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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Faith comes by hearing...and hearing by the word of god

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  #1  
Old 08-09-2009, 07:44 AM
Heneni
 
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Default Faith comes by hearing...and hearing by the word of god

What does this scripture mean to you?

God Bless you!
Heneni
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Old 08-09-2009, 07:57 AM
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Default Re: Faith comes by hearing...and hearing by the word of god

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heneni View Post
What does this scripture mean to you?

God Bless you!
Heneni
Great power in scripture but greater still in scripture SPOKEN by the mouth of a spirit filled believer.
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Knowledge and Wisdom are both good and worth finding, but they also have truly bad downsides, just study the life of Solomon to see the truth of this. Love does not puff up. Perfect Love drives out pride. Faith, Hope, and Love are the greatest of all things we can strive for, and the greatest of these are Love. Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with ALL your heart and lean NOT on your own understanding. In all your ways aknowledge Him and He shall direct your paths.
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Old 08-09-2009, 08:44 AM
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Default Re: Faith comes by hearing...and hearing by the word of god

Romans 10:17 ~ So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

It is a two parts sentence:
  1. Faith by hearing;
  2. Hearing by the word of God.
So, there are two things we must receive from the Word of God: hearing from the Word, and faith from hearing.


Hearing

Quote:
Matt. 13:15 ~ For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Again:
Quote:
Matt. 13:9 ~ Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
It is obvious that a man can have his functioning physical ears but cannot hear the Word of God. We conclude that the inner man - the soul, therefore, has ears and eyes that function in unity with the heart.

The Word of God bears record in Heaven. He personifies all that the Father speaks in Heaven. But, we are on the earth... so, the Word of God comes to us. On earth, the Word of God is called the Spirit.

We also learn from Rom. 10:13 that Word of God gives us hearing. So, the Word of God (bearing record in Heaven) first gives us hearing in the ears of our souls. By the inner ears of our souls, we receive the hearing. Even a physically deaf can hear the word of God with the ears of his soul and be healed in his physical ears by the faith that hearing gives him.

But, what is the hearing that the Word gives? It is a qualitative measure of the word of God that the ears of the soul receive. Let him that has ears hear what the Spirit is saying.


Faith

Faith comes by that hearing (the measure of the word that ears of the soul receive). That measure, like a seed, is implanted in hearts of believers for germination and growth unto the Spirit. The end (goal) of faith is salvation of the soul.

Now, we see the process by which the Word of God bearing record in Heaven comes to men on earth:
  1. He gives hearing;
  2. Hearing becomes faith.

Preachers sent by God and having the word of God in themselves declare same for folks to hear (receive measure of the word). And, what measure of the word of God they receive becomes their faith.

Let our ears be open to hearing (receiving a measure of the word of God) by which comes faith. For this reason does God pour out of His Spirit upon the flesh, does our Lord give prophets and preachers who speak forth the word of God that gives hearing by which faith comes.

Scripture has its place and purpose for the people of God, but let us rather obtain the rhema... for in so doing cometh the faith of God.
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Last edited by CI : 08-09-2009 at 08:54 AM.
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  #4  
Old 08-09-2009, 09:22 AM
Heneni
 
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Default Re: Faith comes by hearing...and hearing by the word of god

Good post CI.

Hearing and faith has a lot to do with each other. If we are not able to hear with our spiritual man, we cannot subsequently believe.

What is it that we must hear in order for faith to come? It has to be the unadulterated words of god. Faith can never come through hearing lies. Hence satan has tried to corrupt the word of god .

The goal of faith is this:

1 Peter 1:9 for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Hearing comes first, then faith and then salvation.

Faith is only the start of it all. The very foundation of our salvation. There needs to be an adding on to that faith.

2 Peter 1:5
5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.

So faith is the foundation of salvation, but to work out that salvation, we need to add to faith the above mentioned things. Can we add these things? No, god adds these things. We cannot add love to ourselves, god has to pour his love out in us.

What would be the reason for a lack of these qualities in a man?

