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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Bad news for Israel ???

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  #1  
Old 06-20-2009, 02:23 PM
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Default Bad news for Israel ???

Hi to all , and what happens next , happened in the beginning of Jesus earthly ministry .

1) John the Baptist comes on the scene Baptizing Israel , so the Context and Historically , it it is the Nation of Israel .

2) Even in v 7 , the Pharisees and Sadducess tried to be Baptized by John and he would not permit it , unless they could show friut of rependance , v8 .

3) Then in verse 10 , look at the statement that Jesus makes ; the AXE IS LAID to the root of the FIG TREE !!!

4) Jesus is going to cut the tree down !!!

5) Why is it going TO be CUT DOWN ?


6) Because Israel as a Nation IN NOT PRODUCING Fruit for God , and verse 10 , explains that .

7) On Luke 13:6-9 , I have an OP on this site that explains what Luke 13: 6-9 means , Israel WILL BE TEMPORARILY BE SET A SIDE , see Rom 11:1- 12 , and for 2000 years Israel with all it Law , Priests , and Temple have been set aside .

8) That means that there are NO PRIESTS IN THE BODY OF CHRIST , OR ANY MAN MADE TRADITION FROM MAN !!!
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  #2  
Old 06-20-2009, 02:41 PM
Daniel
 
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Default Re: Bad news for Israel ???

Hello friend.
Israel is not the body of Christ. The body of Christ is those who are in Christ and Christ in them.

Im not sure what your gettin at.
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  #3  
Old 06-20-2009, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: Bad news for Israel ???

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Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Hello friend.
Israel is not the body of Christ. The body of Christ is those who are in Christ and Christ in them.

Im not sure what your gettin at.
Hi Daniel , you are right and that is what I believe , but there are many that believe that the Body of Christ is NOW Israel or are Spiritual israel .

What I am trying to show is that Israel has been set aside for 2000 years and that God is not dealing with Israel , Priests, Temple or sacrifices , as it will during the Great Tribulation . Check Rom 11:1-36 . Israel has ONLY been Temporarily set aside until the , Rom 11:25 , fulness of the Gentiles be come in .
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Old 06-20-2009, 07:21 PM
Daniel
 
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Default Re: Bad news for Israel ???

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by danp View Post
Hi Daniel , you are right and that is what I believe , but there are many that believe that the Body of Christ is NOW Israel or are Spiritual israel .
I think some may say that Israel was Gods chosen people and now the body of christ are Gods chosen. I think that would be a good comparison.

I cant see where one would say we are Israel unless that is what they meant-Gods chosen people. Otherwise they would be in error.
I feel in my spirit however that you are fishing around for something else with this post. I could be wrong.

God Bless

Last edited by Daniel : 06-20-2009 at 07:24 PM.
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  #5  
Old 06-21-2009, 07:11 PM
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Default Re: Bad news for Israel ???

Israel means royality. The royal family of God set to rule over his people.It doesn't matter if they come from Jacob or anyone, The rulers of our religion are Israelites. At the seen from heaven the 24 fall and lay their crowns at the feet of the lord. Each tribe has its king but only one is king of all the kings.
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Old 06-22-2009, 06:18 AM
CatholicCrusader
 
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Default Re: Bad news for Israel ???

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Originally Posted by danp View Post
....there are many that believe that the Body of Christ is NOW Israel or are Spiritual israel......
Thats because it is! Christians have always acknowledged that the Church is spiritual Israel or the "new Israel". This is indicated in Paul’s writings: In Romans 9:6 he says that "not all who are of Israel are Israel." This indicates the existence of two Israels. One—"all who are of Israel"—indicates the ethnic people, not all of whom believe in Jesus. The other Israel, the context reveals, does not include those who have rejected the Messiah. This new Israel, founded by Messiah, exists in spiritual continuity with the Old Testament saints and so counts as a "spiritual Israel." It includes Gentiles who believe in the Messiah and so through baptism are spiritually circumcised (Col. 2:11–12) and are reckoned as spiritual Jews (Rom. 2:26–29).

In his letter to the Ephesians Paul is even more explicit about the Gentiles’ spiritual inclusion when he states that "you Gentiles in the flesh . . . were [once] separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel . . . But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near . . . So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints" (2:11–13, 19).
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Old 06-22-2009, 06:43 AM
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Default Re: Bad news for Israel ???

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Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
Thats because it is! Christians have always acknowledged that the Church is spiritual Israel or the "new Israel". This is indicated in Paul’s writings: In Romans 9:6 he says that "not all who are of Israel are Israel." This indicates the existence of two Israels. One—"all who are of Israel"—indicates the ethnic people, not all of whom believe in Jesus. The other Israel, the context reveals, does not include those who have rejected the Messiah. This new Israel, founded by Messiah, exists in spiritual continuity with the Old Testament saints and so counts as a "spiritual Israel." It includes Gentiles who believe in the Messiah and so through baptism are spiritually circumcised (Col. 2:11–12) and are reckoned as spiritual Jews (Rom. 2:26–29).

In his letter to the Ephesians Paul is even more explicit about the Gentiles’ spiritual inclusion when he states that "you Gentiles in the flesh . . . were [once] separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel . . . But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near . . . So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints" (2:11–13, 19).
Not bad CC,
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Old 06-22-2009, 01:33 PM
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Default Re: Bad news for Israel ???

[quote=Daniel;41738]
Quote:

I think some may say that Israel was Gods chosen people and now the body of christ are Gods chosen. I think that would be a good comparison.

I cant see where one would say we are Israel unless that is what they meant-Gods chosen people. Otherwise they would be in error.
I feel in my spirit however that you are fishing around for something else with this post. I could be wrong.

God Bless
Hi Daniel , I am on many Christian forums , some believe that the Assembly ( church ) has relaced Israel .

At the Cross the Law was nailed to the Cross , but we still have to keep the 10 commandments .

Isreal is gone for good , that is not what Rom 11 , says .

Matt 3:10 , says that the AXE is already laid , and that Israel will be set aside .
,

Luke 13:6-9 also reveals that Israel , after Jesus earthly ministry , it will be set aside .

1 Cor 13:8-13 that the sign gifts will be terminated and set aside .

In Acts 28:28 , Israel was set aside and for 2000 years have passed and not until the " fulness of the Gentiles be come in " Rom 11:25 .

I am NOT fishing , but presenting God word as I see it .
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  #9  
Old 06-22-2009, 02:16 PM
Daniel
 
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Default Re: Bad news for Israel ???

[quote=danp;41935]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel View Post

Hi Daniel , I am on many Christian forums , some believe that the Assembly ( church ) has relaced Israel .

At the Cross the Law was nailed to the Cross , but we still have to keep the 10 commandments .

Isreal is gone for good , that is not what Rom 11 , says .

Matt 3:10 , says that the AXE is already laid , and that Israel will be set aside .
,

Luke 13:6-9 also reveals that Israel , after Jesus earthly ministry , it will be set aside .

1 Cor 13:8-13 that the sign gifts will be terminated and set aside .

In Acts 28:28 , Israel was set aside and for 2000 years have passed and not until the " fulness of the Gentiles be come in " Rom 11:25 .

I am NOT fishing , but presenting God word as I see it .
I would agree with what you are saying. Ecspecially 1 cor 13. I think the improper understanding of that chapter has caused much division to the body of Christ.
I do believe it is biblical to say God will again call his nation Israel to Him.
I have seen people who think we still need to keep the 10 commandments for salvation-mostly sda's. That would be errant. I have debated that before.

I think we agree on much friend
God Bless
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  #10  
Old 06-22-2009, 08:19 PM
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Default Re: Bad news for Israel ???

Interesting topic and one which has been debated for years... am sure not to be decided here The relationship between Israel and the Church, the Church and Israel.... deep issue....
If some will listen to what the Bible says I do not think they will be fooled by Replacement Theology which looms bright in most all out there - but indeed is not compatible with Scripture.

One thing though which I would like to toss out - is the church a fellow heir with the Jews in the Law/the Covenant? Or is the church the fellow heir with Christ as His body, buy passing the Law and coming directly to Him separate from Israel and the Law?

And while we are at it - Jesus Christ said that He didn't abolish the Law at all but that He fulfilled it (in other words all of the Law pointed to Him and He came...) - which might explain Him not mentioning the Sabbath as He didn't fulfill that but He will in the Millennial kingdom - that is what the Sabbath rest is all about for Israel.... but we must remember that the Sabbath pre-dates the Law by a couple thousand years Biblically.

Again as a Christian we come to Christ apart from the Law (we go around the law and we are in Christ and He is in us) and we become part of Him (His body) - I don't remember Israel ever being referred to as the Body of Christ, nor do I see God turning His back on something He has sworn to on His own name because there is none higher....

Interesting topic though....

In Christ
Windy
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