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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > What is Essential?

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  #1  
Old 06-04-2009, 12:21 PM
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Default What is Essential?

Last year another brother and myself were invited to the home of a man who was having weekly Bible studies in his home. He played the guitar and sang, and all of us testified and/or discussed scripture. At the end of the second meeting, when everyone had gone home except the host, myself and the other brother, the host mentioned that there were certain "essentials" that everyone in God's Church need to have or to believe in order to be a Christian.

I asked him what he considered to be essentials. He listed several things which I do not recall now, but the one that struck me personally was the need to support the trinity. I have not been a trinitarian per se since I stopped considering myself a Catholic in 1976, so to keep things open and honest, I mentioned to him that while I was not against the trinity, I did doubt it based on my own walk and my own Bible studies. We spoke about it for a few more minutes, but as it was getting late, we opted to leave the discussion until another time and we went home.

A couple of days before the next Bible study night, the host called me and politely told me that me and my brother were no longer welcome at his studies, because of our expressed doubt about the trinity. He said he was afraid that our error would adversely affect the other persons attending his meetings.

We, most of us or all of us live by faith in some measure. If our faith does not include beliefs in certain essentials, should we go our separate ways and find a church or denomination where we will all agree on the essentials?

What is essential to you and at what point would you or should you do to anyone what was done to us?
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Old 06-04-2009, 12:38 PM
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Default Re: What is Essential?

Well, personally my knowledge of the trinity is very limited and honestly I just dont feel its that important to the Lord that I know of or he would have had the Spirit lean me in the direction of learning more about it. It also doesnt affect our salvation or living the full christian life, so its importance should be VERY low on the totem pole of whats important to our faith. I try hard to keep the "bar" as low as possible to include as many others as possible. I assume this person only wants those moldable into thier ideal of what a christian should be, otherwise they fear you because you are sure of your faith enough to question it and possible turn other moldable people away from thier own teaching. Its sad, but I have seen lots of this type of behavior in my life. Dont be sad John, we still love you here just as you are.


-Brad
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:04 PM
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Default Re: What is Essential?

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Originally Posted by Soulheart3 View Post
Well, personally my knowledge of the trinity is very limited and honestly I just dont feel its that important to the Lord that I know of or he would have had the Spirit lean me in the direction of learning more about it. It also doesnt affect our salvation or living the full christian life, so its importance should be VERY low on the totem pole of whats important to our faith. I try hard to keep the "bar" as low as possible to include as many others as possible. I assume this person only wants those moldable into thier ideal of what a christian should be, otherwise they fear you because you are sure of your faith enough to question it and possible turn other moldable people away from thier own teaching. Its sad, but I have seen lots of this type of behavior in my life. Dont be sad John, we still love you here just as you are.


-Brad
Thank you Brad! I am not sad in way that you mean. My sadness is that people believe that they cannot be wrong even on essentials or perhaps worse, they do not care enough to be bothered with anyone who is unwilling to simply fall into line without any questions at all. Jesus said,

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:" Matt 7:7

John,
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Old 06-04-2009, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: What is Essential?


John , I joined United Pentecostal Church before , but I am back to being Trinitarian, but personally as long as we believe in the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, whether they exist in three Persons or one Person, I believe God will accept that. What I don't believe is name calling, I heard and remember some names labeled on trinitatrian and vice versa. My neighbor belongs to UPC and I get along with him well.

There are many things we don't exactly know like eschatology, but God I believe will judge us not on what we know, but on what we do and on what is on our hearts and whether we have Jesus in our heart and whether the blood of Christ has cleansed us.
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  #5  
Old 06-04-2009, 02:26 PM
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Default Re: What is Essential?

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Originally Posted by ElpidioLGagolinan View Post
John , I joined United Pentecostal Church before , but I am back to being Trinitarian, but personally as long as we believe in the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, whether they exist in three Persons or one Person, I believe God will accept that. What I don't believe is name calling, I heard and remember some names labeled on trinitatrian and vice versa. My neighbor belongs to UPC and I get along with him well.

There are many things we don't exactly know like eschatology, but God I believe will judge us not on what we know, but on what we do and on what is on our hearts and whether we have Jesus in our heart and whether the blood of Christ has cleansed us.
Thank you for your kind words Elpidio.
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: What is Essential?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
Last year another brother and myself were invited to the home of a man who was having weekly Bible studies in his home. He played the guitar and sang, and all of us testified and/or discussed scripture. At the end of the second meeting, when everyone had gone home except the host, myself and the other brother, the host mentioned that there were certain "essentials" that everyone in God's Church need to have or to believe in order to be a Christian.

