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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Gender of God ?

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  #1  
Old 04-24-2011, 10:33 PM
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Default Gender of God ?

Hello there.
I know Genesis states God is both male and female but do you think the maleness of God is overstated in the Bible? Why Father Son and Holy Spirit?While I accept Jesus was male Why not Mother Daughter and Holy Spirit ? Or why not gender neutral or inclusive.
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  #2  
Old 04-24-2011, 11:29 PM
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Default Re: Gender of God ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Experiential View Post
Hello there.
I know Genesis states God is both male and female but do you think the maleness of God is overstated in the Bible? Why Father Son and Holy Spirit?While I accept Jesus was male Why not Mother Daughter and Holy Spirit ? Or why not gender neutral or inclusive.
Where do you believe that Genesis states that God is both male and female?
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  #3  
Old 04-25-2011, 08:42 AM
Giuliano
 
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Default Re: Gender of God ?

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Originally Posted by Experiential View Post
Hello there.
I know Genesis states God is both male and female but do you think the maleness of God is overstated in the Bible?
Not really.

Quote:
Why Father Son and Holy Spirit?
Why is the Father considered "male" in principle?

He provides a "seed" of divinity which can then mature into a "son of God." (I call both men and women "sons of God" once mature, being neither male nor female spiritually.) That "seed" is sown in "Mother Earth" if you want a maternal figure. Paul says it is sown corruptible and raised in the incorruptible.

The "Son" is like the "Father." Jesus who could sow the "seeds" of divinity within men and women is "male" by principle.

There may be a reference somewhere in the New Testament about the Holy Spirit being "male," but I think of it as "female" since the Hebrew word is "shekinah" which is feminine. Yes, the "glory of God" is feminine. Jewish women light the Sabbath candles because they say light left the world through a woman and must return through a woman. If what Jews think doesn't matter, you can consider that it was Mother Mary who was the vessel by which the Light entered the world.

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While I accept Jesus was male Why not Mother Daughter and Holy Spirit ? Or why not gender neutral or inclusive.
Male is used to depict that which is above while female is used to depict that which is below and which brings forth new life using the feminine principle contained with "mother earth."

Taoism also portrays Heaven as masculine and tells us that the Sage must play the "feminine part."

N keeping the spirit and the vital soul together,
Are you able to maintain their perfect harmony?
In gathering your vital energy to attain suppleness,
Have you reached the state of a new-bom babe?
In washing and clearing your inner vision,
Have you purified it of all dross?
In loving your people and governing your state,
Are you able to dispense with cleverness?
In the opening and shutting of heaven's gate,
Are you able to play the feminine part?
Enlightened and seeing far into all directions,
Can you at the same time remain detached and
non-active?


It also says that the feminine "masters" the "masculine" by remaining quiet. What did Mother Mary "learn" or "know'? What did she "do"?

She said, "Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word." Thus Mary brought Light into the world, by being willing to do nothing.

I also agree with St. Catherine of Sienna who depicts the soul as feminine. Our souls should play the "feminine" part to Heaven.

Reducing the Scriptures to gender-neutral language would conceal the role of the feminine in the scheme of things. For us to become part of the Bride of Christ, we must see ourselves as taking the "feminine role" and then we will "bear fruit." Jesus isn't going to have spiritual offspring by himself. While it is true that he is neither male nor female, he plays the role of "Sower of the seeds" to our playing the role of the earth which receives it.
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  #4  
Old 04-25-2011, 07:18 PM
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Default Re: Gender of God ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Experiential View Post
Why Father Son and Holy Spirit?While I accept Jesus was male Why not Mother Daughter and Holy Spirit ? Or why not gender neutral or inclusive.
Because it was a male oriented society when the scriptures were written. Women had no place in religion then (and are refused a place in some religions today - I'll mention no names).

They were even considered simple vessels for producing children. The male supplied the homunculus and the woman just stored it as it grew. No-one back then would have considered that Jesus had a genetic link to his mother as we know it now.

Which raises the question: why so much effort in listing His geneology if neither parent had any biological link to the son?
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  #5  
Old 04-25-2011, 08:40 PM
Mark's Avatar
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Default Re: Gender of God ?

