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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Has the Nation of Israel received all the land God promised to them?

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  #1  
Old 09-27-2009, 11:37 AM
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Default Has the Nation of Israel received all the land God promised to them?

This subject is of great interest to me, there are some who hold to the view that Israel still does not posses all the land which God promised them through Abraham, and so they are looking forward to the fulfillment of this promise. There are others who hold to the view that this promise of possessing the land has already been fulfilled and God owes them no more.

Which do you hold to and why?
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Old 09-27-2009, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Has the Nation of Israel received all the land God promised to them?

I believe they have yet to recieve all the land due them, and I base this on the land the Lord told them to take over in the conquest of the land which is not all in thier control. Then of course thier holdings was greatly increased under Saul/David/Solomon, and the Lord supposedly was okay with this as well, but at the very least, the parts the Lord had Isreal conquer and be totally thiers should be thiers again one day to include all of Jersalem and what is now the Palestinian state.
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: Has the Nation of Israel received all the land God promised to them?

The Bible explains that God chose the ancient nation of Israel to be His people (Deut. 7:6).

However, He chose all twelve tribes—not just the tribe of Judah (the ancestors of the Jewish people).

Chapters 9-24 of the book of Exodus record how God freed the Israelites from their bondage—slavery—to the Egyptians. Although God has no favorites or shows favoritism when it comes to people (Acts 10:34), He selected Israel as His model nation. They were to show the world the physical blessings that are reaped when God’s Law is obeyed.

But the Israelites did not follow God. They failed and refused to obey Him. They rebelled and sinned. Instead of following the one true God, they followed the many pagan gods that the surrounding nations worshipped. The nation of Israel eventually split into two nations—the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Because of their sins, God allowed the house of Israel to be taken into captivity by the Assyrians (720-718 B.C.). While in slavery, the house of Israel became “lost” to history.

Then during 604 to 585 B.C., the Babylonians took Judah into captivity, destroying the Temple of Jerusalem.

After seventy years, the Jews were allowed to return to Jerusalem and the surrounding region. Later, the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the Temple began. But the Jews continued to disobey God. They forsook many of His laws and replaced them with manmade rules and codes, which resulted in Judaism (Matt. 15:1-9; Mark 7:1-13).

Their rebellion led to Jesus Christ declaring, “Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof” (Matt. 21:43).

Instead of physical Israel receiving the promise of the kingdom of God, it was to be given to spiritual Israel—God’s Church. This Church now consists of a few “called out” ones (I Pet. 2:9; Rev. 18:4).

In Galatians 3, the apostle Paul explains, “And if you be Christ’s, then are you Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise” (vs. 29). Those in God’s Church are Abraham’s seed—his children. This makes them heirs to the original promise that was given to him. At Christ’s Return from heaven, the Church will marry Christ and be His chosen bride (Rev. 19:7-9).

However, Hosea 2, Ezekiel 36 and Zechariah chapters 12-14 show that God has not completely removed the promise from physical Israel. These chapters explain that if they repent from their rebellion against God, they can once again be His people.

At the establishment of the kingdom, physical Israel (the house of Israel and Judah) will obey God, and be the model nation to the world—as He had originally planned (Zech. 8). Spiritual Israel—the Church—will at that time be immortal—composed of spirit—and will be ruling with Christ over the nations (Rev. 2:26; 3:21; 5:10; 20:4-6).

In this wonderful world to come, the nation of Israel will once again be God’s chosen nation. They will fulfill the job—and receive the blessings—God had set aside for them 3,500 years ago!
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: Has the Nation of Israel received all the land God promised to them?

Thank you both for your posts, good information. I would like to take it a step further and present something I have noticed in regards to this promise God made with Abraham and Israel and the land. Please let me know what you think, and as with any post if I have posted something in error, please correct me.

God made 2 distinct promises to Abraham:

First Promise
In Genesis 12, God establishes the covenant between Himself and Abraham's seed, notice in verse 7, that the covenant is only with Abraham's seed.

Genesis 12:7
"... unto thy seed will I give this land:" (The land of Canaan)

Second Promise
In Genesis 13, God establishes the covenant between Himself and Abraham & Abraham's seed.
Notice God's wording, in the first promise God did not include Abraham, but in the second promise he did.

Genesis 13:14-17
"...Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: 15 For all the land which thou seest , to thee will I give it and to thy seed forever. 16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered. 17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee."

God reiterates His covenant with Abraham & his seed in Genesis 17.

Genesis 17:4-8

"As for me, behold my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. 5 Neither shall thy name anymore be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. 6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee. 7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. 8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession, and I will be their God."

Here we have 2 distinct promises, the first says that Abraham's seed will posses the land of Canaan, the second is that Abraham and his seed will posses the land of Canaan forever.

First Promise

Genesis 15:18
"In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt, unto the great river, the river Euphrates."
This land was to be given to Abraham's seed unconditionally, whether they believed in God or not, whether they obeyed God or not. God makes this clear as they enter to posses the land which God promised Abraham they would.

Deuteronomy 9:5-6

"Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to posses their land (Canaan): but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. 6 Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to posses it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people,

God Fulfills his first promise.

Joshua 21:43-45

"And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it and dwelt therein. 44 And the LORD gave them rest roundabout, according to all that he sware unto their fathers; and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand. 45 Their failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass."

God Confirms His Fulfillment of His First Promise.

Nehemiah 9:7-8

"Thou art the LORD the God, who didst choose Abram, and broughtest him forthout of Ur of the Chaldees, and gavest him the name of Abraham; 8 And foundest his heart faithful before thee, and madest a covenant with him to give the land of the Canaanites, the Hittites, the Amorites, the Perizzites, and the Jebusites and the Giegashites, to give it, I say, to his seed, and hast performed thy words; for thou art righteous;"

Unconditional to receive the land; Conditional to stay in the land.

