Originally Posted by SolaVerbumDei

And you use one witness: your own interpretation. You reject mine and simply ignore my biblical evidence. Suit yourself.

You have yet to show me your private interpretation of this phrase -> "God the Son".

If you claim to have any credibility whatsoever. Put up or please be quiet. I would love to converse with you , only on the bases that you start talking logically and not illogically. And , when you make statements that you can not back up with scripture. I can only assume, that you can not produce anything from the scriptures which states that the phrase - "God the son" is from the holy scriptures !

Now put up , Sola !

IN Christ - MM

[SolaVerbumDei]

This is one reason your theory is not of the One true God. It is not easy to be entreated !

No. I am not here doing an exposition of my "theory." No, I am responding to your statements of "logic." You brought up the issue of reason and logic and offered a convoluted reply to Redeemed supposedly following logic. I just dissected it using logic. Were you talking of logic not knowing the rules of reason and logic?

What all can see is that you violate logic in your argumentation! But you introduced the concepts of logic and you called our position illogical. It results that it is your position based on fallacies!

Simple: God is God, and God created Man in his own image. God does not change ,thus man can not change.

False. I explained why. You go again into fallacies of logic. Re-read my reply to this and address it. If you cannot apply to yourself what you always say: simply say that you don't know.

Man can not begat himself , and God can not begat himself either !

If Jesus is fully God, and the Father is fully God, then by shear logic the Father begat himself in the person of the son. < This is illogical thinking ! Because I am a father also. And I did not and can not begat myself in the person of my son . It is impossible !! My son knows what I told him when he grew up. The same holds true with the Son of God, and I have given scripture that tells us that the Father taught him, the son. If Jesus is fully God, then there is no reason to teach himself < This is illogical !! And if you want to give me more of your theories. Please, would you at the very least keep them within the parameters of logic, please !

Ha! You appealing to logic! Go back and reply as you failed to do so. It is getting pathetic!

[SolaVerbumDei]

Originally Posted by Mysteryman

You have yet to show me your private interpretation of this phrase -> "God the Son".

If you claim to have any credibility whatsoever. Put up or please be quiet. I would love to converse with you , only on the bases that you start talking logically and not illogically. And , when you make statements that you can not back up with scripture. I can only assume, that you can not produce anything from the scriptures which states that the phrase - "God the son" is from the holy scriptures !

Now put up , Sola !

IN Christ - MM

You indeed have given me a good laugh this morning. There is nothing more to say. You have a great day...

Quote Redeemed: "You are wrong when you say that no man has seen God at any time"

Hi Nancy

I carried this statement you made from your comments to me. I thought I would address it seperately from all the things we have talked about at this point in time.

I would like you to see along with me, what I call a red flag.

The Word specifically tells us that "No Man" has seen God at any time"

Jesus was both the son of man - thus making him a man, and the Son of God - thus making him the Son.

Jesus was also a son of man ------ And Christ whom became a man, also was the Son of God.

I wonder if you have noticed the red flag as of yet ?

Jesus didn't "see" God in the sense of looking into the eyes of God , or another way of saying it - face to face.

There is enough information from the scriptures, especially from the four gospels. That tell us, that the Father taught His Son.

Seeing is one thing, but fully seeing someone is something totally different. Which means fully understanding him.

The four gospels tell us, that Jesus grew. This does not mean to grow up physically. We know that at 12 years old, he was out doing His Father's buisness. John the baptist said, that he must decrease and Jesus Christ must increase. This means increase in spiritual understanding, from which the Father was his teacher. Not earthly father, but heavenly Father.

No one can deny that Jesus was a man both of the flesh, being a son of man. And being a man, being the Son of God.

The Word tells us, that "NO Man" has seen God at any time. This would include Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ was in the bosom of the Father. He did not know him, nor did he see him. God , who was his Father, taught him. This means that his Father revealed himself to his Son.

Why did Jesus pray ? Especially to the Father ? Let this cup be removed (pass - Matt. 26:42 - remove - Luke 22:42 )from me.

Jesus constantly went to his Father for answers. We remember reading and discussing, that Jesus did not come here to do his will, but the will of the Father who sent him.

Again , does this not boil down to a mistake in identity ?

For indeed - No Man, has seen God at any time ?

Now let me ask you once again. Is the Word correct, or is Nancy correct ?

Nancy says that MM is mistaken to believe that no man has seen God at any time. And this is because you claim this verse to be not true, based upon the doctorine , that Jesus is God.

I know this is difficult Nancy. I know that sometimes truth is a hard pill to swallow. Trust me when I say, I have had to take my medicine and swallow that pill myself. It is called humility.

I personnaly love God and His Word , in that, I want to love God with all my heart, soul, "mind and stength. And I would want nothing less for you.

I love you Nancy, and I love all the brethren here. And want nothing but the best for them. Second best is not good enough in my book.

I love Jesus Christ for what he did in obeying his Father. Even dying on the cross for me. I love him greater, for obeying his Father. I love God for giving of His Son , and how much the cost must have been for God to do that. But God looks beyond human emotions. He looks way down the road when he makes these kinds of decisions.

"For God so loved the "world" that he gave his only begotten Son"

Just put the proper love in its proper place.

Bless you - IN Christ - MM

[Linsinbigler]

Originally Posted by Mysteryman

You have yet to show me your private interpretation of this phrase -> "God the Son".

If you claim to have any credibility whatsoever. Put up or please be quiet. I would love to converse with you , only on the bases that you start talking logically and not illogically. And , when you make statements that you can not back up with scripture. I can only assume, that you can not produce anything from the scriptures which states that the phrase - "God the son" is from the holy scriptures !

