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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Who is God?

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  #1  
Old 06-04-2009, 06:52 AM
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Default Who is God?

I sit here this morning looking at the current threads and I'm struck by the seeming theme of our discussions. We talk about Satan and Hell, we talk about churches, the Church, and the Pope, we talk about life and death, we talk about doctrines and dogmas. We talk about worldly things, we talk about our walks.... you do see anything here that we don't talk about? Why is it that we don't talk about God?

I'm reading right now (TY MMari) another book on EO beliefs and what continues to strike me over and over again as it has for 2 years now, how little we comprehend about the deity we claim to live for. I am finding as I draw closer and closer to Him, that I have absolutely no understanding of Him. Each new thought wipes out an old one and while I move out of my spiritual darkness into the light of knowledge, my image of God darkens deeper and deeper as I realize more and more that I can't really know Him. Do not read this as a loss of faith, no it's the opposite; it's believing more and more. It simply means that the closer I walk with Him the less able I am to define Him. He becomes more unknowable to me by the day because my human mind cannot comprehend such a spiritual being.

So, I come to you here to discuss Him. Who is He to you? What is His nature, what are His attributes, how do you see Him? What aspect of Him would you like to understand better? Is there duality in your mind about Him that you don't understand (all loving yet vengeful)?

Anyone out there wanna just talk about Him?
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Why are we here, what's life all about? Is God really real, or is there some doubt? Well tonight we're going to sort it all out: For tonight it's the meaning of life" Not Finished Yet
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  #2  
Old 06-04-2009, 07:50 AM
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Default Re: Who is God?

There is such a thing called the fulness of God. Those who receive know God and His Son.

And, the new covenant promises the knowledge of God such that there is no need for a brother to teach a brother about the knowledge of God.

Knowing God is by the gift of Himself from Heaven.

All things (the economy) of God can be known. Indeed, they are countable and the basis of God's numbering system. The scriptures say we can know them. For example, those who have His unction know all things.

However, the riches that all things of God bring about are unsearchable. For example, the grace of God is a gift of God that is knowable. But, the riches of grace are unsearchable by reason of multitude.

Now, God is the ultimate living, powerful and deep penetrating eternal Diety by whom are all things.



---
Grace and peace from God and His Christ unto all!

Last edited by CI : 06-04-2009 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 06-04-2009, 08:48 AM
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Default Re: Who is God?

There seem to me to be as many Gods as there are those who believe in Him. From Michaelangelo's version of the white haired Sunday school God to Einstein's version who didn't like playing dice. From the one in the muddy foxhole to the one in the beauty of the night sky or a spectacular dawn. From the one who talks to you personally to comfort you to the one that tells others to kill.

He's the same one you share with Muslims. He's the one that will take your child but promise you everlasting life. He's indifferent, capricious, loving, ever present but nowhere to be found. He'll leave clues to His presence to those who want to believe, but none to those who don't.

He made the world in 6 days, four and half billion years ago and caused evolution to produce Adam and Eve. He also created worlds that we'll never see, that have ceased to exist and that served no purpose.

Did He have a choice in making us? Are we the result of divine boredom? Are we only here to praise Him? What is His purpose in me sitting here? Did He want evolution to reach a point where we could appreciate His part in our existence? I don't get the 'why'.

I really don't get why He made the whole place so complicated. There are wheels within wheels and ever increasing degrees of complication the harder we look. How come He couldn't make it straightforward and easy to understand? If He makes the rules, then surely it couldn't be that hard.

And I really don't get why He made it take 14.5 billion years before He thought it might be a good idea to check in on us. What was the purpose of all that time? And the complete universe literally a waste of space as far as we're concerned. Why did He made a rock on some small planet on the outer reaches of everything back so far in time that it now doesn't exist? Why all that effort?

Some people seem to stick with the Sunday school version, the God that's on 'our side'. The one in the church, the one who's blood you drink. The one who's boy was wrapped in swaddling clothes and could turn water into wine.

I thought thought that an increase in knowledge would lead to a decrease in belief. Science will prevail! But maybe for some it concentrates that belief.

(Apologises to Peg, stomps around the porch, kicks the cat and spills his beer in the process).

Last edited by Brad : 06-04-2009 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:09 AM
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well personally calling God a deity I believe is very disrespectful. He is our sovereign creator. But, I digress, Christ said that if you were to look upon His face, you would've seen Him that had sent Him. Also, Christ was the spirit to flesh conception of God's nature. God is Love. Thats how he is, thats who he is. Yes, it does say in the Word that God causes calamity. But, His will shouldn't be questioned simply because he placed you on earth to witness just how fierce his Love is. Just how powerful he is.

Matthew 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much better than they?

He does all that he does with Love. The unfathomable part about it is that we could never understand that strong a love for something as flawed and fallible as we. Praise God that he punishes justly. Everyone pays the price for denying Him worship.

Exodus 23:21 "Be on your guard before him and obey his voice; do not be rebellious toward him, for he will not pardon your transgression, since My name is in him.