Verse 9 explains why:
But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

We become nearsighted and blind when we forget that we have been cleansed of our past sins. If we forget that we are a new creation, we cannot build upon faith, and have added to us the qualities listed in verse 5.

I like the way paul orders things. I think that the order in which he listed the qualities that must be added to faith, happens in stages in our life.

First comes goodness, which does not prove that we have fully developed the ability to love, but we become good. Then we advance and do good according to sound knowledge. Then that knowledge teaches us to be self-controlled. Self-control leads to perseverance, which lead to godliness and which leads to love.

We see that paul always got excited when he heard of the love that the congregations had for one another, because:

1. It proved that they had received the faith by the hearing of his teachings
2. That they were not ineffective in that faith, but was fruitful in it
3. That the evidence of love, the final quality he mensioned in verse 5 was indeed the ultimate evidence of a salvation working itself out.

Philomon 1:7
Your love has given me great joy and encouragement, because you, brother, have refreshed the hearts of the saints.

We see that paul was overjoyed by the love shown by the brother, because this love encouraged the hearts of the saints.

Love encourages. Builds up. And that is what paul was after. The building of he body of christ up into a dwelling for god.

These three remain, faith, hope and love.

So it is therefore important first of all that we hear, hear the unadulterated words of god, so that by it faith may come which is the foundation upon which we finally add love.

The evidence paul had, that he was speaking the truth, was when he observed or heard of the love that the congregations had for one another. He knew that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the words of god (through him) that leads to love. That quality which best refects god glory in us and thru us.

Question: If a man/women does not hear the truth, can they obtain real faith by hearing, and therefore claim to be saved? I dont think they can.

Blessed are the feet of those who bring good tidings!

Heneni
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Old 08-09-2009, 09:46 AM
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Default Re: Faith comes by hearing...and hearing by the word of god

Heneni: may I offer this text here also? I find it a beautiful description of the "children" of Faith. From the Shepard of Hermas:

8[16]:2 She looked upon me, and smiled, and she saith to me, "Seest thou seven women round the tower?" "I see them, lady," say I. "This tower is supported by them by commandment of the Lord.

8[16]:3 Hear now their employments. The first of them, the woman with the strong hands, is called Faith; through her are saved the elect of God.

8[16]:4 And the second, that is girded about and looketh like a man, is called Continence; she is the daughter of Faith. Whosoever then shall follow her, becometh happy in his life, for he shall refrain from all evil deeds, believing that, if he refrain from every evil desire, he shall inherit eternal life."

8[16]:5 "And the others, lady, who be they?" "They are daughters one of the other. The name of the one is Simplicity, of the next, Knowledge, of the next, Guilelessness, of the next, Reverence, of the next, Love. When then thou shalt do all the works of their mother, thou canst live."

8[16]:6 "I would fain know, lady," I say, "what power each of them possesseth." "Listen then," saith she, "to the powers which they have.

8[16]:7 Their powers are mastered each by the other, and they follow each other, in the order in which they were born.From Faith is born Continence, from Continence Simplicity, from Simplicity Guilelessness, from Guilelessness Reverence, from Reverence Knowledge, from Knowledge Love. Their works then are pure and reverent and divine.

8[16]:8 Whosoever therefore shall serve these women, and shall have strength to master their works, shall have his dwelling in the tower with the saints of God."
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  #6  
Old 08-09-2009, 09:50 AM
Heneni
 
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Default Re: Faith comes by hearing...and hearing by the word of god

Lovely Peggy. Thanks for sharing!
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Old 08-09-2009, 09:54 AM
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Default Re: Faith comes by hearing...and hearing by the word of god

Welcome: I like talking about Faith.
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Why are we here, what's life all about? Is God really real, or is there some doubt? Well tonight we're going to sort it all out: For tonight it's the meaning of life" Not Finished Yet
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Old 08-09-2009, 10:31 AM
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Default Re: Faith comes by hearing...and hearing by the word of god

NFY:

Thanks for posting the Bk. of Hermas on this Forum. As I can recall, I neither heard nor read the Book of Hermas until you posted earlier.

