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  #1  
Old 07-30-2009, 09:46 AM
Heneni
 
Posts: n/a
Default The dangerous doctrine of sin

Legalism is a terrible thing. When it gets a hold of you , it wont let go easily. If you dont understand what jesus set you free from, you cannot live in the reality of it. You will think yourself a slave to sin when infact you are set free.

The issue of sin is very closely related to the old written code of the law. You struggle with sin if you struggle with the law.

You cannot say you are not under the law and preach the dangers of sin. Sin is dangerous precisely because of the law.

As a point of discussing we can look at Romans 2:12

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Look at the first part...it says 'all who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law'' Why? Because SIN is what lead to death not the law.Who was not under a law? the gentiles.

Romans 5: 12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned-- 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.

Notice that above scripture says that sin entered the world and DEATH through sin. So all recieved the wages of sin, which was death. Because all men sinned. So if you could manage not to sin, you could manage to not die. But all men sinned the scripture says, so all men died. Jew and Gentile. Death was not the punishment for sin, its was its wages.

Now look at this part of Romans 2:12 .It says: ''and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law''.

But who is our judge these days? Jesus is. HE is our law. But before he could be our law and our judge he had to deal with the old law and therefore the old judge. So, he came to fullfill the law. And because the law was the judge,and the law required punishment jesus took that punishment. But the gentiles were not under the law, but they still had no hope of eternal life since all gentiles sinned and therefore all of them would recieve the wages of sin, which was death. And that is why jesus took death for us all.

So he fullfilled the requirement of the law, the judge, the required punishment for sin, and he took death for us all since the wages of sin is death. For those under the law the law required punishment, for those not under the law, sinning still resulted in death.

Now without the law there is no judge and no punishment, but there was still the wages of sin, which was death.

Now look at romans 2:13

''For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous''

You had to obey the law to be righteous. But for the gentiles and those under grace Jesus is our law and judge so we must obey him.

So what kind of taskmaster is jesus? Our judge?

Romans 4:8

8Blessed is the man
whose sin the Lord will never count against him.

There is only A sin that can count against people that is the ONE sin that leads to death. No other sin, the bible says leads to death anymore because jesus took death for us.

What was the purpose of the law then? It acted as a judge, and when the law came all jews were basically under punishment. Because nobody could fullfill all parts of the law and therefore they would all have to be punished! Jesus took that punishment.

Now what else did the law do?

Romans 3:20

. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

We see elsewhere that the bible says that the law never succeeded in making anybody perfect and so it was defective in that way. But notice this part of the above scripture it says: ''rather through the law we became conscious of sin''

And thats the problem. If you are going to be sin conscious, you are going to be tempted to justify yourself by not doing it, and you are going to feel condemned when you do it. (legalism) So what did jesus do? He came to condemn sin in the flesh. He dealt with that as well.

Romans 5:16

16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

The gift of god, brings justification! Not condemnation.

Romans 5:20

20The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Now what danger does sin pose to us, when grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through jesus? If grace increases when sin increased, do you imagine sin will have the last say?

It will not.

So we know that jesus dealt with the law and judgement and punishment and death, but what about us? How do we fit into the picture?

The wages of sin is death. It would be unjust for god to not give you your wages if you worked for it. And because all gentiles sinned, all gentiles deserved death cause they worked for it. So, unless jesus made a way for the gentiles to NOT recieve the wages of sin, which is death all gentiles will always die. And there would be no hope of a resurrection into an eternal life. So what did you have to do? You had to take your wages, say yes and thank you for it, and you had to DIE! You had to take your wages. So to take you wages, it would mean death, and no resurrection. Unless...you died with christ, and he could resurrect you again! And that is exactly what you did. You died with christ and was resurrected with him, and you were translated out of the kingdom of darkness and into the kingdom of light. You died, were resurrected and taken to paradise, like the thief was. You had to put your faith in jesus to save you from death. So it is by your faith, and through grace that jesus saved you.

