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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > What about Adam ?

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  #1  
Old 04-06-2011, 07:36 AM
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Default What about Adam ?

Have you ever wondered that if Adam would not have sinned, and lived a perfect sin free life, if He would have inherited eternal life ?


If Adam [Mankind] had remained unfallen, without transgression, then He nor men in him could have entered that Kingdom of Eternal Glory to which all believers in Christ were destined before the foundation Matt 25:

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

2 tim 4:18

And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

At best, the life we had in Adam was earthly 1 cor 15:

46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So if Adam would have continued perfect in the flesh and blood he was created in, He could not inherit the kingdom of God, prepared for the sheep from the foundation, remember, at his best, Adam was still flesh and blood..

hebrews 2 :

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood [In Adam], he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And scripture says this 1 cor 15:

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So Man at His best unfallen state in flesh and blood, cannot inherit the kingdom of God..

As Jesus said, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, even Adam, in His unfallen state needed to be born again if He was to inherit the Kingdom of Glory..
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

Quote:
Beloved57: So Man at His best unfallen state in flesh and blood, cannot inherit the kingdom of God..

As Jesus said, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, even Adam, in His unfallen state needed to be born again if He was to inherit the Kingdom of Glory..
But... wasn't Adam alive until he died? Didn't he die when he disobeyed God and ate of the wrong tree? Were not Adam and all of his natural offspring up to and including you and me born dead in the eyes of God? That would not have changed for anyone until they were "born from above" or "born again".
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Old 04-06-2011, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

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Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
But... wasn't Adam alive until he died? Didn't he die when he disobeyed God and ate of the wrong tree? Were not Adam and all of his natural offspring up to and including you and me born dead in the eyes of God? That would not have changed for anyone until they were "born from above" or "born again".
May I interject here that it is not clear to me that Adam and Eve were in material bodies until after the fall when God made them garments of skin. In a discussion with an Orthodox Jew, I learned that Genesis reads "skin" in the singular, not "skins" in the plural.

I can only theorize why it's mistranslated that way, but I suppose it's because people imagined that God killed animals and made clothes out of the skins; but that's not stated. It's "skin" in the singular.

Thus, some Jews say Adam and Eve had spiritual bodies at first -- bodies of Light. This is where my question came from earlier: Did they have bodies for which they were to acquire garments of Light?

Your point about "born from above" is spot-on. This must be accomplished by the "Son of Man" -- who came down and can come down from Heaven. "Son of Man" means "Son of Adam" of course.

Adam was not made dead but became dead. Paul writes of it that he was made a "living soul." There are two words in the Hebrew which denote life -- "chay nephesh." Adam was meant to become a "quickening spirit" by reproducing in the image and likeness of God. He did not. Thus, something was lost to his offspring. The "image of God" given to Adam was restored by Jesus who can reproduce spiritually.

People were angry when Jesus called himself "Son of Man," but he was basically telling certain envious people that they lacked the right image and likeness -- they did not have the image and likeness of God given to Adam and intended to be passed on. So if the "Son of Man" comes down from Heaven, wouldn't "The Man" also have been in Heaven? Surely, but he fell and became a "beast" himself -- with the nature of the serpent instead of the "man."

All this can get lost in English since Hebrew has different words which are translated as "man" and "adam" is sometimes translated as "man" and sometimes as "adam."

What is clear is that the "beast" below, without the Son of Man coming down, cannot be saved -- cannot inherit the kingdom, cannot go to Heaven. The bridegroom can take the bride with him; but the bride by herself cannot enter. The two must become one. A new creature must be "born."
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

ama:

Quote:
But... wasn't Adam alive until he died?
Yes, Physical life in the flesh, earthy. But that kinda life cannot get you in the Eternal Kingdom..
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:23 AM
Moses
 
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

The Word of God i.e the Law is a tree of life to these who bwhold it.

So God in grace gave us, sent us his Word and by this he who beholds the Word eats of the tree of life.
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Old 04-28-2011, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

Titus 1:


1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;




Eternal Life was promised before the world began. Many mistake and believe that Adam and man in Him, had eternal life and that the continuance of it depended upon a condition, that condition being, if Adam [ Man] did not disobey God and eat of the Tree He was told not to eat from.

So from that reasoning, life eternal was not promised on a premise made by God before the world began, but after time began, and conditioned on the obedience of man who was made of the dust of the ground. Can anyone see the discrepancy with this faulty thinking, and what Paul writes in Titus 1 ?

2 Tim 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of [eternal ] life which is in Christ Jesus,

1 jn 2:25

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

5:

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son

Now who could it have been that God promised Eternal life to before the world began ? Was it Adam ? Was it the Last Adam ?
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Old 04-28-2011, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
So if Adam would have continued perfect in the flesh and blood he was created in, He could not inherit the kingdom of God, prepared for the sheep from the foundation, remember, at his best, Adam was still flesh and blood..
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.


I suggest at that time it was all the Kingdom of God.
Maybe not inherited but born, created into.

He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”

Up until that point I suggest he had eternal life.