I don't know why it was not included in the Bible, but whosoever has the Spirit, and an understanding of the order of all things and their principles, know, in general, that it was truly inspired by God.


Heneni:

Thanks for the very good post. You wrote:
Quote:
We see that paul always got excited when he heard of the love that the congregations had for one another, because:

1. It proved that they had received the faith by the hearing of his teachings
2. That they were not ineffective in that faith, but was fruitful in it
3. That the evidence of love, the final quality he mensioned in verse 5 was indeed the ultimate evidence of a salvation working itself out.
That is outstanding and orderly! The faith we receive is a gift from God and is effective. The receiver must the believe God (the giver of faith), trusting that the word of God (could be promises, commandments, insights, etc) contained in the faith will come to pass.

That believe is our work to do, according to John 6:29. That is how we work out our gift of faith unto knowledge and ultimately unto the blessings (righteousness, glory, light) of God.

You asked: Question: If a man/women does not hear the truth, can they obtain real faith by hearing, and therefore claim to be saved? I dont think they can.

A very good question! Yes, a man can obtain real faith by hearing, but does not do the truth. He becomes a liar... and his faith becomes dead (dormant).

In this we see that just obtaining the gift of faith (word of God in seed form) should not automatically make the recipient claim salvation; the faith obtained must undergo a process (thru truth and knowledge) before the salvation ensues.

If a man does not abide in the truth of God and knowledge of God occassioning his faith, he misses out on salvation. Through disobedience of the truth (lying) and profaning the knowledge of God (as described in Rom. 1), the recipient misses/looses out on his/her salvation. That is the way it works.

Truth encapsulates the working out of a thing (or things) of God. So, believers first obtain the thing, say faith, before the truth. And, truth when abiding, works out knowledge that ultimately bears fruit (reward, crown, prize). Pertaining to the grace of God, glory is the fruit (reward, crown, prize) in which is the salvation of God.
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  #9  
Old 08-09-2009, 10:43 AM
Heneni
 
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Default Re: Faith comes by hearing...and hearing by the word of god

You cant loose your salvation unless you loose your faith, and to loose your faith, you would have to SEE with your own eyes, so that faith would not be necessary and become obsolete.

I did not mean for this to turn into a 'can you loose your salvation thead'. Rather about the issues of faith and hearing.

But if we HAVE to go down that route. I will respond shortly.

God bless CI!
Heneni
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  #10  
Old 08-09-2009, 11:12 AM
Heneni
 
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Default Re: Faith comes by hearing...and hearing by the word of god

In the parable of the sower, the hearts of the people were always the problem. A problem that god had with the isrealites from way back when.

The seed fell on different kinds of soil. And some of the seeds had the opportunity to grow depending on the soil. The isrealites had this ability to give god lip service but their hearts were far from him.

Now in the new creation realities, god gave us a new heart. A promise that he made and fullfilled. A heart that is responsive to god. Else he would not be able to work and to will in us for his good pleasure.

Now back to the parable:
When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart.

This person hears, but does not understand. If a person does not understand the message of the kingdom, can it follow that they can be saved by hearing it? I dont think it can. And then it also does not follow that faith came by hearing that which they dont understand. Because faith comes by hearing, and hearing (understanding)by the word of god.

Therefore the word of god has to come and has to be mixed with FAITH.

We go on to the next verse:

. 20The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who
hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.

This man recieves the message with joy. But has no root. What is the root? Faith, upon which all qualities have to be added to as explained in my previous post.

Next verse:
22The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.

This man hears, but did faith come? He is bound by the deceitfullness of riches. Therefore his heart is somewhere else. He does not receive the message of jesus and jesus as the most precious possession of the soul. He is an idolator. And idolator does not have faith in god, but faith in, for example, riches.

On to the next verse:

23But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown."

This man hears and understands. And goes onto produce a bumper crop. He has received faith, by hearing and understood what he heard. This message falls in good soil. The soil of the new creation man. Who is able to receive faith by hearing the word of god.

Heneni
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