Already a member? login
Register FAQ A-Z directory Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > is isaiah 14 the fall of satan?

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-17-2009, 04:50 PM
ryhm's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 13
Default is isaiah 14 the fall of satan?

when i look up lucifer it means leader (daystar) also when im reading this chapter it ties up so much with dan 4. as dan 4 is talking about king neb the king of babylon. when it says lucifer is the king of babylon then how is is in heaven and the king of babylon if this is suppose to be in the beginning? as it is talking about heaven it is talking about a heavenly place. 3 heavens. first heaven is earth. second heaven is the holy spirit. 3rd heaven is where God is. in verse 9 of isaiah 14 it says hell here. which is sheol (the grave) and in verse 11 it actually does say the grave. and as i am reading on down the people are looking at him saying "is this the man" now im stopping right here. if the devil is suppose to be in hell how are these people looking at him? and why did they call him a man if he is suppose to be an angel? when i read this it all goes with dan 4. please study this chapter and if you have any questions just ask me.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2011, 05:54 AM
Mark51's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 195
Default Re: is isaiah 14 the fall of satan?

Dear Ryhm,

I once interpreted Isaiah 14:12, similarly, when I first read this passage. However, with repeated careful readings of Isaiah chapter 13 through 14:27, it is clearly not talking about or referring to Satan. Compare Daniel 4:20-23.

The name “Lucifer” occurs once in the Scriptures and only in some versions of the Bible. Lucifer is a translation of the Hebrew word heh·lel′, “shining one.” The Septuagint uses the Greek word that means “bringer of dawn.” Hence, some translations render the original Hebrew “morning star” or “Daystar.” But Jerome’s Latin Vulgate uses “Lucifer” (light bearer), and this accounts for the appearance of that term in various versions of the Bible.

Heh·lel′, as here used, is not a personal name or a title, but, rather, a term describing the brilliant position taken by Babylon’s dynasty of kings in the line of Nebuchadnezzar who, by reason of his many conquests, especially that of the nation of Judah in 607 B.C., became world ruler and therefore like the bringer of dawn, the morning star Venus, which is the brightest of all celestial bodies aside from the sun and moon. This is why such an eminent description is given to the Babylonian dynasty.

We must realize that the king of Babylon was to be called the shining one only after his fall and in a taunting way. (Isaiah 14:3) Selfish pride prompted Babylon’s kings to elevate themselves above those around them. So great was the arrogance of the dynasty that it is portrayed as bragging.-Isaiah 14:13,*14.

Therefore the expression “shining one,” or “Lucifer,” as found in what Isaiah prophetically commanded the Israelites to pronounce as a “proverbial saying against the king of Babylon.” This prophecy is really a taunt song, as noted by Rotherham’s translation of verse four: “Thou shalt take up this taunt over the king of Babylon.” It is directed against one who exalted himself very highly and who is being taunted on his downfall. Thus, it is part of a saying primarily directed at the Babylonian dynasty. That the description “shining one” is given to a man and not to a spirit creature is further seen by the statement: “Down to Sheol you will be brought.” Sheol is the common grave of mankind-not a place occupied by Satan the Devil. Moreover, those seeing Lucifer brought into this condition ask: “Is this the man that was agitating the earth?” Clearly, “Lucifer” refers to a human, not to a spirit creature.-Isaiah 14:4, 15, 16.

Furthermore, stars are used in the Bible in a figurative sense and in metaphors or similes to represent persons, as in Joseph’s dream in which his parents were represented by the sun and moon, and his 11 brothers by 11 stars. (Genesis 37:9,*10) Job 38:7 parallels “the morning stars” that joyfully cried out at earth’s founding with the angelic “sons of God.” The resurrected and exalted Jesus spoke of himself as “the bright morning star” and promised to give “the morning star” to his conquering followers, evidently indicating a sharing with him in his heavenly position and glory. (Revelation 22:16; 2:26,*28; compare 2 Timothy 2:12; Revelation 20:6.) The seven “angels” of the congregations, to whom written messages are delivered, are symbolized by seven stars in the right hand of Christ. (Revelation 1:16,*20; 2:1; 3:1) “The angel of the abyss” called Abaddon is also represented by a star.-Revelation 9:1,*11.

“The stars of God” are the kings of the royal line of David. (Numbers*24:17) From David onward, these “stars” ruled from Mount Zion. After Solomon built the temple in Jerusalem, the name Zion came to apply to the whole city. Under the Law covenant, all male Israelites were obliged to travel to Zion three times a year. Thus, it became “the mountain of meeting.” By determining to subjugate the Judean kings and then remove them from that mountain, Nebuchadnezzar is declaring his intention to put himself above those “stars.” Instead of giving Jehovah credit for the victory over them, he arrogantly puts himself in Jehovah’s place. So it is after being cut down to the earth that the Babylonian dynasty is mockingly referred to as the “shining one.”

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2011, 01:42 PM
Posts: n/a
Default Re: is isaiah 14 the fall of satan?

Basic principle for studying any allegory: There is never a complete one-to-one correspondence between the allegory and the reality, and all attempts to achieve complete correspondence always lead to ridiculous results. Isaiah 14 refers to the king of Babylon, still it is concurrently an allegory of Satan. The extent of the allegory is open to interpretation but it is a mistake to overall discard it, although a minor one.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The future in Isaiah Joshua888 Bible Chat 0 05-26-2009 11:16 AM
Watching satan fall serenity Bible Chat 5 04-16-2009 11:58 PM
The Fall colin Theology 2 03-25-2009 11:14 PM
Revelation From The Holy Ghost (Isaiah 14:24) PentecostalEvangelist Testimonials 1 03-25-2009 05:48 AM
The Fall of Man thlax9 Bible Chat 458 01-18-2009 02:44 PM

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:00 PM.



You need to upgrade your Flash Player.

Version 8 or higher is required.

download from

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29