Now put up , Sola !

IN Christ - MM

I am certain we have had this conversation somewhere in the past on this forum. Am not sure where the thread is, but we have already "gotten through this" so to speak, yet here we are again.

Mysteryman~

The things you teach I have never heard before. Jesus did not need to increase in knowledge: John was saying that his own ministry must decrease and Jesus' ministry must increase. Jesus must always increase. Always more of Jesus, less of us.

Jesus Christ was in the bosom of the Father. He did not know him, nor did he see him.

How could Jesus possibly be in the bosum of the Father without knowing or seeing Him?



IN Christ~
Nancy

Hello everyone, I happened to stumble upon this topic and I'm kinda intrested in these kind of things.

Why does Jesus clearly states that there is only own true God (John 17:3)?

John 17:11 (King James Version)

11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:11 (New International Version - UK)

11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name— the name you gave me— so that they may be one as we are one.

Hi Redeemed,

So you think that vers is saying that Jesus is God, because he is one with God? But doesn't that imply according to that way of thinking that we also become God according to (John 17:21-23) which tells that we can become one with Jesus and with God? Or was your reply towards someone else?

Originally Posted by Redeemed

Mysteryman~

The things you teach I have never heard before. Jesus did not need to increase in knowledge: John was saying that his own ministry must decrease and Jesus' ministry must increase. Jesus must always increase. Always more of Jesus, less of us.

How could Jesus possibly be in the bosum of the Father without knowing or seeing Him?



IN Christ~
Nancy

Nancy

Try and understand, that I have already walked in your shoes. You know, been there , done that kinda thing. I'm 62 now, not 40 or 30 or 20. Even though my age has nothing specifically to do with it. Myself unlike you, I was raised from my birth in a denomination. I have heard about God and Jesus ever since I can remember. But I only knew "one" source . That which some told me how to believe. And for the most part, about 99 % of the time, we were to believe while not using a bible as a reference point.

When I became about 25 and married my wonderful wife , of which was from the same denomination. I can not say this in the way that it happened. But we were married only two months. And God came knocking at my door. Was it a human witness ? NO . IT was God who came knocking. So was God at the door ? No ! For no man has seen God at any time. So you ask, was it an angel or maybe Jesus ? You know what ? I don't know, but one thing I do know. The only words I heard was -- LEAVE .

I left, don't ask me why I obeyed this one word. But somehow I knew what the word LEAVE meant. I can't explain it. But I knew it meant for me to leave the church denomination I grew up in.

Over a period of 30 years, slowly but surely, God kept opening the eyes of my understanding. Gosh he is slow isn't he ? LOL

But the wait was worth it. Over the next 30 years many things happened, and I mean many. You see, you are not suppose to be a fool for God, but you are suppose to look foolish, In the eyes of the world.

Talk about strange looks. I am sure you have given me a few, but the inability to see one's face on cyber space , oh well, you get the picture.

Did someone teach me the things I know ? Some yes, but most no. Most of what I know was revealed unto me by God. Strange ? Maybe so, but not to me, because I lived it. Hard to understand ? Maybe for some, but not me, because I have lived it. I could not even live my life without God in some way being there teaching me something. I was learning from God about numbers within the Word. So our post office changed our mailbox number. The new number revealed something too me. If I were to share it, it would only be strange sounding to you. Why do I tell you all of this ? To convince you in some way ? No, not at all. You have no idea who I am, and you have never met me or even lived close to me to watch my life over the last 40 years. So you can just forget anything I just told you .

How do I know what I am saying is true ? Its called "logos" = Logic

You have it , and I have it and everyone has it. And I mean everyone ! Not just christians. But those who are not christians are lacking something. It is called the Spirit of truth, which is Christ in us. And this is the Spirit of his Son in our hearts. Now we have that "logos"

God did not give us the Spirit of fear ! But of "power", "love" and a "sound mind". Wow when I grasped that, you have no idea what I was thinking. I have a sound mind. Even my love is not my love but his love. Power, not mine but his power in me of all things. Just imagine ? And the only time I can use his power, is when he tells me I can. Or else I will fall flat on my face. I will not only look foolish, but I will also be a fool, because I would have been foolish for trying. God wants us to look foolish, but not be foolish.

If Christ is one with God, and I am one with Christ. Does that make Christ and myself God ? Would I be a fool for thinking such a thing ? Yep, and I would look foolish as well.

But what if the world still thinks that this makes Jesus God, by Christ being one with God. AT least I will not be a fool, but I will look foolish when I tell them that I disagree with them.

See the difference ?

Why do you think I have been appealing to your "logos" mind ? And not your five senses knowledge ! Oh yes, I have given you much to think about that is for sure, and you have done likewise. The difference between yourself and myself. I have known the answer to the proposed subject for many years now. I have already gone over those verses with a fine tooth comb. I have for years now been praying and asking God for answers. And I went to no man for my answers to my questions, but God alone . The difference between yourself and myself. I did not have a teacher who could have taught me these things. But you do. Yet, I would never ask you to believe one thing I say. It is still up to you and your "logos' mind.

Everyone is born and God gives them what is called the spirit of man. Since God gave it, it is "logos". But Christians get something special, and this is the Spirit of his son in our hearts, Christ in us - "The LOGOS"

Elisha wanted double what Elijah had, and God gave it to him. Christians likewise have double = two scoups of ice cream, oops , LOL sorry, got carried away there. Two scoups of "logos" any flavor you want . Dang another slip of the tongue there. It does not come in flavors - LOL

I pray we talk more Nancy.

Let every man be persuaded in their own mind.

Love IN Christ - MM