And thats why we have storms and devastation, its His Holy will to bring it upon us to try and help us understand how much we need Him. When someone dies from a flood or tornado or hurricane or gets shot. We automatically think God did something wrong. But since he is Holy, just, sovereign, and many other things we dont understand, his Will shouldnt be questioned.

Sorry I got off on a rant

Any rebuttles?
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Old 06-04-2009, 09:28 AM
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Default Re: Who is God?

Well to start, to put an actually face on God I feel is denying God majesty. the Word says we were made in his image. So by faith you can look at yourself in the mirror and see a piece of the creator in you. for Einstein, he may have given credit to an ultimate being or creator but he was in all intents and purposes an athiest so his ideas are moot towards the Judeo/Christian God. the muslims' God well, some muslim say that He tells them to kill infidels I met one muslim who said that his religious texts mention nothing of the sort and that the definition of 'Jihad' means to fight for God, not to kill for God and totally resents the muslims you hear about on television. about adam and eve, im not to savvy to evolution because I believe what the bible tells me..'Let us make man in our image'...my faith in those words gives more credit to my God and thats all i will say about that other than, if we evolved from monkeys or ape there would be none in existence today. the idea that the world is 4.5 billion years old is only a theory created by man made technology. we're an advanced race but we cant see the past nor tell the future. actually im going to stop here, because everything you've mentioned that you're concern is present in happened because it was God's will. Im not saying the telescopic images are false I'm saying that the reason what was captured happened is so beyond our understanding that trying to say 'this or this "probably" happened' means simply, "I don't know, I'm guessing'. Science is great for conversation but its all theory and guessing. The Bible has been being proved fact for 100s of years. Okay, im stopping now, seriously, im gonna stop typing right about n..
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:36 AM
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Default Re: Who is God?

Who is God? He's been called omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and other such words, but He is beyond words unless it is His own Word.

Jesus is all of God's Word, but does that help us to describe Him, to define Him? Some will say here that His Word is the Bible or in the Bible, but that being the case, still, who other than Jesus had it all and understood it all.

Alone we know nothing, understand nothing, but when He is directing our steps, His face is becoming clear to us. If we endure with Him to the end of our course we will see Him clearly.

Even if someone can see Him clearly now, before the end of his/her course, can any words of man in any language describe Him?

"And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him." I John 4:16.

We must pray with David,

"When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8

Last edited by Amadeus : 06-04-2009 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 06-04-2009, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: Who is God?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
There seem to me to be as many Gods as there are those who believe in Him. From Michaelangelo's version of the white haired Sunday school God to Einstein's version who didn't like playing dice. From the one in the muddy foxhole to the one in the beauty of the night sky or a spectacular dawn. From the one who talks to you personally to comfort you to the one that tells others to kill.

He's the same one you share with Muslims. He's the one that will take your child but promise you everlasting life. He's indifferent, capricious, loving, ever present but nowhere to be found. He'll leave clues to His presence to those who want to believe, but none to those who don't.

He made the world in 6 days, four and half billion years ago and caused evolution to produce Adam and Eve. He also created worlds that we'll never see, that have ceased to exist and that served no purpose.

Did He have a choice in making us? Are we the result of divine boredom? Are we only here to praise Him? What is His purpose in me sitting here? Did He want evolution to reach a point where we could appreciate His part in our existence? I don't get the 'why'.

I really don't get why He made the whole place so complicated. There are wheels within wheels and ever increasing degrees of complication the harder we look. How come He couldn't make it straightforward and easy to understand? If He makes the rules, then surely it couldn't be that hard.

And I really don't get why He made it take 14.5 billion years before He thought it might be a good idea to check in on us. What was the purpose of all that time? And the complete universe literally a waste of space as far as we're concerned. Why did He made a rock on some small planet on the outer reaches of everything back so far in time that it now doesn't exist? Why all that effort?

Some people seem to stick with the Sunday school version, the God that's on 'our side'. The one in the church, the one who's blood you drink. The one who's boy was wrapped in swaddling clothes and could turn water into wine.

I thought thought that an increase in knowledge would lead to a decrease in belief. Science will prevail! But maybe for some it concentrates that belief.

(Apologises to Peg, stomps around the porch, kicks the cat and spills his beer in the process).
Don't kick the cat (he is God's creation Also, spilling the beer ain't good (hope you did not spill it on the cat, or that causes other problems).

Brad, you strike me as one of the most likeable and sincere people here, as well as being very intelligent. I will not pretend that you have not already considered some or much of what I am about to state, but hopefully can spark fruitful discussion.

