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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Peter's sermon on Pentecost

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  #1  
Old 09-22-2010, 07:24 AM
RichardBurger's Avatar
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Default Peter's sermon on Pentecost

Peter's sermon on Pentecost:

I believe that Peter's sermon has been taken out of context and used as a blanket sermon about repenting and being water baptized. This article is my attempt to prove that it has to be read “IN CONTEXT.“

(was it to the Jews, the Gentiles, or both?) (IMHO = In my honest opinion)

Acts 2:31-38 (NKJV)
31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
'Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'

In the above Peter is testifying to the Jews that Jesus is the promised Christ.

36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

Peter tells the Jews they have crucified the Lord of Glory. The Jews wanted to know what they could do to atone """for crucifying Jesus."""

38 ""THEN"" Peter said to “”THEM,”” "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Note: Verse 38 is a DIRECT answer to the question in verse 37. The Jews were to repent of rejecting Jesus and having Him crucified. ---NOTE: It was not to repent of sins of the sinful flesh. Nowhere in the context of these scriptures has sins of the sinful flesh been mentioned.

The Jews were to fulfill a Jewish ritual of water cleansing (water baptism), a ritual under the Law of Moses, and at the same time they were to 'acknowledge' Jesus as the Christ by performing a water cleansing ritual (baptism) in His name.

39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."

Peter's sermon included verse 39 which was taken from Joel 2:28-29 and was about the ""promise of the Holy Spirit"" that was to be “”given to the Jews.”” Verse 39 was to assure the Jews that their sin of rejecting Jesus would be forgiven and that they would also be given the Holy Spirit (see verse 38). Joel 2:28-3:1

Many theologians teach that Peter was including the Gentiles in verse 39. But how can that be true since it was necessary for God to give Peter a dream to teach him that the Gentiles were included. Acts 10:9-16

Although it was the Gentiles that actually killed Jesus they did it because the Jews insisted. The Gentiles did not need to repent for what the Jews did. Jesus was not sent to the Gentiles therefore the Gentiles had not rejected Him. (Matt 10:5-7) (Matt 15:23-24) (Rom 15:8)
Matthew 27:24-25 (NKJV)
24 When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that a tumult was rising, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, "I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see to it."
Note this verse:
25 And all the people answered and said,"His blood be on us and on our children."

Peter's sermon has been used as a blanket sermon about repenting and being water baptized in the grace church. It has become a “FORMULA” to be repeated in order to be saved. I also know that some will reject this writing. But IMHO I don't think Peter's sermon is appropriate or valid for this age of grace and those that use it are preaching a sermon that was preached to the Jews, those that had Christ crucified, as if it also applies to the Gentiles. IMHO, that is a blatant falsehood because it is not the truth.

Then how is one saved in this age of God’s grace? Rom 10:5-13

5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them."
6 “””But””” the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
7 or, "'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." NKJV

There is nothing in Rom 10:5-13 about an act of water baptism or repentance.

Richard
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Old 09-24-2010, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: Peter's sermon on Pentecost

As lovingly as I can say this. You seriously need to open your heart to the Holy Spirit and pray earnestly and with open ears on this subject.
James walked and talked and shared meals with Jesus, I don't think he is mistaken.
It is possible that you are.
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Old 09-24-2010, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: Peter's sermon on Pentecost

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelowlyfisherman View Post
As lovingly as I can say this. You seriously need to open your heart to the Holy Spirit and pray earnestly and with open ears on this subject.
James walked and talked and shared meals with Jesus, I don't think he is mistaken.
It is possible that you are.
I don't appreciate your tone. You are putting words in my mouth so that you can ignore what I said. Perhaps it is you that needs to pray.

I am just as much a child of God as you are and my opinion is just as valid as yours so don't get on your soapbox with me.

I agree, I agree, I agree that james was an Apostle that was taught by Jesus. I agree that James was the leader of the Jewish church of believers.

HOWEVER, James was not the Apostle to the Gentiles. Paul was. If a person will open their eyes to the truth they will read the scriptures below and realize that IN TRUTH the grace church was not built on the teachings of the 12 Apostles.

Galatians 2:6-10
6 But from those who seemed to be something — whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man — for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me.
7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter
8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),

9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.

