[colin]

When the people of this world come before the Lord and read his word they presume they have come out of sin. To presume they know the thoughts of God and are worthy to put the words of his covenent in their mouth is the sin they have put themselves in. Presume nothing. God's ways are not the ways of man .These people stop sinning against man and sin against the lord now. They make a graven image of God and break every comandment while doing that. When they see the Spirit, it is then they come out of sin with the conviction of the Spirit.

Here is a quote from a magazine article you might find interesting:

Between Presumption and Despair

Faith, hope, and love are theological virtues, gifts given by God to help us in our journey to heaven where alone we can find perfect happiness. They are called "theological" because they are received as gifts through God’s power (as opposed to acquired virtues attained through human effort) and because they focus in distinct ways on God himself. The virtue of faith believes in God and in what God has revealed. The virtue of charity is a friendly union with God which begins now but reaches its culmination in the life to come.

The virtue of hope grows out of faith and is a manifestation of love, since by hope we move towards perfect union with God in heaven. The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines hope as "the theological virtue by which we desire the kingdom of heaven and eternal life as our happiness, placing our trust in Christ’s promises and relying not on our own strength, but on the help of the grace of the Holy Spirit" (CCC 1817).

Hope, as a virtue, lies in a mean between the extremes of two vices, presumption and despair. With presumption, a person assumes that he will be saved. "Either man presumes upon his own capacities (hoping to be able to save himself without help from on high), or he presumes upon God’s almighty power or his mercy (hoping to obtain his forgiveness without conversion and glory without merit)" (CCC 2092). The dictum, "once saved, always saved" expresses a kind of presumption, for it holds that even if mortal sin (deadly destruction of our friendship with God) is knowingly and willing done, a person can maintain a good relationship with God both now and into eternity.

"By despair, man ceases to hope for his personal salvation from God, for help in attaining it or for the forgiveness of his sins. Despair is contrary to God’s goodness, to his justice—for the Lord is faithful to his promises—and to his mercy" (CCC 2091). We may despair at the loss of many sought goods, but there is no despair like the loss of the greatest of all goods, perfect happiness.

In presumption, salvation is considered automatic; in despair, salvation is thought to be impossible. Both presumption and despair contradict authentic hope. Salvation is always possible with God’s help, for God’s love and mercy extends even to the most hardened, vicious sinner. However, salvation is not automatic, for God cannot contradict himself— giving people the liberty to freely believe in him and love him both now and forever and also not giving people that freedom.

source:
Man Needs Hope to Live (This Rock: April 2008)

[colin]

Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader

Here is a quote from a magazine article you might find interesting:



source:
Man Needs Hope to Live (This Rock: April 2008)

verry good again. Thank you. I see your with me and not against me now . Love you brother.

[Amadeus]

Originally Posted by colin

When the people of this world come before the Lord and read his word they presume they have come out of sin. To presume they know the thoughts of God and are worthy to put the words of his covenent in their mouth is the sin they have put themselves in. Presume nothing. God's ways are not the ways of man .These people stop sinning against man and sin against the lord now. They make a graven image of God and break every comandment while doing that. When they see the Spirit, it is then they come out of sin with the conviction of the Spirit.

People presume alot colin. They presume that when they speak in tongues that they are saved. They presume that when they have sincerely spoken aloud a sinner's prayer that they are saved. They presume that when they have repented that they are saved. They presume that having memorized the Bible or large portion of it that they are saved. They presume that when they have performed all of the rituals of their given denomination that they are saved.

Some or even all of these things may be good, but without having the mind of Christ and God, how can we know that we are saved? As you said, by His Spirit!

"...This is the word of the LORD unto [you, me, her, him, etc.], saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts." Zech 4:6

[colin]

Originally Posted by Amadeus

People presume alot colin. They presume that when they speak in tongues that they are saved. They presume that when they have sincerely spoken aloud a sinner's prayer that they are saved. They presume that when they have repented that they are saved. They presume that having memorized the Bible or large portion of it that they are saved. They presume that when they have performed all of the rituals of their given denomination that they are saved.

Some or even all of these things may be good, but without having the mind of Christ and God, how can we know that we are saved? As you said, by His Spirit!

"...This is the word of the LORD unto [you, me, her, him, etc.], saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts." Zech 4:6

Yes my friend. well spoken Amadeus. