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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Why the Jews and NOT Gentiles ???

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  #1  
Old 06-23-2009, 07:50 PM
danp's Avatar
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Default Why the Jews and NOT Gentiles ???

Hi to all , and I have a question for you all .

1) Who was Baptism given to , and do I have a verse ?

2) I will , say yes I do , and refer you to Matt 3: 1-7 and you would all see that the Context is Israel .

3) Then I could point to Matt 3:11 and say that Israel were going to be Baptized with the Holy Spirit and FIRE .

4) Why are not the Gentiles given similar Promise , like Israel ?

5) Was Baptism ONLY given to Israel ?

6) Why ????
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  #2  
Old 06-23-2009, 07:59 PM
Daniel
 
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Default Re: Why the Jews and NOT Gentiles ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by danp View Post
Hi to all , and I have a question for you all .

1) Who was Baptism given to , and do I have a verse ?

2) I will , say yes I do , and refer you to Matt 3: 1-7 and you would all see that the Context is Israel .

3) Then I could point to Matt 3:11 and say that Israel were going to be Baptized with the Holy Spirit and FIRE .

4) Why are not the Gentiles given similar Promise , like Israel ?

5) Was Baptism ONLY given to Israel ?

6) Why ????
Actually that 3 questions. Ill try to help

1-In mathew we see that the baptism in that context was for jews.
In other places we see baptism for the gentiles. Like in acts 10:48

2- So answering your second question we see that no baptism was not only for the jews

3- why? because the bible says gentiles were baptised as well
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  #3  
Old 06-23-2009, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: Why the Jews and NOT Gentiles ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Actually that 3 questions. Ill try to help

1-In mathew we see that the baptism in that context was for jews.
In other places we see baptism for the gentiles. Like in acts 10:48

2- So answering your second question we see that no baptism was not only for the jews

3- why? because the bible says gentiles were baptised as well
1) That will bring forth many other questions like ,

2) That was still Baptism under the Law ?

3) Why did Cornelius receive the Holy Spirit BEFORE being Baptized ?

4) Why it is different , is BECAUSE , Cornelius was not Saved by Grace ?

5) I can say with confidence say that Cornelius than became a Jew !!!

6) They at this time , THEY DID NOT know about the Body of Christ , because it was not yet REVEALED bu Paul .

7) This deserves it own Thread , on Acts 10 and will do one soon .
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  #4  
Old 06-23-2009, 08:17 PM
Daniel
 
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Default Re: Why the Jews and NOT Gentiles ???

[quote=danp;42137]1) That will bring forth many other questions like ,

Quote:
2) That was still Baptism under the Law ?
I dont know what you mean by this. What is baptism under the law?

Quote:
3) Why did Cornelius receive the Holy Spirit BEFORE being Baptized ?
He recieved the holy ghost because he believed on Jesus as his saviour. being baptised is meant as a sign. It symbolises the death burial and ressurection of our Lord. The gift of the holy spirit comes upon salvation.

Quote:
4) Why it is different , is BECAUSE , Cornelius was not Saved by Grace ?
This is your opinion? Im not seeing in scripture where we can conclude this

Quote:
5) I can say with confidence say that Cornelius than became a Jew !!!
Your losing me quick here. He became a jew?

Quote:
6) They at this time , THEY DID NOT know about the Body of Christ , because it was not yet REVEALED bu Paul .
Ok Im lost. what are we talking about

Quote:
7) This deserves it own Thread , on Acts 10 and will do one soon
I hope its less confusing

Last edited by Daniel : 06-23-2009 at 08:39 PM.
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  #5  
Old 06-23-2009, 09:30 PM
alphaomega3160
 
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Default Re: Why the Jews and NOT Gentiles ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by danp View Post
Hi to all , and I have a question for you all .

Baptized with the Holy Spirit and FIRE .

4) Why are not the Gentiles given similar Promise , like Israel ?

5) Was Baptism ONLY given to Israel ?

6) Why ????
reading ezekiel 23 ; a better understanding of who the gentiles are should help
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  #6  
Old 06-24-2009, 01:08 PM
Dewayne's Avatar
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Default Re: Why the Jews and NOT Gentiles ???

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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post



He recieved the holy ghost because he believed on Jesus as his saviour. being baptised is meant as a sign. It symbolises the death burial and ressurection of our Lord. The gift of the holy spirit comes upon salvation.



Amen brother! all most sounds like we might go to church together,
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Trucking for Jesus! Love everybody, Dewayne
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  #7  
Old 06-24-2009, 02:36 PM
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Default Re: Why the Jews and NOT Gentiles ???

Might I add that ALL are saved by Grace - none were saved by the Law - it wasn't intended for that purpose, it was there to point to the Sacrifice which would come - read Psalms and you will see that some understood it that way.

Let me repeat in different form - NONE are saved apart from GRACE. No man can get to God on his own (no not even the Jew via the Law - remember they couldn't keep the said law)- you need to go back and understand why all men need salvation and why all men must be saved by grace. (do not let a dogmatic view of dispensationalism block your understanding of Scriptural truth.)

