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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Universal Salvation or Eternal Hell.

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  #1  
Old 08-02-2010, 01:48 PM
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Default Universal Salvation or Eternal Hell.

I will start with my favorite verse which declares the salvation for all men. He have discussed the fact that God casued the fall, Adam had no choice. Man does not have a freewill and the word hell is a lie. So lets go at it,

Great can of worms to open up in an open debate.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession:

If God does not call you, you cannot come, you do not have the freewill, the choice to come.
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Old 08-02-2010, 01:51 PM
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Default Re: Universal Salvation or Eternal Hell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoni View Post
I will start with my favorite verse which declares the salvation for all men. He have discussed the fact that God casued the fall, Adam had no choice. Man does not have a freewill and the word hell is a lie. So lets go at it,

Great can of worms to open up in an open debate.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession:

If God does not call you, you cannot come, you do not have the freewill, the choice to come
.
That which I have bolded seems to negate your argument???
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And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 1 Corinthians 8:2

If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Romans 12:18

Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another. Mark 9:50
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Old 08-02-2010, 01:56 PM
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Default Re: Universal Salvation or Eternal Hell.

Your title causes some what of a quandary for me! I do not believe in Universal Salvation but neither do I believe in Eternal hell [as in eternal torment]!
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Old 08-02-2010, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: Universal Salvation or Eternal Hell.

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Originally Posted by Benoni View Post
Universal Salvation or Eternal Hell
The Bible teaches the reality of Hell.
Jesus taught the reality of Hell.
Chritrians believe the reality of Hell.


The doctrine of hell is apparently so frightening that many Christians end up denying the reality of an eternal hell. The Unitarian-Universalists, the Seventh-Day Adventists, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Christadelphians, the Christian Scientists, the Religious Scientists, the New Agers, and the Mormons—all have rejected or modified the doctrine of hell so radically that it is no longer a serious threat. In recent decades, this decay has even invaded mainstream Evangelicalism, and a number of major Evangelical figures have advocated the view that there is no eternal hell—the wicked will simply be annihilated.

But the eternal nature of hell is stressed in the New Testament. For example, in Mark 9:47–48 Jesus warns us, "[i]t is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, where the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." And in Revelation 14:11, we read: "And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."

Hell is not just a theoretical possibility. Jesus warns us that real people go there. He says, "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few" (Matt. 7:13–14).

In point of fact, the ancient councils rejected the theory that the world would be regenerated after destruction, and every creature would be saved; a theory which abolished hell. The words of Christ are unequivocal. In Matthew’s Gospel he speaks clearly of those who will go to eternal punishment (cf. Matt. 25:46).

Thus the issue that some will go to hell is decided, and the early Church Fathers were also absolutely firm on the reality of an eternal hell.
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Old 08-02-2010, 02:02 PM
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Default Re: Universal Salvation or Eternal Hell.

Didn't the Catholic church not too long ago make a revision on it's stance/doctrine of hell?
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And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 1 Corinthians 8:2

If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Romans 12:18

Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another. Mark 9:50
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Old 08-02-2010, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: Universal Salvation or Eternal Hell.

I think I'll google it. Seems that I heard something about that a few years ago.
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And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 1 Corinthians 8:2

If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Romans 12:18

Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another. Mark 9:50
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Old 08-02-2010, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: Universal Salvation or Eternal Hell.

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Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
Your title causes some what of a quandary for me! I do not believe in Universal Salvation but neither do I believe in Eternal hell [as in eternal torment]!
Eternity is not an attribute of Hell. Immortality, though, is an attribute of the human spirit: Your sprit will live forever, thefore wherever you end up is where you will be... ...forever.
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Old 08-02-2010, 02:05 PM
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Default Re: Universal Salvation or Eternal Hell.

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Originally Posted by PermaPetra View Post
Didn't the Catholic church not too long ago make a revision on it's stance/doctrine of hell?
Nope. Doctrines never change. Perhaps the language used to describe them change in order to reach new generations who express things differently in different languages, but never the doctrine itself. Here is the official teaching (1033 thru 1037): Catechism of the Catholic Church - Hell

Last edited by CatholicCrusader : 08-02-2010 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 08-02-2010, 02:07 PM
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Default Re: Universal Salvation or Eternal Hell.

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Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
Eternity is not an attribute of Hell. Immortality, though, is an attribute of the human spirit: Your sprit will live forever, thefore wherever you end up is where you will be... ...forever.
Perhaps! Perhaps, where we will end up is being Nothing!
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Old 08-02-2010, 02:32 PM
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Default Re: Universal Salvation or Eternal Hell.

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Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
Nope. Doctrines never change. Perhaps the language used to describe them change in order to reach new generations who express things differently in different languages, but never the doctrine itself. Here is the official teaching (1033 thru 1037): Catechism of the Catholic Church - Hell
I'll try to remember that... doctrines don't change, phraseology does.

I shall read that link you gave me shortly.

Found what I was recalling:

at the Vatican on July 28, 1999, Pope John Paul II rejected the reality of a physical, literal hell as a place of eternal fire and torment. Rather, the pope said hell is separation, even in this life, from the joyful communion with God. According to an official Vatican transcript of the pope's speech, Pope John Paul II noted that the Scriptural references to hell and the images portrayed by Scripture are only symbolic and figurative of "the complete frustration and emptiness of life without God. " He added, "Rather than a physical place, hell is the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy." He said hell is "a condition resulting from attitudes and actions which people adopt in this life." Concerning the concept of eternal damnation, the pope said, "Damnation consists precisely in definitive separation from God, freely chosen by the human person, and confirmed with death that seals his choice for ever." The pope also added, "The thought of hell and even less the improper use of biblical images must not create anxiety or despair." Rather, he stated, it is a reminder of the freedom found in Christ.

The Religion News Service reported that a Vatican-approved editorial published several weeks ago in the Jesuit journal Civilta Cattolica agrees with the pope's latest pronouncement. The editorial explicitly pronounced, "Hell exists, not as a place but as a state, a way of being of the person who suffers the pain of the deprivation of God" (Los Angeles Times, 7-31-99). The pope said eternal damnation is "not God's work but is actually our own doing." Only a week earlier the pope stated that heaven is neither "an abstraction nor a place in the clouds, but a living, personal relationship of union with the Holy Trinity. "
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And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. 1 Corinthians 8:2

If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. Romans 12:18

Salt is good, but if the salt loses its flavor, how will you season it? Have salt in yourselves, and have peace with one another. Mark 9:50
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