[danp]

Hi to all , Heb 6:1 , Therefore , LEAVING the discussion of the elementary
principles of Christ , let us go on to perfection , not laying again the goundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God .

1) The word " leaving " is an Aorist Participle and can be translated " having left " the beginning word of the Messiah . But this leaving is not permanent but Temporary .

2) Paul uses the word " leaving " to show them that they should go on to other aspects of teaching that would build them up in the faith , to make them mature in the things of God .

3) The verb " to go on " is in the Subjunative Mood , plural form , and can be translated " we should go on " to maturity or perfection which means " full growth , maturity , , completion .

4) The word " foundation " does not have the Greek Definite Article " the " , so it is " a foundation " .

5) The phrase " not laying again " mean ?

6) The Greek word for " laying " is KATABALLO , and is translated " cast down " in 2 Cor 4:9 and in Rev 12:10 . What is Paul trying to teach here ?

7) I will be going to verse 2 , because there are many that believe that Baptism saves .
They are to FORSAKE the Doctrine of Baptisms . These baptisms involve water and there is more than one baptism .

8) they are also mentioned in Heb 9:10 as , " VARIOUS WASHING " . It is the same Greek word in each verse , BAPTISMOS . This Greek word refers to WASHING and CLEANSING .

9) During the Lord's earthly ministry , the Hebrews WASHED their cups, pots copper vessals, and beds or couches that they set on at mealtime , Mark 7:4,8 . There was more to this doctrine than John's baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins .

10) All of this washing was a PART of Judaism , not Christianity .

[Amadeus]

Originally Posted by danp

Hi to all , Heb 6:1 , Therefore , LEAVING the discussion of the elementary
principles of Christ , let us go on to perfection , not laying again the goundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God .

1) The word " leaving " is an Aorist Participle and can be translated " having left " the beginning word of the Messiah . But this leaving is not permanent but Temporary .

2) Paul uses the word " leaving " to show them that they should go on to other aspects of teaching that would build them up in the faith , to make them mature in the things of God .

3) The verb " to go on " is in the Subjunative Mood , plural form , and can be translated " we should go on " to maturity or perfection which means " full growth , maturity , , completion .

4) The word " foundation " does not have the Greek Definite Article " the " , so it is " a foundation " .

5) The phrase " not laying again " mean ?

6) The Greek word for " laying " is KATABALLO , and is translated " cast down " in 2 Cor 4:9 and in Rev 12:10 . What is Paul trying to teach here ?

7) I will be going to verse 2 , because there are many that believe that Baptism saves .
They are to FORSAKE the Doctrine of Baptisms . These baptisms involve water and there is more than one baptism .

8) they are also mentioned in Heb 9:10 as , " VARIOUS WASHING " . It is the same Greek word in each verse , BAPTISMOS . This Greek word refers to WASHING and CLEANSING .

9) During the Lord's earthly ministry , the Hebrews WASHED their cups, pots copper vessals, and beds or couches that they set on at mealtime , Mark 7:4,8 . There was more to this doctrine than John's baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins .

10) All of this washing was a PART of Judaism , not Christianity .

Your understanding of the original languages and grammar may help you, but for most people it simply goes over their heads. Jesus never spoke over people's heads. He spoke to hungry hearts. Some who were very ignorant were able to understand, but some who were very learned understood almost nothing of what He said.

You continue to apparently draw a sharp line between Judaism and Christianity, but I for one cannot see your line. You would have us believe that it is God's line, but the waters are still too muddy for me to see or understand why I or anyone should believe as you do. I am not saying that you are wrong. I am saying that you are not coming through!

I really am very hungry and thirsty for anything that God has for me. What is it that you believe He is saying through you?

[winsome]

Originally Posted by danp

5) The phrase " not laying again " mean ?

6) The Greek word for " laying " is KATABALLO , and is translated " cast down " in 2 Cor 4:9 and in Rev 12:10 . What is Paul trying to teach here ?