The bible says that when jesus is lifted up he will draw all men unto him. And he did, and you were there, and you died with him, and was resurrected with him and your spirit taken to paradise. It is from here that you are born again onto this planet never to die a fatal eternal death. And so the resurrection life of christ is constantly at work in you because it was by his resurrection power that you are alive to god.

The gospel is not new news to those who have been apointed to salvation, it is good news, because you cannot be a witness for christ, unless you witnessed the saving grace of jesus on the cross.

So if we died with christ, did we die to sin as well? Yes...

Romans 6:2

2 We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

So, if you did not die with christ, then you are still awaiting your wages for sin, which is death, but since you died with christ, and therfore received your wages, but far more excellent you recieved a new life with it, you cannot consider yourself alive to sin. Because if you do, you are still going to get your wages, fatal death, and banishment from the eternal god. If you consider sin to be dangerous, you have not died with christ, and you have not died to sin. To die with christ means to die to sin. Death was your wages for sin, jesus took your death, baptised you into death with him, and made you alive to god, not alive to sin again that you might recieve the wages of sin again.

If jesus did not baptise you into his death with him, and if he did not rise from the dead, you are still dead in you sins, because you are still justly required to get the wages of sin if you worked for it. Now...sin has been dealt with, the law has been dealt with, the wages of sin has been dealt with. Now you are free to trust God, to bring you safely home.

Heneni
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  #2  
Old 07-30-2009, 09:58 AM
CatholicCrusader
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The dangerous doctrine of sin

Are you saying that you NEVER sin? Because if you are, THAT is a dangerous doctrine. Christians who think that they never sin will never repent of any wrong things they do.
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  #3  
Old 07-30-2009, 10:11 AM
Heneni
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The dangerous doctrine of sin

LOL...you are a fast reader. No i sin, but if i sin, its with my flesh which has been condemned already. I also have the power to overcome sin in my flesh, precicely because my new spirit has power over the flesh. The new spirit has the seed of god in it, and therefore cannot sin, but my flesh is what sins. So it is condemned. This body of mine is the body of death. Since this body can only work against god. But my spirit is not condemned and cannot inherit the wages of sin, because it already died and was resurrected.

My spirit is incorruptable and its only the incorruptable that can inherit eternal life. The corruptable flesh cannot go with me into heaven, therefore i need a new body. Since i will recieve a new body, this body of death cannot keep me away from my father.

This life is about getting to know my father, to learn to trust and to obey him out of love. This is love that he first loved me, and its because his son did what he did for me, that i love him dearly! This is where i learn to be like my father, this life is where i prepare to inherit my portion, heaven. This life is preparation for a far better life to come. If jesus could pull me out of death there is nothing else he will not do for me. I am alive to god all because his sons resurrection power is at work in me. I died, yet now i am alive again. Free from the wages of sin, free to live a joyful life, free to hope, free to love.

Now, ''everything is permissable, but not everything is advantageous''. There is nothing that governs me other than gods love for me.

With my spirit i serve the law of Christ, the righteous judge, who justified me, and will not unjustify me, will not abandon me, will not let me fade into nothingness, will not let sin have the final say in my life.
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  #4  
Old 07-30-2009, 10:46 AM
Heneni
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The dangerous doctrine of sin

Romans6:. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,A that we should no longer be slaves to sin-- 7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

Look at the tense of the scripture. ''For we know that our old self WAS crucified''

And the last part ''anyone who HAS died HAS been freed from sin''

What does free from sin mean? It means you are free to live to god, and not a prisoner of the wages of sin any longer.

To have died with christ, means you have recieved your wages of sin, and to live to god, you do so by the resurrection power of jesus christ in you.

Romans 6:10

. 10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
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  #5  
Old 07-30-2009, 11:08 AM
Heneni
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The dangerous doctrine of sin

Romans 6:12

''Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires.

The only place that sin can reign in is your MORTAL bodies, it cannot reign in your incorruptable and eternal spirit. Therefore all that have been born of god, spiritually CANNOT go on sinning, since the spirit is not mortal.

Romans 6:13

13Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness.

