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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Where'd He go? Where is He now?

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Old 04-22-2011, 05:32 AM
xenic101's Avatar
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Default Where'd He go? Where is He now?

With Easter fast approaching, I find myself wondering what others might think/believe on a couple of points.

When Jesus was crucified, he told the thief on the cross, that He would be with him the next day in "paradise". A few days later, after the resurrection, Christ told the apostles that He had not yet been to His Father. We know that "paradise" used here refers to a "spirit world", and apparently not Heaven, where the Father is. Where was Jesus for those three days?

After Christ's resurrection, he clearly possessed a physical body. He walked, talked and ate with his apostles. Since he wasn't resurrected "temporarily" he should still have a physical body. Where is Jesus physically located right now? If not, why?

I'm not asking for the recently popular reason of waiting a few posts then telling everyone they're wrong and I figured it out because "resurrection" has the value of some number in Hebrew and if you take every that numberth word from the "original" Greek of John and write it backwards while holding it in front of a mirror and squinting then it could be mistaken for some Hebrew word for something significant. I'm just wondering what everyone else thinks/believes. (everyone except ks2010 that is)
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Old 04-22-2011, 05:57 AM
Giuliano
 
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Default Re: Where'd He go? Where is He now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xenic101 View Post
With Easter fast approaching, I find myself wondering what others might think/believe on a couple of points.
You asked; and since I trust you not to jump on me if you disagree with me, I'll dare (for once) to be frank.

Quote:
When Jesus was crucified, he told the thief on the cross, that He would be with him the next day in "paradise". A few days later, after the resurrection, Christ told the apostles that He had not yet been to His Father. We know that "paradise" used here refers to a "spirit world", and apparently not Heaven, where the Father is. Where was Jesus for those three days?
Ask the next Rabbi you meet where Paradise is. The word means "garden." Jesus met the thief in Paradise. The thief certainly did not go to Heaven. Jesus also visited the underworld in between his crucifixion and resurrection.

Quote:
After Christ's resurrection, he clearly possessed a physical body. He walked, talked and ate with his apostles. Since he wasn't resurrected "temporarily" he should still have a physical body. Where is Jesus physically located right now? If not, why?
Ah, he could also appear and disappear at will. That body, while as solid enough for Thomas to touch him, was also not limited the way ours are. Jesus could make it vanish or appear. It was a vehicle for him after the Resurrection, not a prison the way ours are. He doesn't need to have that body if he doesn't want it. It's now a matter of voluntarily projection.

He could also create duplicates of that body if he wishes. He can even project his Presence into material objects such as the Host of Communion.

This is the body "born from above" which can move like the wind. Is there really any need to speculate when we can see that he had a different type of body that could appear and disappear at will?
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Old 04-22-2011, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: Where'd He go? Where is He now?

Even worse than jumping on you, I mostly agree with most of it. I believe that during those 3 days, Christ was in the spirit world where mankind goes before judgment and resurrection. Further, I believe that while there He established His church there as well, and that the righteous of the ages were called to preach His gospel to those who had not yet heard or accepted it, and that this effort of bringing all mankind into His flock continues and will continue until the final judgment.

As for where He is now, I do disagree with you I think. While his resurrected body isn't bound by the same laws of mortality as ours are, I believe he still has a physical body, and that he is sitting/standing/walking or some other real physical activity right now. Of course this is happening in a reality outside our understanding so speculating on it is as you imply, not really important. I don't hold with the idea that our bodies are prisons, or in some way punishment or in any form a bad thing. I believe that in this life we are bound by mortality, but that through the resurrection, those bounds are broken and we will exist fully as a physical and spiritual being. Christ does so now, having been resurrected, and is currently somewhere outside our knowledge, preaching His gospel to help others return to God's presence. But not everyone believes that, and I suspect those people don't believe that He just vanished in a puff of smoke, and so I wonder.
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Old 04-23-2011, 06:59 AM
Giuliano
 
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Default Re: Where'd He go? Where is He now?

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Originally Posted by xenic101 View Post
Even worse than jumping on you, I mostly agree with most of it. I believe that during those 3 days, Christ was in the spirit world where mankind goes before judgment and resurrection. Further, I believe that while there He established His church there as well, and that the righteous of the ages were called to preach His gospel to those who had not yet heard or accepted it, and that this effort of bringing all mankind into His flock continues and will continue until the final judgment.
While I can't say exactly what happened, what you say makes sense to me -- I think the patterns of everything got changed.

Quote:
As for where He is now, I do disagree with you I think. While his resurrected body isn't bound by the same laws of mortality as ours are, I believe he still has a physical body, and that he is sitting/standing/walking or some other real physical activity right now. Of course this is happening in a reality outside our understanding so speculating on it is as you imply, not really important. I don't hold with the idea that our bodies are prisons, or in some way punishment or in any form a bad thing.
If we are slaves to the lusts of the flesh, wouldn't you say our bodies have imprisoned us?

I think you may agree that Adam and Eve did not have physical bodies like ours at first. The descent into physical bodies is shown, I believe, by the passage that says God clothed them in "skin." The KJV mistranslates that as "skins" implying God killed animals; but the Hebrew has it in the singular.

This may go back to the question if people can sin before they're born. I think so, since Paul says everyone once knew God but refused to give Him the glory. They worshiped the created instead of the Creator. If we believe we can become more godlike by loving God, why wouldn't we take on materialistic aspects if we loved matter? The spirit which conceives the idea that it is matter is trapped in matter.

