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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Sin nature of Christ

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  #1  
Old 06-19-2009, 08:49 AM
Daniel
 
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Default Sin nature of Christ

Hello everyone. I would like to open a discussion on the sin nature of Jesus Christ.


In the Hypostatic union theology we state that Jesus was God-Man. We look at this to say He was fully God and at the same time fully man. From this we derive that Jesus had mans sinful nature. I would like to discuss this view with the community.
We learn from scripture that Jesus was made into the likeness of man. We learn that Jesus emptied himself (the word used is kenoo-which is where the kenosis theory came from)

Phillipians
2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,

2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded , having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

2:4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.

2:5 * Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.



Now the kenosis theory has a few different variations.

1- Jesus gave up all his attributes
2- Jesus only gave up the attributes of omniscience-omnipresence-omnipotence
3- Jesus acted within the limitations of humanity and voluntarily did not exercise His attribute of omniscience.

There are others as well. Now the 1st 2 theory’s to me would say Jesus was not full deity and I believe that would be unbiblical.

The 3rd would be more in line with what I perceive to be the truth. What we can say is absolutely correct from these scriptures- Jesus was fully God at this time (2:6) and Jesus had emptied himself when He became a man (2:7).

From these 2 theory’s (hypostatic union & kenosis)we can have our proof that Jesus was fully God & fully man while on earth.

Now here is where I have a difference. Neither one of these theory’s explain the natures of Christ. We know He had his God nature and we know he had his man nature. But why do we believe this nature is a “sinful nature”?
I cannot believe that Jesus had mans sin nature. Jesus was able to have compassion for our sinfulness in being tempted. But nowhere in scripture does it say Jesus had sin nature.

I’ll explain my thoughts better.
In the lineage of Jesus (Adam to Christ) we see all people born would have been born from mans seed. All except Adam and Jesus. We know that Adam did not have sin nature. He was created perfect and remained perfect until the fall. With sin being passed down through the seed of man, this seed would not have effected Christ (hence the virgin birth). Christ was born of the virgin mary conceived by the Holy Spirit and not the corruptible seed of man.
I do not believe scripture teaches Christ had sin nature. I also do not believe scripture teaches that Jesus needed sin nature for our salvation.


Your thoughts?

Last edited by Daniel : 06-19-2009 at 04:03 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-19-2009, 04:54 PM
SeraphimH
 
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Default Re: Sin nature of Christ

On the Incarnation | Christian Classics Ethereal Library
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  #3  
Old 06-19-2009, 05:55 PM
CatholicCrusader
 
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Default Re: Sin nature of Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
Hello everyone. I would like to open a discussion on the sin nature of Jesus Christ.


In the Hypostatic union theology we state that Jesus was God-Man. We look at this to say He was fully God and at the same time fully man. From this we derive that Jesus had mans sinful nature........
Sorry bro' but I have to stop you right there.

Just because Jesus had two natures - human and divine - does not mean he had any sin.

Like I told you in the other thread:
Jesus received his divine nature from his Father (God).
Jesus received his human nature from his mother (Mary, who was also sinless.)
So Jesus has no "sin nature".

Now I know you will say that Mary was not sinless. BUT: You also said that "scripture says sin passes down through the seed of man" so that shouldn't matter.

Jesus was fully God and fully man, and totally sinless.

Last edited by CatholicCrusader : 06-20-2009 at 03:40 AM.
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  #4  
Old 06-19-2009, 06:19 PM
Daniel
 
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Default Re: Sin nature of Christ

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
Sorry bro' but I have to stop you right there.

Just because Jesus had two natures - human and divine - does not mean he had any sin.

Like I told you in the other thread:
Jesus received his divine nature from his Father (God).
Jesus received his human nature from his mother (Mary, who was also sinless.)
So Jesus has no "sin nature".

Now I know you will say that Mry was not sinless. BUT: You also said that "scripture says sin passes down through the seed of man" so that shouldn't matter.
well mary was born from the seed of man..but not the topic I would like to get into here. Most do believe however that jesus did possess mans sin nature and it was needed for our atonement. It is my understanding that catholics would agree with me on this point

Quote:
Jesus was fully God and fully man, and totally sinless.

On this we agree.that is good. Im happy for this
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  #5  
Old 06-19-2009, 06:21 PM
Daniel
 
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Default Re: Sin nature of Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeraphimH View Post
sir that is a book. perhaps you can summaries or just state why you agree or disagree in your own words.
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  #6  
Old 06-19-2009, 06:51 PM
christkid777's Avatar
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Default Re: Sin nature of Christ

This might get me in trouble but I always thought it was Christ truly human nature that made him able to be our faithful high priest.

Heb 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil
Heb 2:15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Heb 2:17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

As for Mary being sinless I have never gained anything from scripture to imply that.
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Old 06-19-2009, 06:59 PM
Daniel
 
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Default Re: Sin nature of Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by christkid777 View Post
This might get me in trouble but I always thought it was Christ truly human nature that made him able to be our faithful high priest.

Heb 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil
Heb 2:15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Heb 2:17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

As for Mary being sinless I have never gained anything from scripture to imply that.
excellent thoughts Christkid.

To me when I see that awesome scripture I see that because Jesus was tempted as we are tempted He can aid us better in His preisthood. he can identify with our sin. Now I dont think he had to have a sin nature for this. He did however as you said need to have human nature and be tempted.
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  #8  
Old 06-19-2009, 08:35 PM
SeraphimH
 
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Default Re: Sin nature of Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel View Post
sir that is a book. perhaps you can summaries or just state why you agree or disagree in your own words.
It's actually very short, and it summarizes everything from the fall to our redemption through Christ. It is definitely worth the read and it won't take you long. I can't possibly state it as well as this saint of God.
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  #9  
Old 06-19-2009, 09:09 PM
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Default Re: Sin nature of Christ

I dont know if the Lord had a sin nature, or not.
human nature sure he did,
I believe He was temped like we are today.
But why was He baptized?
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Trucking for Jesus! Love everybody, Dewayne
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  #10  
Old 06-19-2009, 09:12 PM
Daniel
 
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Default Re: Sin nature of Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewayne View Post
I dont know if the Lord had a sin nature, or not.
human nature sure he did,
I believe He was temped like we are today.
But why was He baptized?
I believe his baptism was an example to us.
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