The passage says that we must not offer our body to sin. Our body, not our spirit, which cannot sin. And also, to offer your body to sin, is to give it power to execute evil through you. There is only one remedy for that....Gods discipline.

God is good all the time and all the time god is good.
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  #6  
Old 07-30-2009, 12:33 PM
CatholicCrusader
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The dangerous doctrine of sin

Mortal Sin
source: LINK

The concept of mortal sin has been an integral part of the Christian message since the very beginning. Literally dozens of passages in the New Testament proclaim it a fearful reality, and these biblical teachings were fully accepted by, and indeed expounded upon, by the early Church Fathers.

It was not until the time of John Calvin that anyone would claim that it was impossible for a true Christian to lose his salvation. That teaching, which was not even shared by Martin Luther and his followers, was a theological novelty of the mid-sixteenth century, a teaching which would have been condemned as a dangerous heresy by all previous generations of Christians. It would drive people to the despair of thinking that, if they had committed grave sins, they had never been true Christians. Further, they would suffer similar anxiety over any subsequent conversion, since their first would not have been genuine, according to this teaching. Or it would drive them into thinking that their grave sins were really not grave at all, for no true Christian could have committed such sins.

In time the "once saved, always saved" teaching even degenerated in many Evangelical circles to the point that some would claim that a Christian could commit grave sins and still remain saved: sin did not injure his relationship with God at all.

Fortunately, most Christians today reject Calvin’s error, acknowledging that there are at least some mortal sins—sins which kill the spiritual life of the soul and deprive a person of salvation, unless he repents. Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, Pentecostals—all acknowledge the possibility of mortal sin at least in some form. Only Presbyterians, Baptists, and those who have been influenced by these two sects reject the reality of mortal sin.

The early Church Fathers, of course, were unanimous in teaching the reality of mortal sin. They had to embrace the doctrine of mortal sin precisely because they recognized not only the salvific power of baptism but also the damning power of certain serious sins. The Church taught that "baptism . . . now saves you" (1 Pet. 3:21; see the Catholic Answers tracts Baptismal Grace and Born of Water and the Spirit). However, since during the persecutions some baptized people denied Christ, and since Christ taught that "whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 10:33), the Church Fathers recognized that it was possible to lose the grace of salvation after baptism.

The idea that one could never lose salvation would have been unimaginable to them, since it was evident from the Bible that baptism saves, that the baptized can deny Christ, and that those who deny Christ will not be saved unless they repent, as did Peter.

It was equally unthinkable to predestinarian thinkers, such as Augustine, who, just two years before he died, taught in his book The Gift of Perseverance that not all who were predestined to come to God’s grace were predestined to remain with him until glory. This was, in fact, the teaching of all the high predestinarians (Augustine, Fulgentius, Aquinas, Luther)—until the time of Calvin.


The Didache


"Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord comes. But you shall assemble together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you be not made complete in the last time" (Didache 16 [A.D. 70]).


Hermas


"And as many of them . . . as have repented, shall have their dwelling in the tower [i.e., the Church]. And those of them who have been slower in repenting shall dwell within the walls. And as many as do not repent at all, but abide in their deeds, shall utterly perish. . . . But if any one relapse into strife, he will be cast out of the tower, and will lose his life. Life is the possession of all who keep the commandments of the Lord" (The Shepherd 3:8:7 [A.D. 80]).


Ignatius of Antioch


"And pray without ceasing in behalf of other men; for there is hope of the repentance, that they may attain to God. For cannot he that falls arise again, and he may attain to God?" (Letter to the Ephesians 10 [A.D. 110]).


Justin Martyr


"[E]ternal fire was prepared for him who voluntarily departed from God and for all who, without repentance, persevere in apostasy" (fragment in Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:26 [A.D. 156]).


Irenaeus


"[T]o Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things on earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess’ [Phil. 2:10–11] to him, and that he should execute just judgment towards all. . . . [T]he ungodly and unrighteous and wicked and profane among men [shall go] into everlasting fire; but [he] may, in the exercise of his grace, confer immortality on the righteous, and holy, and those who have kept his commandments, and have persevered in his love, some from the beginning [of their Christian course], and others from [the date of] their penance, and may surround them with everlasting glory" (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).