In Christ
Windy
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  #8  
Old 06-24-2009, 07:11 PM
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Default Re: Why the Jews and NOT Gentiles ???

[quote=Daniel;42139]
Quote:
Originally Posted by danp View Post
1) That will bring forth many other questions like ,



I dont know what you mean by this. What is baptism under the law?



He recieved the holy ghost because he believed on Jesus as his saviour. being baptised is meant as a sign. It symbolises the death burial and ressurection of our Lord. The gift of the holy spirit comes upon salvation.



This is your opinion? Im not seeing in scripture where we can conclude this



Your losing me quick here. He became a jew?



Ok Im lost. what are we talking about



I hope its less confusing
Hi Daniel , We know that Jesus was born under the Law . That is a given .

1) Jesus lived under the Law of Moses and that is a given .

2) Jesus died and fulfilled the Law of Moses , and that is a given .

3) We should all be on the same page .

4 ) That means that the Baptism of John was also under the Law and you see John 's disciples even in Acts 19:3-6 .

5) When a Gentile accepted the Law of Moses like in Acts 2:10 , they are called PROSELYTES , and there were proselytes who came to the Day of Pentecost . They did not even know that there is something CALLED the Body of Christ , until it was revealed by Paul in ;
#1 , 1 Cor 12:27
#2 , Eph 4:12
#3 , Rom 7:4
#4, Rom 12:5
#5 , 1 Cor 10:17
#6 , Eph 2:14-16
#7 , Eph 4:4
#8 , Col 3:12
#9 , 1 Cor 12:25 just to mention a few verses where the Body of Christ is written .

6) In Acts 10 : 47 , Baptism is still in force with the gift of the Holy Spirit .


7) We receive the Holy Spirit the minute we are saved in 1 Cor 12:13 and are placed into the Body of Christ .

8) Does the Law Moses gift us with the Holy Spirit ? IT DOES NOT .


9) Cornelius received what Peter did at Pentecost and that was prophesied in Joel 2 .

10) Paul , years later was not preaching Baptism and I have A thread on 1 Cor 1:17 .

11) So , Cornelius had to become Proselyte , because , NO one new that there was a Body of Christ .
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  #9  
Old 06-24-2009, 07:18 PM
Daniel
 
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Default Re: Why the Jews and NOT Gentiles ???

[quote=danp;42235]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel View Post

Hi Daniel , We know that Jesus was born under the Law . That is a given .

1) Jesus lived under the Law of Moses and that is a given .

2) Jesus died and fulfilled the Law of Moses , and that is a given .

3) We should all be on the same page .

4 ) That means that the Baptism of John was also under the Law and you see John 's disciples even in Acts 19:3-6 .

5) When a Gentile accepted the Law of Moses like in Acts 2:10 , they are called PROSELYTES , and there were proselytes who came to the Day of Pentecost . They did not even know that there is something CALLED the Body of Christ , until it was revealed by Paul in ;
#1 , 1 Cor 12:27
#2 , Eph 4:12
#3 , Rom 7:4
#4, Rom 12:5
#5 , 1 Cor 10:17
#6 , Eph 2:14-16
#7 , Eph 4:4
#8 , Col 3:12
#9 , 1 Cor 12:25 just to mention a few verses where the Body of Christ is written .

6) In Acts 10 : 47 , Baptism is still in force with the gift of the Holy Spirit .


7) We receive the Holy Spirit the minute we are saved in 1 Cor 12:13 and are placed into the Body of Christ .

8) Does the Law Moses gift us with the Holy Spirit ? IT DOES NOT .


9) Cornelius received what Peter did at Pentecost and that was prophesied in Joel 2 .

10) Paul , years later was not preaching Baptism and I have A thread on 1 Cor 1:17 .

11) So , Cornelius had to become Proselyte , because , NO one new that there was a Body of Christ .
I dont think it was necesary for one to believe there was a body of Christ. the fact is cornelius believed on jesus and recieved the Holy Ghost. did all proselytes recieve the Holy Spirit?

So although the phrase "body of Christ was not mentioned yet, I dont think it is correct to conclude that it did not exist
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  #10  
Old 06-25-2009, 02:10 PM
danp's Avatar
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Default Re: Why the Jews and NOT Gentiles ???

[quote=Daniel;42238]
Quote:
Originally Posted by danp View Post

I dont think it was necesary for one to believe there was a body of Christ. the fact is cornelius believed on jesus and recieved the Holy Ghost. did all proselytes recieve the Holy Spirit?

So although the phrase "body of Christ was not mentioned yet, I dont think it is correct to conclude that it did not exist
Hi Daniel , you can believe what you want , but where the verse that says that ?
Can you prove that it did exist BEFORE Pentecost ?

You are ignoring and event that is Historical and the Context ?

Can all ignore the fact that it is Prohecy of Joel 2 and that these were the last days of Israel , Acts 2:17 ?
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