True2Ourselves
Already a member? login
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
Divider
  
+
Register FAQ A-Z directory Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Q: for those who believe in Gen. account of the Fall

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-12-2009, 02:03 PM
Windsong's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 292
Default Q: for those who believe in Gen. account of the Fall

1. Did Adam know that Satan (fallen Lucifer) was behind the words of the snake? I ask this because when God passes judgment on the snake He in part is directly talking to Satan yet really the snake... He certainly understood and Satan understood but did Adam get it?

2. In the NT Satan is called a murderer from the beginning (sorry would have to look it up it evades me at that moment) - who did he murder, or is this indicating that when man was tempted and fell that Satan thought that would be the end of man?

In Christ
Windy
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-12-2009, 04:16 PM
Amadeus's Avatar
Knight of the Forum
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,171
Default Re: Q: for those who believe in Gen. account of the Fall

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:44
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-12-2009, 04:48 PM
Windsong's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 292
Default Re: Q: for those who believe in Gen. account of the Fall

That is the one - no comment? Lookers and no comments hehe guess only I thought it was interesting...

Windy
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-12-2009, 04:55 PM
CI's Avatar
CI CI is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 254
Default Re: Q: for those who believe in Gen. account of the Fall

1. Prior to eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve had no knowledge of evil. Therefore, they did not know the Adversary who is called Satan - the Devil.

2. Whosoever hates does not love. S/He is a murderer because of hatred. From the beginning (which is by the faith of God), the Adversary (Satan) had/has neither faith nor the love of God. Therefore, he can only hate - and is a murderer because he hates.
__________________
Grace and peace from the Father and from the Christ unto all!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-12-2009, 06:51 PM
Windsong's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 292
Default Re: Q: for those who believe in Gen. account of the Fall

interesting ty - I was thinking of Adam at the "curse" did he know then about satan being there.

Thanks for the thoughts though
Windy
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-12-2009, 06:56 PM
Amadeus's Avatar
Knight of the Forum
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,171
Default Re: Q: for those who believe in Gen. account of the Fall

How about Adam was the murderer from the beginning. He killed mankind. In the day that he ate from the forbidden tree he was dead. All of his descendents walked in death [they were the living dead] until Jesus brought Life back for whosoever will?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-12-2009, 08:46 PM
CI's Avatar
CI CI is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 254
Default Re: Q: for those who believe in Gen. account of the Fall

Amadeus:

How did Adam kill mankind?

Physically, he lived to have children and several generations upon generations continue after him.

Speaking of the soul (which encapsulates the spirit inter alia), Adam could not kill because of Mat. 10:28 that declares:
Quote:
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him (speaking of God) which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
I don't think Adam the first killed anybody. Rather, any soul that sins in the similitude of Adam or anyone else shall die.

Knowledge of God (Father and Son) is life/light. Conversely, knowledge of evil is death/darkness. That knowledge of evil can also kill the body of any man who refuses the enlightenment of Jesus Christ.

Everyman is responsible for the knowledge he receives and retains; such a man will be judged according to his own deeds... not according to Adam the first.
__________________
Grace and peace from the Father and from the Christ unto all!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-13-2009, 09:34 PM
Amadeus's Avatar
Knight of the Forum
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,171
Default Re: Q: for those who believe in Gen. account of the Fall

Quote:
How did Adam kill mankind?
Were not Adam and Eve the only people at the time?

“But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” Gen 2:17

They both ate of the fruit. Is God a liar?

Quote:
Physically, he lived to have children and several generations upon generations continue after him.
But… physically, he did not die when he ate from the forbidden tree.

Quote:
Speaking of the soul (which encapsulates the spirit inter alia), Adam could not kill because of Mat. 10:28 that declares:
Quote:
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him (speaking of God) which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
“So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.” Isa 55:11

When God speaks, it is not like when we speak. His Word is sure. Adam killed himself as certainly as if he had slashed his own wrists. God’s Word was a promise. When Adam disobeyed, he in effect killed himself by invoking God’s Word on himself.
Quote:
I don't think Adam the first killed anybody. Rather, any soul that sins in the similitude of Adam or anyone else shall die.

Knowledge of God (Father and Son) is life/light. Conversely, knowledge of evil is death/darkness. That knowledge of evil can also kill the body of any man who refuses the enlightenment of Jesus Christ.
The reason Jesus came was to bring that which was lost: Life!
“I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” John 10:10

“Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.” II Cor 3:6

God gave Adam Life when He breathed into him. Adam quenched that Life by disobedience.

Was there no Life at all then in the OT? Of course, because had received the Holy Spirit, which is the Life God had given to Adam.

Remember David had it and feared losing it!

“Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.” Psalm 51:11

Others had it as well. The prophets of God had Life through the Holy Spirit.
Jesus brought to whosoever was willing, the opportunity of Life which would never end.

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?” John 11:25-26

Quote:
Everyman is responsible for the knowledge he receives and retains; such a man will be judged according to his own deeds... not according to Adam the first.
All that “everyman” has or has had after Adam was hope embodied in a bit of faith, a bit of light that would eventually be quenched if not nourished properly. Jesus showed us how to increase that tiny glimmer of light, which allowed us to come to Him into eternal Life

“Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.” John 6:54-55

His flesh is the Word of God, which is brought to Life within a man by the Spirit of God, which is the blood of Jesus.

“For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.” Lev 17:11

But the Life of spiritual man is the blood of Jesus, which is the Spirit which quickens [brings to Life].



__________________

Last edited by Amadeus : 07-16-2009 at 12:36 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-13-2009, 09:45 PM
Windsong's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 292
Default Re: Q: for those who believe in Gen. account of the Fall

The Bible is the one which called Satan a murderer and I don't know where it ever calls Adam one.... Though I could make a case that Adam understood that Eve could die apart from him and did nothing - so in that sense he might have been a murderer in his heart. But by the time he ate of the fruit I don't think it was a deliberate act to kill off humanity - God judges the heart.

It is however possible that Satan was aware of the agreement (covenant) between God and Adam and indeed set out to kill off man period because at the very basic he was jealous of man being in the position of steward of earth before God.

If Satan doesn't exist then how did the snake do what he did?

In Christ
Windy
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The fall of Jerusalem colin Theology 0 06-18-2009 07:35 PM
creation and fall of man colin Theology 5 03-25-2009 10:21 PM
The Fall colin Theology 2 03-25-2009 10:14 PM
By what name should we fall under Israel General Discussions 6 01-28-2009 08:52 PM
The Fall of Man thlax9 Bible Chat 458 01-18-2009 01:44 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:25 PM.


true2ourselves
 
 
 

Flashcoms

You need to upgrade your Flash Player.

Version 8 or higher is required.

download from http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29