Tertullian


"[Regarding confession, some] flee from this work as being an exposure of themselves, or they put it off from day to day. I presume they are more mindful of modesty than of salvation, like those who contract a disease in the more shameful parts of the body and shun making themselves known to the physicians; and thus they perish along with their own bashfulness" (Repentance 10:1 [A.D. 203]).

"Discipline governs a man, power sets a seal upon him; apart from the fact that power is the Spirit, but the Spirit is God. What, moreover, used [the Spirit] to teach? That there must be no communicating with the works of darkness. Observe what he bids. Who, moreover, was able to forgive sins? This is his alone prerogative: for ‘who remits sins but God alone?’ and, of course, [who but he can remit] mortal sins, such as have been committed against himself and against his temple?" (Modesty 21 [A.D. 220]).


Cyprian of Carthage


"Of how much greater faith and salutary fear are they who . . . confess their sins to the priests of God in a straightforward manner and in sorrow, making an open declaration of conscience. . . . I beseech you, brethren, let everyone who has sinned confess his sin while he is still in this world, while his confession is still admissible, while the satisfaction and remission made through the priests are still pleasing before the Lord" (The Lapsed 28 [A.D. 251]).


Basil the Great


"The clergyman who is deposed for mortal sin shall not be excommunicated" (Canonical Letter, canon 32 [A.D. 374]).



Jerome


"There are venial sins and there are mortal sins. It is one thing to owe ten thousand talents, another to owe but a farthing. We shall have to give an accounting for an idle word no less than for adultery. But to be made to blush and to be tortured are not the same thing; not the same thing to grow red in the face and to be in agony for a long time. . . . If we entreat for lesser sins we are granted pardon, but for greater sins, it is difficult to obtain our request. There is a great difference between one sin and another" (Against Jovinian 2:30 [A.D. 393]).


Augustine


"[N]othing could have been devised more likely to instruct and benefit the pious reader of sacred Scripture than that, besides describing praiseworthy characters as examples, and blameworthy characters as warnings, it should also narrate cases where good men have gone back and fallen into evil, whether they are restored to the right path or continue irreclaimable; and also where bad men have changed, and have attained to goodness, whether they persevere in it or relapse into evil; in order that the righteous may be not lifted up in the pride of security, nor the wicked hardened in despair of cure" (Against Faustus 22:96 [A.D. 400]).

"[A]lthough they were living well, [they] have not persevered therein; because they have of their own will been changed from a good to an evil life, and on that account are worthy of rebuke; and if rebuke should be of no avail to them, and they should persevere in their ruined life until death, they are also worthy of divine condemnation forever. Neither shall they excuse themselves, saying—as now they say, ‘Why are we rebuked?’—so then, ‘Why are we condemned, since indeed, that we might return from good to evil, we did not receive that perseverance by which we should abide in good?’ They shall by no means deliver themselves by this excuse from righteous condemnation. . . . since it may be said, ‘O man, in that which you have heard and kept, in that you might persevere if you want’" (Admonition and Grace 11 [A.D. 426]).

"But those who do not belong to the number of the predestined . . . are judged most justly according to their deserts. For either they lie under sin which they contracted originally by their generation and go forth [from this life] with that hereditary debt which was not forgiven by regeneration [baptism], or [if it was forgiven by regeneration] they have added others besides through free choice: choice, I say, free; but not freed. . . . Or they receive God’s grace, but they are temporal and do not persevere; they abandon it and are abandoned. For by free will, since they have not received the gift of perseverance, they are sent away in God’s just and hidden judgment" (ibid., 13).

