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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > The place of Mary in Christianity

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  #1  
Old 12-01-2010, 02:37 PM
Loretohouse's Avatar
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Default The place of Mary in Christianity

MODERATIONAL EDIT: A new thread has been created based on an old one. The title and primary question of the old one was not conducive to good dialogue, but much of the discussion has been. Therefore I am reproducing it with an overall new op and new question: "What is the place of Mary in Christianity?" since this has been the question addressed largely throughout the old thread.

The old op is as follows, I am retaining it just for purposes of reference:


Quote:
Loretohouse: If I am asked to do the invocation at a local men's group I don't dare pray the "Hail Mary" for fear that the room would empty. Catholics are accused of worshiping Mary (We don't and there is no Catholic teaching asking us to worship her). The Mother of Jesus is certainly a lightning rod for division. Could it be that Protestants avoid Mary at all cost for fear of being too Catholic?

True Marian devotion always leads one to a closer love for Jesus, that's just the way God has made her. Try to get over your fear of her. Maybe it is not that we pay too much attention to Our Blessed Mother...maybe you pay too little.

Last edited by Linsinbigler : 12-20-2010 at 10:03 AM. Reason: New thread
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2010, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: Mary is scary (to Protestants)

At one time, I kinda felt like protestants in regards to Mary... however, I've recently learned the power of praying the Rosary... now, I'm 100% sold on it.
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:43 PM
Josiah
 
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Default Re: Mary is scary (to Protestants)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loretohouse View Post
If I am asked to do the invocation at a local men's group I don't dare pray the "Hail Mary" for fear that the room would empty. Catholics are accused of worshiping Mary (We don't and there is no Catholic teaching asking us to worship her). The Mother of Jesus is certainly a lightning rod for division. Could it be that Protestants avoid Mary at all cost for fear of being too Catholic?

1. Where is that "fear" here at this website? You are posting this HERE to US. Do you have statistics that prove that all Protestants find Mary to be scary? Did you even poll the Protestants just at this website to see if we all view Her as scary? What is the substantiation for your claim?


2. The Marian Dogmas are typically such in the RCC, at at times also in the EO. THERE ARE NO Marian dogmas in Protestantism (beyond the TITLE of Mary the Mother of God in Lutheranism and Anglicanism). Thus, Protestants have nothing to say on this - dogmatically anyway. The "ball" (if you will) is entirely in YOUR court. If the TEACHINGS are TRUE (the sole issue of this website), then it's YOUR role to substantiate such in ways you yourself affirm when others do such. Go ahead, many have been waiting for centuries.


3. You seem to have an odd method of substantiating your teachings as correct - you accuse others of things. Friend, that does NOTHING to substantiate your positions. NOTHING. If you desire to confirm the TEACHINGS as TRUE, go to threads on that or begin a thread on any Marian Dogma you choose - then prove it true to the level claimed.


4. You know NOTHING - N.O.T.H.I.N.G. - of my love for Mary or my relation to Our Lady. Your comments are BASELESS and more than a little insulting. While I don't embrace some of the contemporary Marian Dogmas of the RCC as such, that has NOTHING to do with my love, esteem or devotion for Her.




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Old 12-01-2010, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Mary is scary (to Protestants)

It is very hard to find a Saint or great Pope who did not have a deep Marian devotion. John Paul is my hero and the best example of true devotion to Mary. If only more Protestants would read his writings.
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  #5  
Old 12-03-2010, 03:15 PM
Josiah
 
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Default Re: Mary is scary (to Protestants)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loretohouse View Post
It is very hard to find a Saint or great Pope who did not have a deep Marian devotion. John Paul is my hero and the best example of true devotion to Mary. If only more Protestants would read his writings.
How does that indicate that Protestants regard Mary as "scary?"

What, exactly, scares we Protestants about Mary?





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Old 12-03-2010, 03:35 PM
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Default Re: Mary is scary (to Protestants)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
How does that indicate that Protestants regard Mary as "scary?"

What, exactly, scares we Protestants about Mary?





.
I was sending a response to Mark and still in the learning stage of how to post with quotes as my forum computer skills are lacking. One post up is his comment I believe.


Unfair of me to say "Protestants" without clarifying as "Some Protestants". I have never met a Protestant with Marian devotion or any interest in Mary.

Scary rhymed with Mary...get it?

