[doinghiswill]

DYING WITH THE LORD

Let us now explain the matter of fact, faith, and experience in relation to our dying with the Lord. It is just as important for believers to know the matter of dying with the Lord as it is for sinners to know the matter of redemption.

Fact: When Christ died on the cross, not only did He die for the sinners, but the sinners died in Him as well. He not only died for sins, but He brought death to the sinners as well. It is a fact in God that the sinners have died with Jesus on the cross. The following Scriptures prove this:

One died for all, therefore all died (2 Cor. 5:14).

Knowing this, that our old man has been crucified with Him (Rom. 6:6).

We who have died to sin (Rom. 6:2).

After seeing these few verses, we can realize that in God's view the believers have been crucified with Christ on the cross already. When a believer is not aware of this fact, he will try to crucify himself day after day and will find that no matter how much he tries, he does not die. Little does he realize that we are dead in Christ already. We should not try to crucify ourselves; rather, we should apply His death by faith and reckon His death as our death. Baptism is the demonstration and acknowledgement of faith. It both demonstrates and acknowledges the fact. Romans 6:3 says, "Baptized into His death." "Baptism into His death" (v. 4) is the demonstration and acknowledgement of our application through faith of this death.

We are dead, we have been crucified with Him, and our death and our crucifixion with Him are facts, yet the Word of God goes on to charge us to "reckon [ourselves] to be dead to sin" (Rom. 6:11). Reckoning is an act of faith. We do not consider ourselves dead, because we cannot consider ourselves dead. We may try to consider ourselves dead day and night, but how can one actually consider himself dead? The more we consider in this way, the more we will realize that we are alive and that we are capable of and even prone to sinning. The only way is for us to "reckon" ourselves dead in Christ. Christ's death is our death. If we have this faith, we will have the experience of dying with the Lord. In the Bible, Paul is a good pattern of a person who had the experience of dying with the Lord. He said, "The cross...through whom the world has been crucified to me and I to the world" (Gal. 6:14). He also said, "To know...the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death" (Phil. 3:10). Again he said, "I am crucified with Christ" (Gal. 2:20). If a believer is to have the experience—the life experience—of dying with the Lord, he cannot do so by his own methods. He must take God's way, the way of fact, faith, and experience.

It is a fact that the believers have been crucified with Christ on the cross. Do you believe this fact? Are you willing to accept this fact and to reckon yourselves dead? If you believe, you will have the same experience of dying with the Lord that Paul had.

All of the teachings in the Bible concerning God's way of dealing with man follow the order of three things: fact, faith, and experience. All that God has done is perfect. The way He deals with the world is to accomplish all the works on behalf of the world, so that they will not need to use any human ways, but rather, receive and claim by faith alone. Since God deals with man in grace at present, He does not need any work from man (Rom. 4:4). The same principle applies to crucial doctrines such as "sanctification" and "victory."

[alphaomega3160]

[quote=doinghiswill;41315]DYING WITH THE LORD


Fact: When Christ died on the cross, not only did He die for the sinners, but the sinners died in Him as well. He not only died for sins, but He brought death to the sinners as well. It is a fact in God that the sinners have died with Jesus on the cross. The following Scriptures prove this:

One died for all, therefore all died (2 Cor. 5:14).

Knowing this, that our old man has been crucified with Him (Rom. 6:6).
you must be born a second time meaning you have to die what dies is the control of the flesh over the soul. notice before this takes place the spirit is not given. baptism ; is that symbolic act of dying . into the water to die !; coming out with a new life ; and that of the spirit

We who have died to sin (Rom. 6:2).

and the verses; cut off your hand (your flesh) pluck out your eye ( for it causes you to sin ) * the message hear is planly die to your ways the flesh counts for nothing ; so dont think good fleshly deeds count ;