"[O]f two pious men, why to the one should be given perseverance unto the end, and to the other it should not be given, God’s judgments are even more unsearchable. . . . had not both been called and followed him that called them? And had not both become, from wicked men, justified men, and both been renewed by the laver of regeneration?" (The Gift of Perseverance 9:21 [A.D. 428]).
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  #7  
Old 07-30-2009, 02:33 PM
doinghiswill's Avatar
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 819
Default Re: The dangerous doctrine of sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heneni View Post
Legalism is a terrible thing. When it gets a hold of you , it wont let go easily. If you dont understand what jesus set you free from, you cannot live in the reality of it. You will think yourself a slave to sin when infact you are set free.

The issue of sin is very closely related to the old written code of the law. You struggle with sin if you struggle with the law.

You cannot say you are not under the law and preach the dangers of sin. Sin is dangerous precisely because of the law.

As a point of discussing we can look at Romans 2:12

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Look at the first part...it says 'all who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law'' Why? Because SIN is what lead to death not the law.Who was not under a law? the gentiles.

Romans 5: 12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned-- 13for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.

Notice that above scripture says that sin entered the world and DEATH through sin. So all recieved the wages of sin, which was death. Because all men sinned. So if you could manage not to sin, you could manage to not die. But all men sinned the scripture says, so all men died. Jew and Gentile. Death was not the punishment for sin, its was its wages.

Now look at this part of Romans 2:12 .It says: ''and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law''.

But who is our judge these days? Jesus is. HE is our law. But before he could be our law and our judge he had to deal with the old law and therefore the old judge. So, he came to fullfill the law. And because the law was the judge,and the law required punishment jesus took that punishment. But the gentiles were not under the law, but they still had no hope of eternal life since all gentiles sinned and therefore all of them would recieve the wages of sin, which was death. And that is why jesus took death for us all.

So he fullfilled the requirement of the law, the judge, the required punishment for sin, and he took death for us all since the wages of sin is death. For those under the law the law required punishment, for those not under the law, sinning still resulted in death.

Now without the law there is no judge and no punishment, but there was still the wages of sin, which was death.

Now look at romans 2:13

''For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous''

You had to obey the law to be righteous. But for the gentiles and those under grace Jesus is our law and judge so we must obey him.

So what kind of taskmaster is jesus? Our judge?

Romans 4:8

8Blessed is the man
whose sin the Lord will never count against him.

There is only A sin that can count against people that is the ONE sin that leads to death. No other sin, the bible says leads to death anymore because jesus took death for us.

What was the purpose of the law then? It acted as a judge, and when the law came all jews were basically under punishment. Because nobody could fullfill all parts of the law and therefore they would all have to be punished! Jesus took that punishment.

Now what else did the law do?

Romans 3:20

. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

We see elsewhere that the bible says that the law never succeeded in making anybody perfect and so it was defective in that way. But notice this part of the above scripture it says: ''rather through the law we became conscious of sin''

And thats the problem. If you are going to be sin conscious, you are going to be tempted to justify yourself by not doing it, and you are going to feel condemned when you do it. (legalism) So what did jesus do? He came to condemn sin in the flesh. He dealt with that as well.

Romans 5:16

16Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

The gift of god, brings justification! Not condemnation.

Romans 5:20

20The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Now what danger does sin pose to us, when grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through jesus? If grace increases when sin increased, do you imagine sin will have the last say?

It will not.

So we know that jesus dealt with the law and judgement and punishment and death, but what about us? How do we fit into the picture?

The wages of sin is death. It would be unjust for god to not give you your wages if you worked for it. And because all gentiles sinned, all gentiles deserved death cause they worked for it. So, unless jesus made a way for the gentiles to NOT recieve the wages of sin, which is death all gentiles will always die. And there would be no hope of a resurrection into an eternal life. So what did you have to do? You had to take your wages, say yes and thank you for it, and you had to DIE! You had to take your wages. So to take you wages, it would mean death, and no resurrection. Unless...you died with christ, and he could resurrect you again! And that is exactly what you did. You died with christ and was resurrected with him, and you were translated out of the kingdom of darkness and into the kingdom of light. You died, were resurrected and taken to paradise, like the thief was. You had to put your faith in jesus to save you from death. So it is by your faith, and through grace that jesus saved you.