A bit of tongue in cheek. No offense intended.
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:47 PM
Josiah
 
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Default Re: Mary is scary (to Protestants)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loretohouse View Post

Unfair of me to say "Protestants" without clarifying as "Some Protestants".





Quote:
I never met a Protestant with Marian devotion or any interest in Mary.

I know MANY - in fact, a large percentage of them.

In my case, I GLADLY say much about Her that my Catholic brothers and sisters hesitate to say: I will GLADLY say that I revere Her, adore Her, worship Her - although not as DIVINE, yet as the most blessed of all women (people?), the Mother of God, the Queen of Heaven.

You may not know that Lutherans and Anglicans make up nearly half of all Protestants, and Mary is held in highest esteem among us. Much may not be common among new American "Evangelicals" but they are a tiny percentage of Protestants.




Quote:
Scary rhymed with Mary...get it? A bit of tongue in cheek. No offense intended.
I see. Then what is your point here?




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  #8  
Old 12-03-2010, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: Mary is scary (to Protestants)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loretohouse View Post
If I am asked to do the invocation at a local men's group I don't dare pray the "Hail Mary" for fear that the room would empty. Catholics are accused of worshiping Mary (We don't and there is no Catholic teaching asking us to worship her). The Mother of Jesus is certainly a lightning rod for division. Could it be that Protestants avoid Mary at all cost for fear of being too Catholic?

True Marian devotion always leads one to a closer love for Jesus, that's just the way God has made her. Try to get over your fear of her. Maybe it is not that we pay too much attention to Our Blessed Mother...maybe you pay too little.
The only thing that protestants may be guilty of in regard to Mother Mary is that they do not understand why she would be revered. Of course the same thing could be said of the saints.

I think it boils down to the viewpoint of whether those individuals live as our Lord Jesus lives, or if they are dead. To many... being deceased is enough to warrant the title dead. See where I am going with this? Speaking to the dead... tie that in with the O.T. story about Saul (wasn't it Saul?) who went to the soothsayer and called up the spirit of a dead person. It's no wonder then that the emotions of those involved in a discussion about Mother Mary begin to get ruffled, and yes... scared for coming near to the thought of violating God's laws.

Education is in order to teach how Mary and the saints are alive. And that that is our goal as well. Can't start with Mary though. Gotta start at a more basic level... that of people living after dying.

Best Wishes,
Perma
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If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Romans 12:18

Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another. Mark 9:50
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  #9  
Old 12-03-2010, 06:19 PM
Josiah
 
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Default Re: Mary is scary (to Protestants)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PermaPetra View Post
[size="3"]

The only thing that protestants may be guilty of in regard to Mother Mary is that they do not understand why she would be revered.
I respectfully disagree.....


I find that She is OFTEN revered, esteemed, loved, adored by Protestants....

I think what is often NOT the case is that RCC Dogmas about Her are accepted AS SUCH. Protestants are often puzzled by de fide Dogmas of The Perpetual Virginity of Mary, the Immaculate Conception of Mary, the Assumption of Mary, the Co-Redemptrix, etc. It's these teachings - especially as dogma - that often have them scratching their heads and wondering if such is TRUE. Catholics tend to interpret this as a lack of esteem for Her when I think often the EXACT OPPOSITE is the case: BECAUSE they love Her, they CARE about whether what is shouted about Her is true. I love my earthly, physical mother. THEREFORE, BECAUSE OF THAT, ERGO, I don't want falsehoods - however well intended or sincere - spread about her (making such therefore gossip and a sin). Loving someone includes speaking the truth about them, in the view of many Protestants. Well, I love, adore, revere and esteem Our Mother and the Mother of Our Lord infinately more - thus truth concerning Her matters infinately more, does it not? I think, perhaps, Catholics may be misinterpreting a concern for Truth about one loved with love for that person - they, in fact, spring from the same thing.




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  #10  
Old 12-03-2010, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Mary is scary (to Protestants)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
I respectfully disagree.....


I find that She is OFTEN revered, esteemed, loved, adored by Protestants....
I know you do. I've already read your "experience". Others, however, do have different experiences.

Your experience does not explain why LoretoHouse may be experiencing what he does. Perhaps another insight might.

Quote:
Protestants are often puzzled by...
And, that further reinforces my point that education is in order.

Respectfully,
Perma

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And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 1 Corinthians 8:2

If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Romans 12:18

Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another. Mark 9:50
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