10 They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do.
NKJV

If you REALLY believe the scriptures you will see that THE JEWISH APOSTLES WENT TO THE JEWS AND PAUL WENT TO THE GENTILES. -- So why do people say the church of grace was started by the Jews? Did they break their agreement with Paul and take over the grace church Paul started?

Last edited by RichardBurger : 09-24-2010 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 09-24-2010, 01:38 PM
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Default Re: Peter's sermon on Pentecost

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardBurger View Post
Peter's sermon on Pentecost:

I believe that Peter's sermon has been taken out of context and used as a blanket sermon about repenting and being water baptized. This article is my attempt to prove that it has to be read “IN CONTEXT.“

(was it to the Jews, the Gentiles, or both?) (IMHO = In my honest opinion)

Acts 2:31-38 (NKJV)
31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption.
32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses.
33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
34 "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
'The Lord said to my Lord,
'Sit at My right hand,
35 Till I make Your enemies Your footstool."'

In the above Peter is testifying to the Jews that Jesus is the promised Christ.
Yes, he is speaking to a group of Jewish unbelievers who were physically present, but is he not also testifying to anyone who reads the written words; or are non-children of Jacob [natural] not supposed to read the written words?

Quote:
Richard: 36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Men and brethren, what shall we do?"

Peter tells the Jews they have crucified the Lord of Glory. The Jews wanted to know what they could do to atone """for crucifying Jesus."""

38 ""THEN"" Peter said to “”THEM,”” "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Note: Verse 38 is a DIRECT answer to the question in verse 37. The Jews were to repent of rejecting Jesus and having Him crucified. ---NOTE: It was not to repent of sins of the sinful flesh. Nowhere in the context of these scriptures has sins of the sinful flesh been mentioned.
Certainly it is, but is it only an answer to them as you apparently believe?

Who is all the house of Israel? We know that many of the natural descendents of Jacob were cut-off from that people. We know that gentiles were added on to that people, [even in the OT].

The separation is not of the natural descendents and Jacob from everyone else, but of those who love God more than anything else from than those who are unwilling to put Him first.

Quote:
Richard: The Jews were to fulfill a Jewish ritual of water cleansing (water baptism), a ritual under the Law of Moses, and at the same time they were to 'acknowledge' Jesus as the Christ by performing a water cleansing ritual (baptism) in His name.
And that was a type of the spiritual cleansing, which is the really important cleansing, of the Holy Ghost, which is for "whosoever will"! Washing our bodies like washing our hands may be healthy for the body, but...

"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man." Matt 15:18-20

Quote:
Richard: 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call."

Peter's sermon included verse 39 which was taken from Joel 2:28-29 and was about the ""promise of the Holy Spirit"" that was to be “”given to the Jews.”” Verse 39 was to assure the Jews that their sin of rejecting Jesus would be forgiven and that they would also be given the Holy Spirit (see verse 38). Joel 2:28-3:1
Apparently, you really believe that much of the OT, if not all of it, including the book of Joel, was written only to the natural children of Jacob rather to God's people, who ever their natural parents were! Until you stop separating flesh from flesh, as if that ultimately made a difference to a God who never changes, you will have difficulty, in my opinion, in seeing what God wants us to see.

Does it really matter ultimately what kind of a beast a person is, if he is a beast rather than a man of God? Does it really matter to God whether or not I have an exterior of dark flesh with dark eyes rather than of light flesh with blue eyes?

"All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another." I Cor 15:39-40

Quote:
Richard: Many theologians teach that Peter was including the Gentiles in verse 39. But how can that be true since it was necessary for God to give Peter a dream to teach him that the Gentiles were included. Acts 10:9-16
God's message has always been also available to the heathen if they were interested enough to listen: Consider Rahab, Naaman and Ruth!

Peter was still filled with prejudices and errors, as we all are, until we allow God to remove them! The receipt of the gift of the Holy Ghost is not a ticket to God's Kingdom, but it is a very special tool, which can help us make it through, but we still do have the ability to quench even that Spirit!

Quote:
Richard: Although it was the Gentiles that actually killed Jesus they did it because the Jews insisted. The Gentiles did not need to repent for what the Jews did. Jesus was not sent to the Gentiles therefore the Gentiles had not rejected Him. (Matt 10:5-7) (Matt 15:23-24) (Rom 15:8)
The gentiles had already rejected God, so, yes, they had also already rejected Jesus who came with His Father's words!