The bible says that when jesus is lifted up he will draw all men unto him. And he did, and you were there, and you died with him, and was resurrected with him and your spirit taken to paradise. It is from here that you are born again onto this planet never to die a fatal eternal death. And so the resurrection life of christ is constantly at work in you because it was by his resurrection power that you are alive to god.

The gospel is not new news to those who have been apointed to salvation, it is good news, because you cannot be a witness for christ, unless you witnessed the saving grace of jesus on the cross.

So if we died with christ, did we die to sin as well? Yes...

Romans 6:2

2 We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

So, if you did not die with christ, then you are still awaiting your wages for sin, which is death, but since you died with christ, and therfore received your wages, but far more excellent you recieved a new life with it, you cannot consider yourself alive to sin. Because if you do, you are still going to get your wages, fatal death, and banishment from the eternal god. If you consider sin to be dangerous, you have not died with christ, and you have not died to sin. To die with christ means to die to sin. Death was your wages for sin, jesus took your death, baptised you into death with him, and made you alive to god, not alive to sin again that you might recieve the wages of sin again.

If jesus did not baptise you into his death with him, and if he did not rise from the dead, you are still dead in you sins, because you are still justly required to get the wages of sin if you worked for it. Now...sin has been dealt with, the law has been dealt with, the wages of sin has been dealt with. Now you are free to trust God, to bring you safely home.

Heneni
Very nice. just want to throw in a few notes to go along with this. I hope to give a post to go along with it. This can be an issue that can bring great misunderstanding as i saw by CCs post. Verbage is a strange thing.


G266
ἁμαρτία
hamartia
ham-ar-tee'-ah
From G264; sin (properly abstract): - offence, sin (-ful).
G264
ἁμαρτάνω
hamartanō
ham-ar-tan'-o
Perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and the base of G3313; properly to miss the mark (and so not share in the prize), that is, (figuratively) to err, especially (morally) to sin: - for your faults, offend, sin, trespass.

G1344
δικαιόω
dikaioō
dik-ah-yo'-o
From G1342; to render (that is, show or regard as) just or innocent: - free, justify (-ier), be righteous.

G1342
δίκαιος
dikaios
dik'-ah-yos
From G1349; equitable (in character or act); by implication innocent, holy (absolutely or relatively): - just, meet, right (-eous).

Just a few word meanings
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1Jn 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
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  #8  
Old 07-30-2009, 03:45 PM
preachergirl
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The dangerous doctrine of sin

That was fascinating Heneni! I had to stay over and work AM shift after Mn shift and can hardly focus my eyes or concentrate well to reply so deeply...yet I do get it, and yes it is very "reasonable," as God is. My favorite line of all...."There is therefore now no condemnation in Christ. He did not come to condemn but to save...so that if we have any condemnation, it's not from God, but from being without him! Since "in him" is none! How simple yet deep as always God is. Condemnation, if it does not exist "in" him it can only exist without him...amen? So shall we condemn who Christ came to save? And shall we lay anything to God's Elect? If we do, even by chance, we do so wrongly, because who God justifies is indeed justified...and therefore we judge as condemned who God has made free.
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  #9  
Old 07-30-2009, 03:50 PM
Heneni
 
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Default Re: The dangerous doctrine of sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by doinghiswill View Post
Very nice. just want to throw in a few notes to go along with this. I hope to give a post to go along with it. This can be an issue that can bring great misunderstanding as i saw by CCs post. Verbage is a strange thing.


G266
ἁμαρτία
hamartia
ham-ar-tee'-ah
From G264; sin (properly abstract): - offence, sin (-ful).
G264
ἁμαρτάνω
hamartanō
ham-ar-tan'-o
Perhaps from G1 (as a negative particle) and the base of G3313; properly to miss the mark (and so not share in the prize), that is, (figuratively) to err, especially (morally) to sin: - for your faults, offend, sin, trespass.

G1344
δικαιόω
dikaioō
dik-ah-yo'-o
From G1342; to render (that is, show or regard as) just or innocent: - free, justify (-ier), be righteous.