Deuteronomy 8:19

"And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish.

As we read throughout the Old Testament, Israel was driven out many times for their disobedience.

First Promise

God made a covenant with Abraham & his seed to possess the land forever..... Abraham NEVER possessed the land.

Hebrew 11:13

"These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims in the land."

God did not fail in his promise to Abraham, he and his seed shall inherit the land and possess it forever, as the LORD has said. This can only happen at the resurrection which is the last day. Abraham and his seed WILL inherit "the land" as promised, but it is his spiritual seed along with Abraham that will be heirs, not the physical nation of Israel. They have received their promise in full.
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Old 09-29-2009, 08:58 AM
CatholicCrusader
 
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Default Re: Has the Nation of Israel received all the land God promised to them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIEC View Post
This subject is of great interest to me, there are some who hold to the view that Israel still does not posses all the land which God promised them through Abraham, and so they are looking forward to the fulfillment of this promise. There are others who hold to the view that this promise of possessing the land has already been fulfilled and God owes them no more.

Which do you hold to and why?
Two questions come to my mind:

1) Do we actually know the actual boundries of what was originally promised?

2) Does today's secular state of Israel really represent the Israel of the Old Testament?
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:09 PM
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Default Re: Has the Nation of Israel received all the land God promised to them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
Two questions come to my mind:

1) Do we actually know the actual boundries of what was originally promised?

2) Does today's secular state of Israel really represent the Israel of the Old Testament?
The promise is first made to Abraham (Genesis 15:18-21) and then renewed to his son Isaac, and to Isaac's son Jacob (Genesis 28:13), Abraham's grandson. The promised land was given to their descendants and was described in terms of the territory from the River of Egypt to the Euphrates

The River of Egypt is often thought of as the Nile River or one of it's eastern branches.

The Euphrates River is of course in what is now the country of Iraq.

And in Genesis 15:18-21 the boundary of the promised land is defined in terms of the territory of various ancient peoples.

The verse is said to describe what are known as "borders of the Land"


In Jewish tradition, these borders define the maximum extent of the land promised to the descendants of Abraham through his son Isaac and grandson Jacob.

The promise was confirmed to Jacob at Genesis 28:12-15, though the borders are still vague and is in terms of "the land on which you are lying".

More precise geographical borders are given in Exodus 23:31 which describes borders as marked by the Red Sea, the "Sea of the Philistines" i.e the Mediterranean, and the "River," (the Euphrates) the traditional furthest extent of the Kingdom of Israel under David.

To answer your 2nd question: Does today's secular state of Israel really represent the Israel of the Old Testament?

IMO, no. Remember the bible says there were 12 tribes of Israel, of which, Judea was 1 of the 12. The Tribe of Judea became the Jewish descendants. Israel and Judea both split up before they both were captured and led into captivity. The tribes were all 'lost' except for Judea.

When modern day Israel was being established a great debate insued as to what the country should be called. One side preferred Judea while the other preferred Israel. The proponents of Judea should have won the day, due to the new nation of Israel was being established by Jews. But the fathers wanted to keep it secular and less provocative to it's neighbors, as history and events happened we see this did not matter.

The modern nation of Israel is or can be looked at as the physical Israel. It is not the spiritual Israel spoken of in the bible. IMO the nation will in the end times be converted to Christianity and will become what Christ always intended. God never breaks a covenant, only man.
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Old 09-29-2009, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: Has the Nation of Israel received all the land God promised to them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbud View Post
.......To answer your 2nd question: Does today's secular state of Israel really represent the Israel of the Old Testament?

IMO, no........
Then doesn't that make the whole question moot?
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:47 PM
Carico
 
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Default Re: Has the Nation of Israel received all the land God promised to them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AIEC View Post
This subject is of great interest to me, there are some who hold to the view that Israel still does not posses all the land which God promised them through Abraham, and so they are looking forward to the fulfillment of this promise. There are others who hold to the view that this promise of possessing the land has already been fulfilled and God owes them no more.

Which do you hold to and why?
It is very interesting to me as well. Ezekiel 47-48 describes the boundaries after the exile from Babylon which would still seem to pertain to today as well. But the real Jerusalem is the new heavenly Jerusalem described in Rev. 21 and that's the only one that matters.
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:59 PM
Yaright
 
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Default Re: Has the Nation of Israel received all the land God promised to them?

The design of the Temple given by God; The layout of all the land that the 'first-born' of Israel inherited; the names of all the cities, valleys, mountains; wells and waters; All these things which can be seen (and more), are mere images of spiritual things which are eternal. Jesus said He is a King, but not of the world of sin. The things of God are hidden in plain sight in the meaning of all things concerning Heaven and earth. We cannot discount what our Father in Heaven has given as a gift. It is a constant reminder by design, of God's Law and unrefutable truth of the need for grace found in Christ, Son of the living God.

Last edited by Yaright : 09-29-2009 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:13 PM
Carico
 
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Default Re: Has the Nation of Israel received all the land God promised to them?

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Originally Posted by Yaright View Post
The design of the Temple given by God; The layout of all the land that the 'first-born' of Israel inherited; the names of all the cities, valleys, mountains; wells and waters; All these things which can be seen (and more), are mere images of spiritual things which are eternal. Jesus said He is a King, but not of the world of sin. The things of God are hidden in plain sight in the meaning of all things concerning Heaven and earth. We cannot discount what our Father in Heaven has given as a gift. It is a constant reminder by design, of God's Law and unrefutable truth of the need for grace found in Christ, Son of the living God.
But compare Ezekiel 47-48 after the exile to the land first given to Israel by God. Do they match up?
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