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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Where did the Church begin ?

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  #1  
Old 06-15-2009, 06:25 PM
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Default Where did the Church begin ?

Hi to all , and many begin the Church in Acts 2 , or Pentecost .

1) This is where the RCC begins the EKKLESIA , which does not means Church .

2) The Greek word EKKLESIA , means Assembly or Congregation , and let's please remember that only the Original Autographs are Inspired and NOT Translations .

3) Many see the Translation Church and anywhere they see that word ,it will always have the same meaning .

4) Covenant Theology and Acts 2 , dispensationalists , say that the Body of Christ ( they call it it the Church ) began ,

5) #1 , in Genesis
6) # 2 , began at Acts 2 , or Pentecost
7) #3 , began at Acts 9 , with the salvation of Paul
8) #4 , began at Acts 11 , one guy in Flordia , that I know
9) # 5 , that it began with Paul first missionary trip , Acts 13:1-3
10) #6 , that it began in Acts 28 , and are called Ultra or Hyper - dispensationalists .
11) #7 , and some say that it began in Eph.


12) Here is where I say it began , in Rom 1:1 .

13) Paul , a slave of Christ Jesus , a called apostle , having been separated for God's gospel ,

14) The Greek word APHORIZO , which is translated separated , can also be translated , by the words Boundries, and Limited .

15) That means that Paul was LIMITED to only preach the Gospel of God and this Greek word is in the Greek Perfect Tense and the boundries are the Gospel of the Grace of God .

16) The perfect Tense , means Past Action in time past and is in Present time , with Contiuing Results .

17) It is in the Greek Passive Voice , and means that it was and outside agent that did it to Paul .

18) And it was in the Greek Indicative Mood and what happen to Paul is a FACT .

19) That means that the Body of Christ began in Acts 9:3-16 .

20) Here begins a New Dispensation of the Grace of God 1 Cor 9:17 .
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Old 06-16-2009, 05:53 AM
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Default Re: Where did the Church begin ?

Perhaps we need to look a little earlier than the letters to or history written about the churches. I would suggest that Jesus was starting His church when He called the first disciples.


Matthew 4:18-22 "As he walked by the Sea of Galilee, how saw two brothers, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea - for they were fishermen. And he said to them, 'Follow me, and I will make you fish for people.' Immediately they left their nets and followed him. As he went from there, he saw two other brothers, James son of Zebedee and his brother John, in the boat with their father Zebedee, mending their nets, and he called them. Immediately they left the boat and their father, and followed him."

May God bless your studies of His word. Peggy
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Old 06-16-2009, 06:19 AM
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Default Re: Where did the Church begin ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by danp View Post
.....This is where the RCC begins the EKKLESIA , which does not means Church.......

......The Greek word EKKLESIA , means Assembly or Congregation......
That description is too simplistic. Here is a quote from the Catechism Of The Catholic Church (Sections 751-757)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


I. NAMES AND IMAGES OF THE CHURCH

751 The word "Church" (Latin ecclesia, from the Greek ek-ka-lein, to "call out of") means a convocation or an assembly. It designates the assemblies of the people, usually for a religious purpose.139 Ekklesia is used frequently in the Greek Old Testament for the assembly of the Chosen People before God, above all for their assembly on Mount Sinai where Israel received the Law and was established by God as his holy people.140 By calling itself "Church," the first community of Christian believers recognized itself as heir to that assembly. In the Church, God is "calling together" his people from all the ends of the earth. The equivalent Greek term Kyriake, from which the English word Church and the German Kirche are derived, means "what belongs to the Lord."

752 In Christian usage, the word "church" designates the liturgical assembly,141 but also the local community142 or the whole universal community of believers.143 These three meanings are inseparable. "The Church" is the People that God gathers in the whole world. She exists in local communities and is made real as a liturgical, above all a Eucharistic, assembly. She draws her life from the word and the Body of Christ and so herself becomes Christ's Body.

Symbols of the Church

753 In Scripture, we find a host of interrelated images and figures through which Revelation speaks of the inexhaustible mystery of the Church. The images taken from the Old Testament are variations on a profound theme: the People of God. In the New Testament, all these images find a new center because Christ has become the head of this people, which henceforth is his Body.144 Around this center are grouped images taken "from the life of the shepherd or from cultivation of the land, from the art of building or from family life and marriage."145

754 "The Church is, accordingly, a sheepfold, the sole and necessary gateway to which is Christ. It is also the flock of which God himself foretold that he would be the shepherd, and whose sheep, even though governed by human shepherds, are unfailingly nourished and led by Christ himself, the Good Shepherd and Prince of Shepherds, who gave his life for his sheep.146

755 "The Church is a cultivated field, the tillage of God. On that land the ancient olive tree grows whose holy roots were the prophets and in which the reconciliation of Jews and Gentiles has been brought about and will be brought about again. That land, like a choice vineyard, has been planted by the heavenly cultivator. Yet the true vine is Christ who gives life and fruitfulness to the branches, that is, to us, who through the Church remain in Christ, without whom we can do nothing.147