"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil." John 3:17-18

Who was condemned? Was it not anyone and everyone who "believeth not"?

Jesus came to the Jews because they were supposed to be God's people, but were falling short. He didn't come to the natural gentiles because they were not supposed to be God's people, but... Jesus was unable to ignore and neglect a believer, even one that was not a natural child of Jacob!

"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and cast it to dogs.

And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour." Matt 15:24-28

Quote:
Richard: Matthew 27:24-25 (NKJV)
24 When Pilate saw that he could not prevail at all, but rather that a tumult was rising, he took water and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, "I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see to it."
Note this verse:
25 And all the people answered and said,"His blood be on us and on our children."

Peter's sermon has been used as a blanket sermon about repenting and being water baptized in the grace church. It has become a “FORMULA” to be repeated in order to be saved. I also know that some will reject this writing. But IMHO I don't think Peter's sermon is appropriate or valid for this age of grace and those that use it are preaching a sermon that was preached to the Jews, those that had Christ crucified, as if it also applies to the Gentiles. IMHO, that is a blatant falsehood because it is not the truth.
I, for one, do not believe in 'blanket sermons' or prescribed "formulas". Not everyone who believes [natural child of Israel or not] is drawn to God by precisely the same spoken words or by precisely the same enacted ritual.

As for Peter's message, it was preached to the unbelievers! In the flesh the unbelievers were Jewish, but they were spiritual heathens.

Quote:
Richard: Then how is one saved in this age of God’s grace? Rom 10:5-13

5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them."
6 “””But””” the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down from above)
7 or, "'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him.
13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." NKJV

There is nothing in Rom 10:5-13 about an act of water baptism or repentance.
I will not speak here of water baptism for that is another subject on which we are probably closer to agreement.

As for "repentance". just what is it? Is it not the "turning around" in the views and beliefs and ways that a person habitually follows?

Below I have quoted again the 9th verse of Romans 10, which you posted above:

"that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

How does a person come to the point where "he believes in his heart" from a earlier point where "he did not so believe"? The journey from the one point to the other point is a journey to a complete reversal of one's former position. If that is not "turning around" I am at a loss as what else it would be.

Is not Paul in the following verse speaking of the possibilty that the "believing" spouse, may by "good" example cause the "unbeliever" to turn around [repent] and become a "believer" as well?

"For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?" I Cor 7:16
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Old 09-24-2010, 03:12 PM
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Default Re: Peter's sermon on Pentecost

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
Yes, he is speaking to a group of Jewish unbelievers who were physically present, but is he not also testifying to anyone who reads the written words; or are non-children of Jacob [natural] not supposed to read the written words?



No wonder people can't understand the scriptures. The O.T. is for us but not to us. It is so that we can see the workings of God that led up to Christ. If you can't read the promises how can you see that Jesus is the Christ?

If you are going to say every word of God written to the Jews is written to us then how are you going to understand God.
Quote:


Certainly it is, but is it only an answer to them as you apparently believe?
You can believe it was written to you if you wish but it was not written TO ME. I didn't have Jesus crucified.
Quote:


Apparently, you really believe that much of the OT, if not all of it, including the book of Joel, was written only to the natural children of Jacob rather to God's people, who ever their natural parents were! Until you stop separating flesh from flesh, as if that ultimately made a difference to a God who never changes, you will have difficulty, in my opinion, in seeing what God wants us to see.
Until you stop thinking that every word in the Bible is written TO you instead of FOR you you will never be able to see truth. You will never be able to see what God says TO you if you are going to put what He says to others as what He says to you.
Quote:


As for "repentance". just what is it? Is it not the "turning around" in the views and beliefs and ways that a person habitually follows?
No it isn't.
Quote:

Below I have quoted again the 9th verse of Romans 10, which you posted above:

"that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

How does a person come to the point where "he believes in his heart" from a earlier point where "he did not so believe"? The journey from the one point to the other point is a journey to a complete reversal of one's former position. If that is not "turning around" I am at a loss as what else it would be.
Because NO MAN CAN STOP SINNING

Quote:

IMHO (In my honest opinion), to the religious mind, repenting of sins is something that a person does, at some time or other, to ask for forgiveness for a sin they think they have committed. I say it this way because, for them, they must pick a time and go to God in a prayer of words and ask for forgiveness for that sin. They do it only when they think they have done something wrong. For the rest of their time they rationalize that they do not sin and therefore do not have to repent.