We are dead, we have been crucified with Him, and our death and our crucifixion with Him are facts, yet the Word of God goes on to charge us to "reckon [ourselves] to be dead to sin" (Rom. 6:11). Reckoning is an act of faith. We do not consider ourselves dead, because we cannot consider ourselves dead. We may try to consider ourselves dead day and night, but how can one actually consider himself dead?
to concider to your self not dead ; can lead to your trying to do better; these can be deceptive ; for none are good; and perfection is required!
The more we consider in this way, the more we will realize that we are alive and that we are capable of and even prone to sinning.
that flesh -- will always sin

pick up your cross; is showing the true believer to be already dead in the fleshes control over the soul( yet ; as we know the old man ~flesh will always sin)

i hope this topic continues with others commenting on it as well

Fact: When Christ died on the cross, not only did He die for the sinners, but the sinners died in Him as well. He not only died for sins, but He brought death to the sinners as well. It is a fact in God that the sinners have died with Jesus on the cross. The following Scriptures prove this:

One died for all, therefore all died (2 Cor. 5:14).

Knowing this, that our old man has been crucified with Him (Rom. 6:6).

We who have died to sin (Rom. 6:2).

After seeing these few verses, we can realize that in God's view the believers have been crucified with Christ on the cross already. When a believer is not aware of this fact, he will try to crucify himself day after day and will find that no matter how much he tries, he does not die. Little does he realize that we are dead in Christ already. We should not try to crucify ourselves; rather, we should apply His death by faith and reckon His death as our death. Baptism is the demonstration and acknowledgement of faith. It both demonstrates and acknowledges the fact. Romans 6:3 says, "Baptized into His death." "Baptism into His death" (v. 4) is the demonstration and acknowledgement of our application through faith of this death.

We are dead, we have been crucified with Him, and our death and our crucifixion with Him are facts, yet the Word of God goes on to charge us to "reckon [ourselves] to be dead to sin" (Rom. 6:11). Reckoning is an act of faith. We do not consider ourselves dead, because we cannot consider ourselves dead. We may try to consider ourselves dead day and night, but how can one actually consider himself dead? The more we consider in this way, the more we will realize that we are alive and that we are capable of and even prone to sinning. The only way is for us to "reckon" ourselves dead in Christ. Christ's death is our death. If we have this faith, we will have the experience of dying with the Lord. In the Bible, Paul is a good pattern of a person who had the experience of dying with the Lord. He said, "The cross...through whom the world has been crucified to me and I to the world" (Gal. 6:14). He also said, "To know...the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death" (Phil. 3:10). Again he said, "I am crucified with Christ" (Gal. 2:20). If a believer is to have the experience—the life experience—of dying with the Lord, he cannot do so by his own methods. He must take God's way, the way of fact, faith, and experience.

It is a fact that the believers have been crucified with Christ on the cross. Do you believe this fact? Are you willing to accept this fact and to reckon yourselves dead? If you believe, you will have the same experience of dying with the Lord that Paul had.

All of the teachings in the Bible concerning God's way of dealing with man follow the order of three things: fact, faith, and experience. All that God has done is perfect. The way He deals with the world is to accomplish all the works on behalf of the world, so that they will not need to use any human ways, but rather, receive and claim by faith alone. Since God deals with man in grace at present, He does not need any work from man (Rom. 4:4). The same principle applies to crucial doctrines such as "sanctification" and "victory."

Amen to this bedrock truth.

always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. II Cor 4:10

As I understand, the beginning is the death, and the life also, a truth not to safely leave as focus as it should be understood, till God affirms it to you. It must be therefore understood till He does.

1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do, if God permits. Hebrews 6:1-3 NASB

[colin]

[quote=PRYZ;41329]

Amen to this bedrock truth.

always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. II Cor 4:10

As I understand, the beginning is the death, and the life also, a truth not to safely leave as focus as it should be understood, till God affirms it to you. It must be therefore understood till He does.

1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do, if God permits. Hebrews 6:1-3 NASB[/QUOTE

I think you two have handled this fine. Amen

Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. (II Cor:4:10)

I Loved this post, the word of it, very good! Good teaching.

I die daily...Amen? "Reckon ourselves"...yes!

Many situations arise in our life that present to us the choice of confronting them with the nature of the old man vs. the crucified nature. I just want to provide an example, in the form of a testimony....

Not so long ago a girl I went to Nursing school with over 12 years ago shows up employed where I have worked many years. I've run into her thorugh the years and always thought she was such a riot; funny person. As if out of nowhere she seems to hate me! And is showing it. Now she got her RN some years ago and I never did, and she asks me one day why I didn't. Well she has been being so nasty to me that I take the opportunity, knowing I shouldn't have....and I said, I'm working on BS in Psych right now. This Did Not help her hatred toward me!