756 "Often, too, the Church is called the building of God. The Lord compared himself to the stone which the builders rejected, but which was made into the corner-stone. On this foundation the Church is built by the apostles and from it the Church receives solidity and unity. This edifice has many names to describe it: the house of God in which his family dwells; the household of God in the Spirit; the dwelling-place of God among men; and, especially, the holy temple. This temple, symbolized in places of worship built out of stone, is praised by the Fathers and, not without reason, is compared in the liturgy to the Holy City, the New Jerusalem. As living stones we here on earth are built into it. It is this holy city that is seen by John as it comes down out of heaven from God when the world is made anew, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband.148

757 "The Church, further, which is called 'that Jerusalem which is above' and 'our mother', is described as the spotless spouse of the spotless lamb. It is she whom Christ 'loved and for whom he delivered himself up that he might sanctify her.' It is she whom he unites to himself by an unbreakable alliance, and whom he constantly 'nourishes and cherishes.'"149


SOURCE LINK

References:

139 Cf. Acts 19:39.
140 Cf. Ex 19.
141 Cf. 1 Cor 11:18; 14:19,28,34,35.
142 Cf. 1 Cor 1:2; 16:1.
143 Cf. 1 Cor 15:9; Gal 1:13; Phil 3:6.
144 Cf. Eph 1:22; Col 1:18; LG 9.
145 LG 6.
146 LG 6; cf. Jn 10:1-10; Isa 40:11; Ezek 34:11-31; Jn 10:11; 1 Pet 5:4; Jn 10:11-16.
147 LG 6; cf. 1 Cor 39; Rom 11:13-26; Mt 21:32-43 and parallels; Isa 51-7; Jn 15:1-5.
148 LG 6; Cf. 1 Cor 3:9; Mt 21:42 and parallels; Acts 4:11; 1 Pet 2:7; Ps 118:22; 1 Cor 3:11; 1 Tim 3:15; Eph 2:19-22; Rev 21:3; 1 Pet 2:5; Rev 21:1-2.
149 LG 6; Cf. Gal 4:26; Rev 12:17; 19:7; 21:2,9; 22:17; Eph 5:25-26,29.

Last edited by CatholicCrusader : 06-16-2009 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 06-16-2009, 09:05 AM
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Default Re: Where did the Church begin ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by danp View Post
12) Here is where I say it began , in Rom 1:1 .

13) Paul , a slave of Christ Jesus , a called apostle , having been separated for God's gospel ,

14) The Greek word APHORIZO , which is translated separated , can also be translated , by the words Boundries, and Limited .

15) That means that Paul was LIMITED to only preach the Gospel of God and this Greek word is in the Greek Perfect Tense and the boundries are the Gospel of the Grace of God .

16) The perfect Tense , means Past Action in time past and is in Present time , with Contiuing Results .

17) It is in the Greek Passive Voice , and means that it was and outside agent that did it to Paul .

18) And it was in the Greek Indicative Mood and what happen to Paul is a FACT .

19) That means that the Body of Christ began in Acts 9:3-16 .

20) Here begins a New Dispensation of the Grace of God 1 Cor 9:17 .
You seem to have made a mighty big leap from step 18 to step 19 (leaving aside the dubious logic in the previous steps). It doesn't follow at all.

Are you into dispensationalism and the two gospels theory?
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Last edited by winsome : 06-16-2009 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 06-16-2009, 02:04 PM
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Default Re: Where did the Church begin ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by winsome View Post
You seem to have made a mighty big leap from step 18 to step 19 (leaving aside the dubious logic in the previous steps). It doesn't follow at all.

Are you into dispensationalism and the two gospels theory?
Hi winsome , why not start a tread on what you say is Theory ??? Or I can .
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Old 06-16-2009, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Where did the Church begin ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotFinishedYet View Post
Perhaps we need to look a little earlier than the letters to or history written about the churches. I would suggest that Jesus was starting His church when He called the first disciples.




May God bless your studies of His word. Peggy
Jesus Chooses the Twelve Apostles

12 One day soon afterward Jesus went up on a mountain to pray, and he prayed to God all night. 13 At daybreak he called together all of his disciples and chose twelve of them to be apostles. Here are their names:
14 Simon (whom he named Peter),
Andrew (Peter’s brother),
James,
John,
Philip,
Bartholomew,
15 Matthew,
Thomas,
James (son of Alphaeus),
Simon (who was called the zealot),
16 Judas (son of James),
Judas Iscariot (who later betrayed him).
I was studying the other day about my faith I believe, and they stated that this is when Jesus started His church. Dont know about this, and dont know if this what you ment, but what you said brought my mind to this scripture.....Dewayne
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Old 06-17-2009, 05:55 AM
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Default Re: Where did the Church begin ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewayne View Post
Jesus Chooses the Twelve Apostles