True repentance "IS" a "CONSTANT ATTITUDE" of the heart and is not an action that is done at some place or time. --- It is constantly acknowledging (admitting to God) that you are a sinful person in the flesh and that you need His forgiveness, the need for God, who paid for your sins, to save you from your sinful nature in the flesh. -- It is a constant humble walk with God (the Holy Spirit that lives in your heart) in honesty, without deceit. -- To be exact it is and attitude of the heart and it is not a ritual that you do at some place or time.

1. A repenting; penitent state; feeling of sorrow, etc. especially for wrongdoing; compunction, contrition; remorse. A child of God feels remorseful that he/she sins but since they live in a body of sinful flesh there is no way they can stop from sinning in the flesh. Paul couldn’t in Romans 7 and neither can we.

Ps 32:1-2
1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no deceit.
(NKJ)

Deceit = dishonesty / a person saying they have no sin is being dishonest (deceitful) with God. Therefore having a constant honest attitude of acknowledging your sinful nature to God and placing your faith, trust, confidence, and hope in God's work on the cross to save you from your sinful nature is true repentance. A person that does not acknowledge his/her sins (sinful nature) is being dishonest with God and will feel no need to have an constant attitude of repentance. IMHO they are like the Pharisee below.

Luke 18:11-14
11 "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men-- extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.
12 'I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'
13 "And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!'
14 "I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
(NKJ)

The tax collector was repenting, he was sorrowful, contrite, remorseful, because of his sinfulness. But that does not mean he stopped being a sinful person or a tax collector.

Richard

Last edited by RichardBurger : 09-24-2010 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 09-24-2010, 03:49 PM
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Default Re: Peter's sermon on Pentecost

So, you do want to remain a sinner?
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Old 09-24-2010, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: Peter's sermon on Pentecost

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Originally Posted by RichardBurger View Post
You can believe it was written to you if you wish but it was not written TO ME. I didn't have Jesus crucified.
All men by their attitude had Jesus crucified!

Quote:
Richard: NO MAN CAN STOP SINNING
Then Jesus is a liar?

"nd Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you." Matt 17:20

And of us then, since as you say we all are continuing to sin do not know God at all!

"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." I John 3:6
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:41 AM
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Default Re: Peter's sermon on Pentecost

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Originally Posted by thelowlyfisherman View Post
So, you do want to remain a sinner?
If you say you have no sin then you are a liar. This is scripture, don't you believe it. I get so tired of SELF-RIGHTEOUS people.

We are sinless "IN CHRIST" not in our flesh. We are sinless because God does not account ours sins against us when we are "IN CHRIST" THe flesh can never be sinless.

Last edited by RichardBurger : 09-25-2010 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:50 AM
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Default Re: Peter's sermon on Pentecost

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Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
All men by their attitude had Jesus crucified!



Then Jesus is a liar?

"nd Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you." Matt 17:20

And of us then, since as you say we all are continuing to sin do not know God at all!

"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." I John 3:6
I haven't read where Paul moved any physical mountains but because of his faith he did bring many to Christ.

So if a man robs a store we are all guilty of his crime. Your logic leaves much to be desired. I really don't think you would make a good judge.

Using your logic it is possible for a man to become sinless and if he doesn't then he has never known Christ. You lay a burden on others that you can't carry yourself.

Those that abideth in Him no longer sins "IN THE EYES OF GOD" because his sins are not accounted to him. Not because he is sinless in the flesh.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:56 AM
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Default Re: Peter's sermon on Pentecost

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelowlyfisherman View Post
So, you do want to remain a sinner?
It is not what I want. Those are your words. Haven't you read Romans 7. All children of God "DO NOT WANT TO SIN" but they know they do in the flesh. It is not being honest to claim you are sinless in the flesh.

I can not be decietful in front of God. I know that in my flesh there is no good thing (look it up it is in scripture). I went to Jesus because I know that in my flesh I can never please God. (That is in scripture too)
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