I heard species 8472 has 6 genders... why not that?
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  #6  
Old 04-26-2011, 03:50 AM
alphaomega
 
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Default Re: Gender of God ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Experiential View Post
Hello there.
I know Genesis states God is both male and female but do you think the maleness of God is overstated in the Bible? Why Father Son and Holy Spirit?While I accept Jesus was male Why not Mother Daughter and Holy Spirit ? Or why not gender neutral or inclusive.
the nature of female is that
which is created on this earth for producing an off spring
in the case of mankind the origin of "female"
is eve ; and she is taken from adam
all who are born ; come from eve ; who is a part of adam

if there is a female part in heaven
or a refference to what the female is ;
it would have to be that of what jesus does ;
as jesus brings forth life ;
as he is the creator of all things

jesus like eve ; is that part which comes from another
eve is just a part of adam ;
jesus is a part of god
but this is not less than god ;
but god in a separte form

he example we see of this is shown
in the creation story of genesis one
as we look at the water

we have water
----------------------------------------------------- god
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ water

next we have water separting from water
leaving this picture ---------------------------------

water ------------------------> water jesus
......................................... expance

........................................... land
...........................................water holy spirit



like eve is adam ;
jesus is still water ( god) ;
but now appears as water ( god) in a separate form

final thought

he nature of angels is that of male ;
for they do not produce an offspring

it is that producing an off spring
which makes it female
and that female originates from coming from and being part of the male


what is listed above is the "orginal" forming of female
the male of today ( any after adam )
are not having female taken out of them
they ( male) hold no superior position to female today
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  #7  
Old 04-26-2011, 06:15 AM
Giuliano
 
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Default Re: Gender of God ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
Because it was a male oriented society when the scriptures were written. Women had no place in religion then (and are refused a place in some religions today - I'll mention no names).

They were even considered simple vessels for producing children. The male supplied the homunculus and the woman just stored it as it grew. No-one back then would have considered that Jesus had a genetic link to his mother as we know it now.

Which raises the question: why so much effort in listing His geneology if neither parent had any biological link to the son?
The earliest idea about the homunculus was in the Third Century, apparently the brainchild of an Egyptian mystic and gnostic. I believe the Old Testament was written before that, so I wouldn't confuse the later musings of people who adopted this theory with the Jewish idea.

Women were far more than "simple vessels." The spiritual battle is between the "seed of the woman" and the "seed of the serpent."

The lineage of "Jews" is traced through the males; but in order to be a Jew, your mother must be "Jewish." Hagar was a pagan when she bore Ishmael, so it was impossible that he be the child of promise. Ruth had been a pagan but converted, so it was possible for Boaz to marry her -- and through this, the line of the "cursed" Moabites entered the Messianic line.

Women can convert more easily; and when they do, it is not an impairment to their children. Men can convert, but there is something about them which doesn't change. Thus the many stories of how Jews intermarried foreign women who had converted show how the "Gentile" lines were grafted onto the Tree of Life.

Strictly speaking, this dependence on the necessity of "holy children" being born to "holy women" continues today; but today, it is possible for Jesus to alter the males in a way which was not previously possible. And that was dependent in its own way on his Mother, Mary, who corrected the problem introduced by Eve. A man couldn't have done that -- because the war was between the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent.

The same imagery exists in Revelation where the dragon is warring with the woman.

I realize I probably won't convince you of the soundness of my theological points; but please note that Genesis uses the phrase "seed of the woman" meaning she is more than a "vessel" for bearing children.
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  #8  
Old 05-05-2011, 12:59 AM
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Default Re: Gender of God ?

Thank you all for your insights on this. Yes the more I research it I come to the following conclusions -
1. The bible writers lived in paternalisic socieities so that has influenced the transcription of the scriptures.
2. "Son" as in father and Son iwhile it is a male noun it is not a gender term. It means 'descendent' or 'inheritor'. So in that we as disciples of the High god are all descendents whether male or female - we are all Sons of god.
3. Interestingly common names for the Holy Spirit such as Shekhina or Ruakh are female nouns.
Any way thanks to you all and keep it comming!!!
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Old 05-16-2011, 03:04 AM
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Default Re: Gender of God ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Experiential View Post
Hello there.
I know Genesis states God is both male and female but do you think the maleness of God is overstated in the Bible? Why Father Son and Holy Spirit?While I accept Jesus was male Why not Mother Daughter and Holy Spirit ? Or why not gender neutral or inclusive.
You say that Genesis states that God is both male and female? thats news to me! I have done extensive research into the book of genisis and I cannot find anything that even hints that God is both male and female! In 1 Cor 11:6-10 we read:
"7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. NKJV