Next thing I know she makes 3 distinct attempts to get me fired. One of them put me in the bosses office...an all out lie, that I did get out of.

I'm standing there one day "thinking,"...I have a choice: I can fight this battle, which I have no interest at all in doing, or the energy for it, and stand a good chance of losing since she is so passionate and energetic about this warfare, and also she's an RN which gives her more favor, or...

I can "surrender" to God's way, which will call for humility on my part. I "chose" right then and there God's way, and I believe with this choice God immediately made me able to start "seeing" her through his merciful eyes of love, and my thoughts of her changed!

I thought by God's heart, that maybe she's jealous, and you know what female jealosy can do!!! She's always had a complex about being over weight, and I am not at all....so maybe it's vehiment female jealosy...and I didn't help the situation by telling her I was working on a bigger degree than her.

I immediately changed by allowing God's Spirit, and now I "abased" myself always in her presence, and gave her respect for her RN position and spoke respectfully and very kindly to her, even when she was beeing snooty to me...

In only a matter of 2 days, I was ****n away when she approached me in the kindest manner and respectful too! Since that time this girl always speaks respectfully to me, "asks" me if I can do this or that, and has even warned me if she notices some little thing that might trun to trouble for me.

I literally stood there in awe at this! I stood there "knowing" what God had done! Now I tell you, I was naturally angry at first that this girl comes onto my long time job and starts basically lording over me! And for what? And trying to hang me; yes I was fit to fight at first, but ..

Chose humility instead and saw this marvelous outcome. "I die daily." And I remember Esther! Amen?

Originally Posted by preachergirl

Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. (II Cor:4:10)

I Loved this post, the word of it, very good! Good teaching.

I die daily...Amen? "Reckon ourselves"...yes!

Many situations arise in our life that present to us the choice of confronting them with the nature of the old man vs. the crucified nature. I just want to provide an example, in the form of a testimony....

Not so long ago a girl I went to Nursing school with over 12 years ago shows up employed where I have worked many years. I've run into her thorugh the years and always thought she was such a riot; funny person. As if out of nowhere she seems to hate me! And is showing it. Now she got her RN some years ago and I never did, and she asks me one day why I didn't. Well she has been being so nasty to me that I take the opportunity, knowing I shouldn't have....and I said, I'm working on BS in Psych right now. This Did Not help her hatred toward me!

Next thing I know she makes 3 distinct attempts to get me fired. One of them put me in the bosses office...an all out lie, that I did get out of.

I'm standing there one day "thinking,"...I have a choice: I can fight this battle, which I have no interest at all in doing, or the energy for it, and stand a good chance of losing since she is so passionate and energetic about this warfare, and also she's an RN which gives her more favor, or...

I can "surrender" to God's way, which will call for humility on my part. I "chose" right then and there God's way, and I believe with this choice God immediately made me able to start "seeing" her through his merciful eyes of love, and my thoughts of her changed!

I thought by God's heart, that maybe she's jealous, and you know what female jealosy can do!!! She's always had a complex about being over weight, and I am not at all....so maybe it's vehiment female jealosy...and I didn't help the situation by telling her I was working on a bigger degree than her.

I immediately changed by allowing God's Spirit, and now I "abased" myself always in her presence, and gave her respect for her RN position and spoke respectfully and very kindly to her, even when she was beeing snooty to me...

In only a matter of 2 days, I was ****n away when she approached me in the kindest manner and respectful too! Since that time this girl always speaks respectfully to me, "asks" me if I can do this or that, and has even warned me if she notices some little thing that might trun to trouble for me.

I literally stood there in awe at this! I stood there "knowing" what God had done! Now I tell you, I was naturally angry at first that this girl comes onto my long time job and starts basically lording over me! And for what? And trying to hang me; yes I was fit to fight at first, but ..

Chose humility instead and saw this marvelous outcome. "I die daily." And I remember Esther! Amen?

Powerful account you gave there Preachergirl! The fact that you chose to be light had tremendous results. An experience to inspire. It did me.Glory! Thank you Lord!