12 One day soon afterward Jesus went up on a mountain to pray, and he prayed to God all night. 13 At daybreak he called together all of his disciples and chose twelve of them to be apostles. Here are their names:
14 Simon (whom he named Peter),
Andrew (Peter’s brother),
James,
John,
Philip,
Bartholomew,
15 Matthew,
Thomas,
James (son of Alphaeus),
Simon (who was called the zealot),
16 Judas (son of James),
Judas Iscariot (who later betrayed him).
I was studying the other day about my faith I believe, and they stated that this is when Jesus started His church. Dont know about this, and dont know if this what you ment, but what you said brought my mind to this scripture.....Dewayne
Thanks, Dewayne! Yeah, that's exactly what I was trying to say. Jesus started his church as he gathered his disciples and began teaching them. The works of the disciples recorded later in scripture are a continuation of this work, but Christ himself started the church and was it's first "preacher". Now, that's a minister to sit under!!!!! Be blessed: Peggy
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Old 06-17-2009, 07:56 AM
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Default Re: Where did the Church begin ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotFinishedYet View Post
Thanks, Dewayne! Yeah, that's exactly what I was trying to say. Jesus started his church as he gathered his disciples and began teaching them. The works of the disciples recorded later in scripture are a continuation of this work, but Christ himself started the church and was it's first "preacher". Now, that's a minister to sit under!!!!! Be blessed: Peggy
You are wondering when one called 'Jesus of Nazareth' began His 'church'? Keep it simple. John 1:1 :In the begining was 'thee Word' (as in the beginning of this wod); the beginning of thee true 'church' (By the way, I did the copy/paste thing and kept your last blog about Adam and Eve for future inspiration, even if I drop this internet thing). Jesus Himself says: "Before Abraham, I am." That alone should tell you that thee 'church' started a looooonnnng time ago. And concerning Melchizidek who was 'of the time of Abraham' and Jesus being 'before the time of Abraham', if you look beyond the 'bodies' they dwelled in (the one Jesus used after His ressurection) , then you can clearly see who was made in who's 'image' (just one example as to why He is acknowledged as thee Creator Son).

Last edited by Josif59 : 06-17-2009 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 06-17-2009, 09:01 AM
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Default Re: Where did the Church begin ?

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Originally Posted by Josif59 View Post
You are wondering when one called 'Jesus of Nazareth' began His 'church'? Keep it simple. John 1:1 :In the begining was 'thee Word' (as in the beginning of this wod); the beginning of thee true 'church' (By the way, I did the copy/paste thing and kept your last blog about Adam and Eve for future inspiration, even if I drop this internet thing). Jesus Himself says: "Before Abraham, I am." That alone should tell you that thee 'church' started a looooonnnng time ago. And concerning Melchizidek who was 'of the time of Abraham' and Jesus being 'before the time of Abraham', if you look beyond the 'bodies' they dwelled in (the one Jesus used after His ressurection) , then you can clearly see who was made in who's 'image' (just one example as to why He is acknowledged as thee Creator Son).

So true, so true. I was limited in my scope and answer. Just as many don't understand that salvation started the moment God thought of us, we forget that all of creation from His first thought was about building our fellowship with Him. Thank you for that reminder.

Oh, and stop that "drop this internet thing": I will hunt you down, you dog, now that you're in my evil web!!
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Why are we here, what's life all about? Is God really real, or is there some doubt? Well tonight we're going to sort it all out: For tonight it's the meaning of life" Not Finished Yet
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Old 06-17-2009, 11:11 AM
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Default Re: Where did the Church begin ?

IMHO without a long diatribe on my part - sorry to say I do get long winded on these issues. The church started with the Lamb slain at before the foundations of the of creation. However the indwelling of the Holy Spirit seems to be a pivot point. Apart from what some believe that did not happen at Pentecost however. The first time the Holy Spirit was given as the comforter is recorded after the resurrection when Christ breathed Him into His followers and told them to receive the Holy Spirit. Originally God breathed life into man, here God breathed new life into man.

You might say the physical church didn't really begin until Paul as a missionary planted churches, the reasoning to this would be that while the church was a Jewish thing it was tied to the Jewish religion and Temple. However you can't discount the Lamb slain from the foundations of the world, which means that the church (spiritural not physical) would have begun from God's point of view from that time on. Any other divisions might well be very valid as a sub set under that understanding. We need to work this out withing Scripture and not withing Dogmatic belief systems of men however -God knew about and had everything planned before He created, but it is also true that some of what was to be had to wait till Jesus said His work was finished. Jesus used future tense when talking about building the church which must have Christ's death, burial and resurrection as the foundation - that is indeed what the NT preaches.

In Christ
Windy
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