us a believe, and I must say that of all the variations of Christianity that are out there these days, this must be one of the most hopeless forms. There is no hope for you from the moment you are born if God has already condemned you. The “Good News” is only good for a few of you: For the rest, it is the News You Can Never Make Your Own.

Now here is another view, from Section One of the Catechism of the Catholic Church:


I. The life of man - to know and love God

1 God, infinitely perfect and blessed in himself, in a plan of sheer goodness freely created man to make him share in his own blessed life. For this reason, at every time and in every place, God draws close to man. He calls man to seek him, to know him, to love him with all his strength. He calls together all men, scattered and divided by sin, into the unity of his family, the Church. To accomplish this, when the fullness of time had come, God sent his Son as Redeemer and Saviour. In his Son and through him, he invites men to become, in the Holy Spirit, his adopted children and thus heirs of his blessed life.

2 So that this call should resound throughout the world, Christ sent forth the apostles he had chosen, commissioning them to proclaim the gospel: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." Strengthened by this mission, the apostles "went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by the signs that attended it."

3 Those who with God's help have welcomed Christ's call and freely responded to it are urged on by love of Christ to proclaim the Good News everywhere in the world. This treasure, received from the apostles, has been faithfully guarded by their successors. All Christ's faithful are called to hand it on from generation to generation, by professing the faith, by living it in fraternal sharing, and by celebrating it in liturgy and prayer.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText


Yes! God calls all men to seek him and share in his blessed life. Of course, not all men hear or heed the call: Some choose a life of sin and deny their creator. BUT THEY CHOOSE!! God does not damm the innocent to Hell as the OP would have us believe. It is written:

Deuteronomy 30:19: "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live"

WE CHOOSE!!

Last edited by CatholicCrusader : 07-26-2011 at 03:53 PM.
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