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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > What about Adam ?

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  #1  
Old 04-06-2011, 07:36 AM
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Default What about Adam ?

Have you ever wondered that if Adam would not have sinned, and lived a perfect sin free life, if He would have inherited eternal life ?


If Adam [Mankind] had remained unfallen, without transgression, then He nor men in him could have entered that Kingdom of Eternal Glory to which all believers in Christ were destined before the foundation Matt 25:

34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

2 tim 4:18

And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

At best, the life we had in Adam was earthly 1 cor 15:

46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So if Adam would have continued perfect in the flesh and blood he was created in, He could not inherit the kingdom of God, prepared for the sheep from the foundation, remember, at his best, Adam was still flesh and blood..

hebrews 2 :

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood [In Adam], he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

And scripture says this 1 cor 15:

50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So Man at His best unfallen state in flesh and blood, cannot inherit the kingdom of God..

As Jesus said, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, even Adam, in His unfallen state needed to be born again if He was to inherit the Kingdom of Glory..
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

Quote:
Beloved57: So Man at His best unfallen state in flesh and blood, cannot inherit the kingdom of God..

As Jesus said, except a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, even Adam, in His unfallen state needed to be born again if He was to inherit the Kingdom of Glory..
But... wasn't Adam alive until he died? Didn't he die when he disobeyed God and ate of the wrong tree? Were not Adam and all of his natural offspring up to and including you and me born dead in the eyes of God? That would not have changed for anyone until they were "born from above" or "born again".
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Old 04-06-2011, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

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Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
But... wasn't Adam alive until he died? Didn't he die when he disobeyed God and ate of the wrong tree? Were not Adam and all of his natural offspring up to and including you and me born dead in the eyes of God? That would not have changed for anyone until they were "born from above" or "born again".
May I interject here that it is not clear to me that Adam and Eve were in material bodies until after the fall when God made them garments of skin. In a discussion with an Orthodox Jew, I learned that Genesis reads "skin" in the singular, not "skins" in the plural.

I can only theorize why it's mistranslated that way, but I suppose it's because people imagined that God killed animals and made clothes out of the skins; but that's not stated. It's "skin" in the singular.

Thus, some Jews say Adam and Eve had spiritual bodies at first -- bodies of Light. This is where my question came from earlier: Did they have bodies for which they were to acquire garments of Light?

Your point about "born from above" is spot-on. This must be accomplished by the "Son of Man" -- who came down and can come down from Heaven. "Son of Man" means "Son of Adam" of course.

Adam was not made dead but became dead. Paul writes of it that he was made a "living soul." There are two words in the Hebrew which denote life -- "chay nephesh." Adam was meant to become a "quickening spirit" by reproducing in the image and likeness of God. He did not. Thus, something was lost to his offspring. The "image of God" given to Adam was restored by Jesus who can reproduce spiritually.

People were angry when Jesus called himself "Son of Man," but he was basically telling certain envious people that they lacked the right image and likeness -- they did not have the image and likeness of God given to Adam and intended to be passed on. So if the "Son of Man" comes down from Heaven, wouldn't "The Man" also have been in Heaven? Surely, but he fell and became a "beast" himself -- with the nature of the serpent instead of the "man."

All this can get lost in English since Hebrew has different words which are translated as "man" and "adam" is sometimes translated as "man" and sometimes as "adam."

What is clear is that the "beast" below, without the Son of Man coming down, cannot be saved -- cannot inherit the kingdom, cannot go to Heaven. The bridegroom can take the bride with him; but the bride by herself cannot enter. The two must become one. A new creature must be "born."
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

ama:

Quote:
But... wasn't Adam alive until he died?
Yes, Physical life in the flesh, earthy. But that kinda life cannot get you in the Eternal Kingdom..
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:23 AM
Moses
 
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

The Word of God i.e the Law is a tree of life to these who bwhold it.

So God in grace gave us, sent us his Word and by this he who beholds the Word eats of the tree of life.
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Old 04-28-2011, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

Titus 1:


1Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;




Eternal Life was promised before the world began. Many mistake and believe that Adam and man in Him, had eternal life and that the continuance of it depended upon a condition, that condition being, if Adam [ Man] did not disobey God and eat of the Tree He was told not to eat from.

So from that reasoning, life eternal was not promised on a premise made by God before the world began, but after time began, and conditioned on the obedience of man who was made of the dust of the ground. Can anyone see the discrepancy with this faulty thinking, and what Paul writes in Titus 1 ?

2 Tim 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of [eternal ] life which is in Christ Jesus,

1 jn 2:25

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

5:

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son

Now who could it have been that God promised Eternal life to before the world began ? Was it Adam ? Was it the Last Adam ?
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  #7  
Old 04-28-2011, 10:28 AM
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

God has had a plan since before the world was created and has not deviated. God (obviously) has eternal life and he has always had a plan to bring others into his family, giving them eternal life. I don't give a lot of meaning to the word "promised" since it implies that 1) there were people to whom he gave the promise and 2) that God found it necessary to promise something. He never changes, so what would be the point?

Eternal life has always been there, death entered the world and came to all people. God, through Christ, can and will roll back death and give people eternal life which was theirs from the beginning. He has already done it -- once.
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Old 04-28-2011, 11:20 AM
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

jay:

Quote:
Eternal life has always been there
Not in Adam is the point.
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Old 04-28-2011, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

I disagree. I don't think that God created a sinful man. I believe that Adam was created pure but sin entered by his actions against God. It's hypothetical of course, but if Adam and Eve hadn't disobeyed God they would not have allowed sin to enter and thereby death. Since "all have sinned" nobody has eternal life if they aren't part of Christ. But we have eternal life in Christ through Christ our Lord.
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Old 04-28-2011, 04:21 PM
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Default Re: What about Adam ?

jay:

Quote:
I disagree.
You do, and with scripture, not good.
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