G1342
δίκαιος
dikaios
dik'-ah-yos
From G1349; equitable (in character or act); by implication innocent, holy (absolutely or relatively): - just, meet, right (-eous).

Just a few word meanings
Thanks for reading throught the VERY long OP and taking the time to work this though with me.

Eagerly awaiting your follow up post.
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  #10  
Old 07-30-2009, 04:17 PM
Heneni
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The dangerous doctrine of sin

Quote:
Originally Posted by preachergirl View Post
That was fascinating Heneni! I had to stay over and work AM shift after Mn shift and can hardly focus my eyes or concentrate well to reply so deeply...yet I do get it, and yes it is very "reasonable," as God is. My favorite line of all...."There is therefore now no condemnation in Christ. He did not come to condemn but to save...so that if we have any condemnation, it's not from God, but from being without him! Since "in him" is none! How simple yet deep as always God is. Condemnation, if it does not exist "in" him it can only exist without him...amen? So shall we condemn who Christ came to save? And shall we lay anything to God's Elect? If we do, even by chance, we do so wrongly, because who God justifies is indeed justified...and therefore we judge as condemned who God has made free.
Indeed! To say that the children of god, the regenerated born again children of god , who are IN christ could end up being condemned, it would mean that jesus has to be condemned with them because we are IN him. And we know thats not going to happen. If we are IN christ, there is absolutely nothing to be afraid of. There is no danger. There is nothing that can defeat us, cause if it can, it would have to defeat jesus too, because we are IN him. Hidden IN him. Our flesh is not hidden in him our spirits are, so if our spirits are going to be lost, then jesus must be lost. You cannot be unborn. That is why i strongly believe that the majority of people who are legalistic is so for one of two reasons

1. They are not IN christ jesus
2. They dont fully comprehend that they are in jesus, because they sin and think, well the devil makes them think...'how can you sin and call yourself a christian?' If they understood that the instrument with which they sin is their flesh, they will not feel that their spirits are condemned, but rather understand that the flesh is what makes them sin and is condemned. That is why we ditch this body for a new one. And they have the power with their new incorruptable spirit to overrule the dicates of the flesh.

We are to WALK in the spirit to not fullfill the desires of the flesh, but nobody walks in a day. Its a process, but the spirit is saved, IN christ. The flesh has no say in our eternal destiny. Sin will not have the final word.

And this is what the devil likes to do....he keeps on getting you to look at sin. And sin consciousness leads to more sin. Sin finds its incentive in the law and executes itself in the flesh. The devil keeps on trying to bring us again under a law, to make us feel like when we step over the line, we are condemned. But the reality is, that jesus ALREADY condemned the thing with which you sin, your flesh. So....we are safe.

And as we learn to walk in the spirit we simply loose our taste for sin, and i think the fact that we get tired of the resulting condemnation that it constantly brings, we get fed up with it. There is, as you say 'no condemnation for those who are IN christ jesus''. But if you dont know that sin has been dealt with on the cross, you will think your spirit is going to be lost.

So in the end we have people trying to give up sin, and they cant and then they loose hope. But if you know that your hope is in christ, and your spirit is hidden in him, you know you are safe, and you will put sin and the flesh and the law where jesus put it, on the cross, and leave it there. Otherwise you will constantly be living in fear of being lost, you will feel that sin is going to have the final say, you feel that it all depends on you, and we know that we cannot save ourselves. Jesus started it, jesus will finish it.

Will jesus, after he has put us in him, take us out? Will jesus who has baptised us into his death, unbaptize us? Will jesus who has justified us, unjustifie us? Will jesus who forgives our sins, unforgive us? These things wont happen.

LOL...i know the OP was very long, i would be surprised if many people read it, but maybe those who think that sin has far more say in our lives than it actually does will benefit from it.

You must be tired. Match sticks work but they hurt. hheheh. And here I give you another essay to read through.

Love you sis!
heneni

Last edited by Heneni : 07-30-2009 at 04:20 PM.
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