I asked him what he considered to be essentials. He listed several things which I do not recall now, but the one that struck me personally was the need to support the trinity. I have not been a trinitarian per se since I stopped considering myself a Catholic in 1976, so to keep things open and honest, I mentioned to him that while I was not against the trinity, I did doubt it based on my own walk and my own Bible studies. We spoke about it for a few more minutes, but as it was getting late, we opted to leave the discussion until another time and we went home.

A couple of days before the next Bible study night, the host called me and politely told me that me and my brother were no longer welcome at his studies, because of our expressed doubt about the trinity. He said he was afraid that our error would adversely affect the other persons attending his meetings.

We, most of us or all of us live by faith in some measure. If our faith does not include beliefs in certain essentials, should we go our separate ways and find a church or denomination where we will all agree on the essentials?

What is essential to you and at what point would you or should you do to anyone what was done to us?
Amadeus, if I may ask, what part of the Trinity do you doubt? Not sure why they ended the coversation with you. Maybe we can pick it up here with people who are not so quick to cut off the conversation.
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:32 PM
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Default Re: What is Essential?

I really did not intend or desire to discuss the trinity itself. In both responses thus far the replies have homed in on that particular doctrine. I gave that only as an example.

What I am really looking for is what does anyone consider to be essential, if anything, in order to be a follower of Christ, a follower of God, a brother or sister in the Lord, etc.

Examples might be water baptism, baptism of the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues, repentance, participation in bread and wine communion, foot washing, etc.
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Old 06-04-2009, 02:37 PM
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Default Re: What is Essential?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
I really did not intend or desire to discuss the trinity itself. In both responses thus far the replies have homed in on that particular doctrine. I gave that only as an example.

What I am really looking for is what does anyone consider to be essential, if anything, in order to be a follower of Christ, a follower of God, a brother or sister in the Lord, etc.

Examples might be water baptism, baptism of the Holy Ghost, speaking in tongues, repentance, participation in bread and wine communion, foot washing, etc.
Well, I would consider the Trinity to be essential to be a Christian, as I would the Incarnation, which is why I brought it up. If you don't want to talk about it, I will gladly withdraw from the conversation.
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Old 06-04-2009, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: What is Essential?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
Last year another brother and myself were invited to the home of a man who was having weekly Bible studies in his home. He played the guitar and sang, and all of us testified and/or discussed scripture. At the end of the second meeting, when everyone had gone home except the host, myself and the other brother, the host mentioned that there were certain "essentials" that everyone in God's Church need to have or to believe in order to be a Christian.

I asked him what he considered to be essentials. He listed several things which I do not recall now, but the one that struck me personally was the need to support the trinity. I have not been a trinitarian per se since I stopped considering myself a Catholic in 1976, so to keep things open and honest, I mentioned to him that while I was not against the trinity, I did doubt it based on my own walk and my own Bible studies. We spoke about it for a few more minutes, but as it was getting late, we opted to leave the discussion until another time and we went home.

A couple of days before the next Bible study night, the host called me and politely told me that me and my brother were no longer welcome at his studies, because of our expressed doubt about the trinity. He said he was afraid that our error would adversely affect the other persons attending his meetings.

We, most of us or all of us live by faith in some measure. If our faith does not include beliefs in certain essentials, should we go our separate ways and find a church or denomination where we will all agree on the essentials?

What is essential to you and at what point would you or should you do to anyone what was done to us?
I use to have a long list of "essentials" as to what made me a Christian... I've never been too good on judging someone else's walk. But now, I have very little that I point to as essential in defining me as Christian. I say God is, Christ is, the Spirit is. I have no idea in regards to all those lovely teachings on the isms, wafer or bread, wine or grape juice, communion all the time or rarely, immerse, sprinkle, or baptize at all, tongues, tithe, .... none "essential" to me now. Faith, hope, love: essential. Asking someone to leave a study, church, fellowship, prayer circle because we hold different things as "essential", no. IMO, all are welcome to God's presence and the Spirit will reveal to us in His time the various truths that will define His followers.
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Last edited by NotFinishedYet : 06-04-2009 at 05:29 PM.
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  #10  
Old 06-04-2009, 05:37 PM
Daniel
 
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Default Re: What is Essential?

I wonder what someone would think about the trinity or other issues in the bible if they never heard a sermon or were never taught in a denominationally bias bible study.

I am a trinitarian but i would not kick you out of a bible study for disagreeing with me. I would use it as an oppurtunity to discuss my views.

Either way, if they kicked you out its apparent they are more comfortable in their little box then expanding the kingdom.
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