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I believe that in this life we are bound by mortality, but that through the resurrection, those bounds are broken and we will exist fully as a physical and spiritual being.
Very good -- and who is responsible for being bound my the mortal bodies? God isn't. Adam blamed Eve and Eve blamed the serpent. Should we follow their example and blame them? In a way, yes; but in another way no.

More to the point is the fact that even if we were to rid ourselves of sin, there is still something in the physical body itself which would kill it. You can call this principle "death" -- and it seems to be a real sort of consciousness. I believe Jesus saw "death" clearly and defeated it, so he can defeat on behalf of us, just as Adam introduced death on behalf of us.
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Christ does so now, having been resurrected, and is currently somewhere outside our knowledge, preaching His gospel to help others return to God's presence. But not everyone believes that, and I suspect those people don't believe that He just vanished in a puff of smoke, and so I wonder.
Let me put my ideas this way. It may give people the wrong impression if we say Jesus has a "physical" body since they might believe that body would obey the "laws of physics" as we understand them. I don't believe he's limited by time or space, being able to be anywhere he wants instantly. Language is often a problem.
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Old 04-25-2011, 12:01 AM
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Default Re: Where'd He go? Where is He now?

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If we are slaves to the lusts of the flesh, wouldn't you say our bodies have imprisoned us?
But I disagree with your "If". I think we can allow ourselves to become slaves to lusts, however I also believe that the Lord has given us the means to overcome those lusts, retaining our freedom with His help.

I think we have a fundamental difference of views on mortality. While not risk free, nor by any means easy, I see it as a necessary step in our eternal progression. I simply don't see it as a bad or lesser existence, but as the second half of our complete existence.
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:01 AM
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Default Re: Where'd He go? Where is He now?

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenic101 View Post
With Easter fast approaching, I find myself wondering what others might think/believe on a couple of points.

When Jesus was crucified, he told the thief on the cross, that He would be with him the next day in "paradise". A few days later, after the resurrection, Christ told the apostles that He had not yet been to His Father. We know that "paradise" used here refers to a "spirit world", and apparently not Heaven, where the Father is.
Quote:
Posted by Giuliano
Ask the next Rabbi you meet where Paradise is. The word means "garden."
Perhaps a place from death where in spirit form the Holy Spirit (promised by the Father) reveals the final knowledge (understand the scriptures) of ones life and the purpose of Jesus in ones life and growth of a new being begins.
The thief will begin to grow and be nourished by the experiencing of witnessing Jesus and passing into the garden to grow a new born spirit by the Spirit.
A garden where eating fruit from the tree of life; Jesus.

Quote:
Where was Jesus for those three days?

A guess might be that Jesus had 3 days of reflection in that spiritual garden, registering of what had happened and taking in God's purpose for him. A final ripening.

Quote:
After Christ's resurrection, he clearly possessed a physical body. He walked, talked and ate with his apostles. Since he wasn't resurrected "temporarily" he should still have a physical body.
I don't believe it is important as it was flesh he had to die of and to me it would not be a physical body as we recognize.

The spirit in us might recognize the spirit in Jesus and this could be manifested as physical sight or touch but of spirit.

15 As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; 16 but they were kept from recognizing him.
......Perhaps by ones spirit.

30 When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. 31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. 32 They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”......Perhaps by ones spirit.

Eating, walking, talking and touching might be ways of convincing the disciples of the message he brought to the world.

45 Then he opened their minds so they could (understand the Scriptures.) 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 I am going to send you (what my Father has promised) but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

Quote:
Where is Jesus physically located right now?

The Ascension of Jesus
50 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51 While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. 52 Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. 53 And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.

Last edited by CinderAsh : 04-25-2011 at 04:04 AM.
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Old 04-25-2011, 09:37 AM
Giuliano
 
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Default Re: Where'd He go? Where is He now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinderAsh View Post
Perhaps a place from death where in spirit form the Holy Spirit (promised by the Father) reveals the final knowledge (understand the scriptures) of ones life and the purpose of Jesus in ones life and growth of a new being begins.
The thief will begin to grow and be nourished by the experiencing of witnessing Jesus and passing into the garden to grow a new born spirit by the Spirit.
A garden where eating fruit from the tree of life; Jesus.
That is exactly right. The thief went to Paradise, not Heaven. Most people do go to Paradise. On this earth, few find the "strait and narrow" gate. But "many" will sit down in the kingdom with Abraham -- in Paradise.

Did you know that Jews say Paradise and Gehenna are next to each other? Jesus hinted at this too in the story about the rich man and Lazarus where Abraham can see into Gehenna.

It's no mystery. They are next to each other.

We have stories by famous rabbis who visited Paradise. They said it was "water, water, water." That's right too.

There have also been cases when members of the Sanhedrin visited Paradise to seek advice. They did so in the case of Simon Bar Kokhba to find out what they should do. They obeyed the Heavenly advice and did not resist the Romans; and I believe eleven of them were put to death, Rabbi Ahiva among them. (Ahiva is one who had traveled to Paradise.)

Who will dwell on God's "holy hill" the Psalmist asks. He doesn't tell us where the "holy hill" is -- but it's a spiritual hill or mountain -- the spiritual Mount Zion.

The Jews also say that Ezekiel's Temple is there. Yes, it's there spiritually; and in the Messianic Age, when the minds of men are ready, it will appear -- everyone will be able to see it. I think it foolish to think it's not already there; after all, Ezekiel measured it.

We should aim for the strait and narrow gate in this life because failing to aim for it means missing opportunities. There really is a point to living in this world; and the more things we can overcome now, the better. Miss too many, and we may not find ourselves in Paradise.
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