According to Genisis chapter 2, God made adam. then some time later he decided that it was not good for adam to be alone. So God brings all of the animals before adam and he names them. (without the help of a wife.) Then not finding a helper that was sutable abong all the animals; God made a helpmate (i.e. a submissive servant was also a companion.) from one of adams ribs. And thus woman came into existance. And according to 1 Cor. she was made for the purpose of being a helper for man. not the other way around. And because 1 Cor 11 makes it plain that Adam was created in the image of God, and woman was not, we can conclude that God is male!

Also, those who have died and gone to heaven and seen God and have come back to tell us about their experiance always tell us that God is male. He speaks whith a male voice and has a male form! It is totally rediculuse to even think that God would be both male and female at the same time!

Sorry but the notion that women are equel to men is simply not found in the scriptures. They are united together in Christ's body, but they do not have equal authority in Christs body!
1 Cor 11:2-3
3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. NKJV

shalom
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  #10  
Old 05-16-2011, 06:04 AM
Giuliano
 
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Default Re: Gender of God ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by theophilus1 View Post
You say that Genesis states that God is both male and female? thats news to me! I have done extensive research into the book of genisis and I cannot find anything that even hints that God is both male and female!
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The word translated as "God" there is "elohim." "Eloh" means goddess, and -im is the masculine plural ending. The translation has problems elsewhere too; but "man" should read "the-man" or "the adam." In Hebrew, that's h'adam. It's not "Adam" the person. The original "man" was neither male nor female but both.

The ultimate state is neither male nor female. People will be like the angels -- and so they will not marry or be given n marriage (Matthew 22:30).
Quote:
In 1 Cor 11:6-10 we read:
"7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9 Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. NKJV
This does not contradict what Genesis says, the original "h'adam" was both male and female.

Quote:
According to Genisis chapter 2, God made adam. then some time later he decided that it was not good for adam to be alone. So God brings all of the animals before adam and he names them. (without the help of a wife.) Then not finding a helper that was sutable abong all the animals; God made a helpmate (i.e. a submissive servant was also a companion.) from one of adams ribs. And thus woman came into existance.
Actually the Hebrew does not use the word "rib." Hebrew has another word for rib -- the word in Genesis is "side." Eve was taken from the side of h'adam. In like fashion, we see the Church being taken from the side of Jesus on the Cross when "blood and water" came from his side.

Quote:
And according to 1 Cor. she was made for the purpose of being a helper for man. not the other way around. And because 1 Cor 11 makes it plain that Adam was created in the image of God, and woman was not, we can conclude that God is male!
This contradicts what Genesis says that "the man" or "h'adam" was made in the image and likeness of God, male and female.


Quote:
Also, those who have died and gone to heaven and seen God and have come back to tell us about their experiance always tell us that God is male. He speaks whith a male voice and has a male form! It is totally rediculuse to even think that God would be both male and female at the same time!
Then "Adam" the person, the male person, was not made in the image and likeness of God!

I think it foolish to put the limitations of human existence on God.



Mark 10:6 KJV But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

Galatians 3:28 KJV There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.


Most angels also appear as male when they show up on earth; but there are exceptions. In most cases, when angels appear on earth, they come with an active mission. Their "female half" remains in Heaven while the "male half" manifests on earth. It is not always so, however, since Zechariah mentions female angels.

Sorry but the notion that women are equel to men is simply not found in the scriptures. They are united together in Christ's body, but they do not have equal authority in Christs body!
1 Cor 11:2-3
3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. NKJV

shalom[/quote]I would say they have different roles; and until we become like the angels in Heaven, being neither male nor female, we should follow the roles assigned to us.

In some ways, the role of the woman is higher than that of the man although she is "lower" in the chain of hierarchy; but the accomplishments of women spiritually are not performed by using "authority."
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