Let's look at science for a moment. In science, empirical observations are each from a unique point of view. We can only see things "from within the fishbowl," and never from without. Einstein's God who doesn't play dice turned out to be Heisenberg's God who sometimes does play dice (quantum mechanics) and sometimes doesn't (einsteins relativity). Nonetheless, their view of creation/the universe itself does not negate its actuality. In philosophal analysis this is, as you already know but others may not, known as the "problem of induction." The fact that we cannot deduce reality, but have to rely on induction even with regard to our physical universe, is problematic. The fact that a majority of scientists in the 1930's believed in the steady state theory and a majority now do not, calling it "the problem of a beginning" is proof of point. Those minority who back then believed the big bang, we right on, and this has absolutely no bearing on reality. Because they believed it didn't make it true--because it is true makes it true. However, although whether we believe a truth to be true or not has no bearing on the reality itself, it does have a bearing on our condition. The scientists who did not believe in penicillin were wrong, and the others were right. Both had scientifically justifiable reasons for their beliefs, but the ones that were right changed our life expentency.

You can have 4 groups of people even today
1. The ones that think penicillin is a lie
2. The ones that believe it, but won't take it because they don't think they need to, and die from a bacterial infection
3. Those who believe it is real and take it when they were sick and lived
4. Those who were never really thought they were sick in the first place but took it just to be safe.

Same thing with God (minus the impossibility of observing the metaphysical under physical conditions). Is he the God of deism vs. theism? I think perhaps Anthony Flew deals with this fairly well.

Of course, why 15 billions years? Why the vast space? Of course, God is outside time, so to him, it is all "concurrent." For us there is a "then" and a "now," but to him, he sees all things at once. Also He is, by definition, beyond space. Again, we are within the fishbowl and are bounded by that (and only a part of the fishbowl at that), but He is not, and sees all things from both within and without.

Also, ponder this. Before the big bang, what was beyond the singularity? since einstein and others have shown that the universe has limits, there is still that which is beyond the "banged" singularity. What is it?

That we believe or don't believe or what we believe about God's existence is irrelevant to the reality of the existence. Nonetheless, to us it is relevant, just as penicillin. You have a lot of things I did not address, but will come back and discuss it more soon. Also do not want to detract from initial post.

Last edited by Linsinbigler : 06-04-2009 at 04:29 PM.
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  #8  
Old 06-04-2009, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: Who is God?

He is the great....."I AM"
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Old 06-04-2009, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: Who is God?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad View Post
I thought thought that an increase in knowledge would lead to a decrease in belief. Science will prevail! But maybe for some it concentrates that belief.

(Apologises to Peg, stomps around the porch, kicks the cat and spills his beer in the process).

Creak, creak, creak: hey now! Not the cat!! I just paid top dollar to get that thing outta that tree!

Sorry, bud, I knew that the title and my name as thread starter would intrigue you, but I didn't realize it would cause this conversation. Good thing the porch is shady and we can sit a spell and chat about it. It's funny, I know we've talked about the "dangers" of unraveling the truths of science, the fallacies of religious teachings, and the potential then of losing my faith as I set aside more and more of man's interpretations of religious things, but I'm finding the opposite is true. The more I strip away, the more I look at the complexity of the universe and our absolute (IMO) inability to ever truly grasp it's intricacies, the stronger my faith in the existence of God. In beginning to understand that there is no way for this curious mind of mine to ever get to the bottom of the "mysteries", I begin to really get it. It is in unknowing that I can know Him. It's stripping everything back down to that first question that separates us: God or a singularity? I see the confusion of man trying to sort if Buddha, Lord Shiva, Allah, God, or God and Christ are at the helm of this existence and I have no confusion. I read the teachings that argue back and forth on every detail of Christian belief and point to each of the 2000+ denominations as being the "only true church", and there's no argument in me: yes they each are "the only true church". It's in unknowing that I know Him and see His works more clearly. God is in the darkness of an empty mind, a mind unfettered from all those musings, which sees more clearly now His light. In examining each of these religious or scientific teachings, I dismantle the unbelief that exists in me. By admitting over and over again that I can't figure it out, that I can't prove, that I can't know, all of those things seem to happen.

Getting kinda scary here in the old brain, Brad..... better pour me a fresh beer.
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Why are we here, what's life all about? Is God really real, or is there some doubt? Well tonight we're going to sort it all out: For tonight it's the meaning of life" Not Finished Yet

Last edited by NotFinishedYet : 06-04-2009 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 06-04-2009, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: Who is God?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
Who is God? He's been called omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent and other such words, but He is beyond words unless it is His own Word.

Jesus is all of God's Word, but does that help us to describe Him, to define Him? Some will say here that His Word is the Bible or in the Bible, but that being the case, still, who other than Jesus had it all and understood it all.

Alone we know nothing, understand nothing, but when He is directing our steps, His face is becoming clear to His. If we endure with Him to the end of our course we will see Him clearly.

Even if someone can see Him clearly now, before the end of his/her course, can any words of man in any language describe Him?

"And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him." I John 4:16.

We must pray with David,

"When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek." Psalm 27:8

John, you are such a blessing to me. I know that you truly get what I'm trying to say here.

1 Cor 2:7-13
but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; but just as it is written,
“THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD,
AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN,
ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM.”
For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.
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Why are we here, what's life all about? Is God really real, or is there some doubt? Well tonight we're going to sort it all out: For tonight it's the meaning of life" Not Finished Yet
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