7) I will be going to verse 2 , because there are many that believe that Baptism saves .
They are to FORSAKE the Doctrine of Baptisms . These baptisms involve water and there is more than one baptism .

You have made a big jump there from cast down to forsake. Not the same thing.

[danp]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

Your understanding of the original languages and grammar may help you, but for most people it simply goes over their heads. Jesus never spoke over people's heads. He spoke to hungry hearts. Some who were very ignorant were able to understand, but some who were very learned understood almost nothing of what He said.

You continue to apparently draw a sharp line between Judaism and Christianity, but I for one cannot see your line. You would have us believe that it is God's line, but the waters are still too muddy for me to see or understand why I or anyone should believe as you do. I am not saying that you are wrong. I am saying that you are not coming through!

I really am very hungry and thirsty for anything that God has for me. What is it that you believe He is saying through you?

Hi Amadeus , you have already seen 1 tiny part of it . There is a difference between Judaism and Chrisianity .

1) Most are like in 2 Peter 3:15-16 , where Peter says that Pauls epistles are inspired , and that they are hard to be understood , which they that are unlearned ( un-learned in Pauline truth ) and unstable WREST , as they do also the other scriptures , unto there own destruction .

2) It will take a little more time to bring it all out . Just remember that was written in Greek and it helps to understand the simple stuff and will do my best explain it .

3) Only those that are seeker and will be like those at Bereans were more noble then those at Thessanloic , for they reveived
the word with readyness of mind and checked the scriptures to see if what Paul said was true. I just want an honest hearing and if not , OK . DAN P

[Josif59]

Greetings Dan,

Concerning your Heb 6:1. Does one called Jesus of Nazareth say: "Follow me."? Or does He say: "Follow me until some smooth talker comes along and leads you astray by duping you into leaving behind My simple truths and you end up following him instead of me."? Which statement does Jesus of Nazareth make?

Concerning your water baptism. That tradition of man has been around a long time and is associated with a number of manmade religions, Judaism and christianity included. Seems a number of people are as confused as Nicodemus was about being 'born of water' and being 'born of spirit'. Anyone who has ever been around a pregnant woman when her water breaks certainly understands what it is to be 'born of water'. Being 'born of spirit' has nothing to do with water. And that ancient 'tradition of man' called water baptism has nothing to do with either way of being 'born'.

P.S. Try and keep your focus on the One who says: "Follow me." His 'elementary principles' are thee key to ones salvation. They have never needed any futher explanation or embellishment; nor have they ever needed any alterations or abandonment (leaving behind).

Blessings upon you.

[Amadeus]

Hello Dan,

Originally Posted by danp

Hi Amadeus , you have already seen 1 tiny part of it . There is a difference between Judaism and Chrisianity .

1) Most are like in 2 Peter 3:15-16 , where Peter says that Pauls epistles are inspired , and that they are hard to be understood , which they that are unlearned ( un-learned in Pauline truth ) and unstable WREST , as they do also the other scriptures , unto there own destruction .

2) It will take a little more time to bring it all out . Just remember that was written in Greek and it helps to understand the simple stuff and will do my best explain it .

3) Only those that are seeker and will be like those at Bereans were more noble then those at Thessanloic , for they reveived
the word with readyness of mind and checked the scriptures to see if what Paul said was true. I just want an honest hearing and if not , OK . DAN P

I try to give everyone and honest hearing to the best of my ability. I tire easily and my concentration is not what it was, but I believe that it is God that God that gives the increase so my shortcomings should not matter for anything that He has to give me.

From my previous replies to you on another thread you probably know that I already have considerably different belief, but please don't hold that against me. I am still willing to listen. To be changed? I leave that I hope in the hands of God!

John,

[CI]

2) It will take a little more time to bring it all out . Just remember that was written in Greek and it helps to understand the simple stuff and will do my best explain it.

To really understand scriptures as God intends we understand, it is best to rely on the knowledge base He gives us as gift.