On earth as it is in heaven should be the goal now.
The way I see it, it is!
Well, it's a bit of hell as well!
This side of the cross opposed to that side of the cross.
In through the gate. Out through the gate.
Thank God in his image for the promise of love!
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

If Adam had not sinned, what would have happened ? What if he had not disobeyed God and he had been granted to eat of the tree of life ? Where would he have enjoyed God’s gift of everlasting life ? In heaven ? Not at all. God said nothing about Adam’s being taken to heaven. His work assignment was here on earth. The Bible explains that “Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree desirable to one’s sight and good for food,” and it says: “Jehovah God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of Eden to cultivate it and to take care of it.” (Genesis 2:9, 15)

God blessed Adam and Eve after their creation, giving them these instructions: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.”(Gen 1:28) To fulfill that wonderful commission, our original parents would need to keep on living—forever—and so would their offspring. Nothing suggested tragedy, injustice, heartache, or death.

Thus, our original parents were to expand the boundaries of the Garden of Eden until it encompassed the whole earth and then enjoy life forever in a paradise.("paradise", the Greek Septuagint rendered the Hebrew word gan, meaning "garden", by the Greek word pa·ra′dei·sos. To this fact we owe our association of the English word “paradise” with the garden of Eden)

Jesus, when on the torture stake, told one of the evil-doers that showed a deep interest in his kingdom: "Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”(Luke 23:43) Jesus used the Greek word pa·ra′dei·sos to give a real hope to the dying evil-doer, of living again by means of a resurrection from the dead and have the confidence of enjoying life on a paradise earth, not in heaven. In fact, God's kingdom was formed (in which only a small number or "little flock" are selected to rule in it, Luke 12:32) in order to bring to completion God's purpose of a paradise earth.(Isa 55:10, 11)

That this is the case, Jesus said: "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth."(Matt 5:5, King James Bible) He was quoting from David at Psalms 37:11, which reads: "But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace." David was further inspired to write at verse 29: "The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it."
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Old 05-07-2011, 09:44 AM
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

I have read the previous comments of others, but this earth or world, was not created for Adam, but Adam and this world were created for Christ and His redemptive purpose of salvation.

Col 1:

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

All things in the beginning were created for Him as the Head of the body, the church.
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Old 05-07-2011, 02:27 PM
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

That God made the earth for man's habitation, is seen at Isaiah 45:18: "For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the true God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited: “I am Jehovah, and there is no one else." Had Adam not rebelled at the "order of Jehovah" (see Deut 1:26), no human would have been chosen "for (the) heavenly calling"(Heb 3:1), there would have been no need for them to gain "entry into the holy place by the blood of Jesus."(Heb 10:19)

Had Adam never sinned ("sin", Hebrew chat·ta’th´; Greek ha·mar·ti´a, meaning to "miss", as in shooting an arrow, missing the "mark" of perfect obedience), having done as Jesus himself said of his Father: "I always do the things pleasing to him"(John 8:29), Adam, Eve, and their offspring would have extended the paradise boundaries of the Garden of Eden to the ends of the earth, with death never having "ruled as king" as it has since the days of Adam's rebellion.(Rom 5:14)

David was inspired to write that Jehovah God "has founded the earth upon its established places; It will not be made to totter to time indefinite ("time indefinite", Hebrew ‛oh·lam´), or forever ("forever", Hebrew ‛adh)."(Ps 104:5) Solomon, under inspiration, wrote that "Jehovah himself in wisdom founded the earth. He solidly fixed the heavens in discernment."(Prov 3:19) Ecclesiastes 1:4 says: "One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever."(King James Bible)

In the last book of the Bible, Revelation, next to the last chapter, it said: "With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away. And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also, he says: “Write, because these words are faithful and true.”(Rev 21:3-5)

Where is death, tears shed from sorrow, mourning or outcry at ? In heaven ? No, but on the earth, for our Creator has purposed for the earth to be a paradise, transformed from it's existing unclean and damaged condition, to as was in the Garden of Eden, in which before Adam's defection, was perfect, with nothing flawed, no sickness, sorrow or death, but only total harmony. Hence, before Adam followed an independent spirit (though moments earlier Eve had listened to Satan as the "original serpent", Gen 3:1-7) , nowhere in the universe was there any discord.

When Revelation 21:3-5 is fulfilled, the earth and all the universe will again be in total accord. Those who measure up to being "meek" ones as per the standards set by God will then live forever, as he originally purposed. The earth was designed as man's home for all eternity, living here in the "abundance of peace."(Ps 37:11, 29)

That this will be fulfilled, having "certain success", is seen at Isaiah 55:11, in which God says, "so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it."

The apostle Paul wrote of God that "it is according to his good pleasure which he purposed in himself for an administration ("administration", literally, “house administration; household management.” Greek, oi·ko·no·mi´an; Latin, di·spen·sa·ti·o´nem) at the full limit of the appointed times, namely, to gather all things together again in the Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth."(Eph 1:9, 10)

Thus, our Creator, Jehovah God, "in his good pleasure", will insure that "the things on the earth" are restored to perfection, as in the Garden of Eden before Adam sought an independent course, as Genesis 1:31 says that "God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good."

After the final test at the end of the Millennial reign of Christ Jesus (Rev 20:7-10), and in which Jesus now "hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power" (1 Cor 15:24), with Adamic death now destroyed and the mass graves of mankind having been emptied (Rev 20:13,14), the "meek" will now enjoy the earth forever.

Last edited by jaareshiah : 05-07-2011 at 02:41 PM.
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