That trumps over reliance on languages of men that are dynamic in nature, rendering slightly or significant differences in meaning over time.

It also excludes unnecessary hair-splitting of greek, hebrew, aramaic words and grammar according to the understanding of whoever is doing the hair-splitting.

Any one who has the gift of understanding from God easily and readily understand the message of scriptures no matter which version of the Bible is used. Knowledge of God/Christ interpretes scripture, not vice versa.


The meaning of Heb 6:1-2

Heb. 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Advancing from the principles of the doctrine of Christ (Anointing, Anointed One), let us go unto perfection (completion) by walking in the other principles of the doctrine of the Spirit/Glory/God.

The Christ (Anointing) is effectively the first principle of the doctrine of the Spirit. There are 6 others that follow, combining altogether in the 7 spirits that stand before the God of the earth.

In advancing from the Christ unto completion of other principles in the doctrine of the Spirit, we'd have laid the foundation of repentance from dead works having repented of sins, being forgiven of sins, and being cleansed from sins by the Blood of Jesus Christ unto redemption (by grace) and sanctification (by the Spirit and by grace).

Also in advancing, we'd have laid the foundation by walking in the steps of faith (like Abraham did) toward God, which steps of faith bring about our good report (like patriarchs mentioned in Heb. 11) and the promise (the very same Spirit/perfection we are advancing into that the patriarchs did not receive but had to wait for us).


Heb. 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Also in advancing, we'd have laid the foundation by being baptized in the water (of grace and of the Spirit of grace/Christ, hence, baptisms).

Also in advancing, we'd have laid the foundation of having the hands (faithfulness and judgment [justification]) of God laid on us.

Also in advancing, we'd have laid the foundation of dying to the flesh (human nature) and raised up in life that the Spirit/Christ gives.

Also in advancing, we'd have laid the foundation of eternal justification that is the gift of eternal life by the perfect Spirit.

The judgment of God is two sided: Justification unto life, and condemnation unto death; we obtain the former in Christ, even as it written that there is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit - Romans 8:1. Christ (the Anointing) is the onset of the manifested Spirit.

Let every language of man fit and be subject to the gift of the knowledge of God.

[danp]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

Your understanding of the original languages and grammar may help you, but for most people it simply goes over their heads. Jesus never spoke over people's heads. He spoke to hungry hearts. Some who were very ignorant were able to understand, but some who were very learned understood almost nothing of what He said.

You continue to apparently draw a sharp line between Judaism and Christianity, but I for one cannot see your line. You would have us believe that it is God's line, but the waters are still too muddy for me to see or understand why I or anyone should believe as you do. I am not saying that you are wrong. I am saying that you are not coming through!

I really am very hungry and thirsty for anything that God has for me. What is it that you believe He is saying through you?

Hi Amadeus , I remember when Jesus was speaking in PARABLES , the commom people did not understand , why is that ??? Jesus did not want them to know and ONLY his disciples understood , bevause he told them what the Parables meant .

My reasoning is found in Matt 13:14- 17 and Psa 78:1-72 , and this is Israel and not Christianity , what do you say????

[Amadeus]

Originally Posted by danp

Hi Amadeus , I remember when Jesus was speaking in PARABLES , the commom people did not understand , why is that ??? Jesus did not want them to know and ONLY his disciples understood , bevause he told them what the Parables meant .

My reasoning is found in Matt 13:14- 17 and Psa 78:1-72 , and this is Israel and not Christianity , what do you say????

My reasoning is of different sort. I will not yet say yea or nay. I will study and pray on it and get back to you. John,

[colin]

Dan, it just means move on past the earthly understanding and get into the spiritual understanding witch is only seen by faith. Get off the milk of the church and get into the meat of the scriptures. That is what we are doing my friend.

It doesn't matter what language you use, the spirit speaks the same in all languages. If doesn't matter what translation you use, same thing the spirit still speaks the same.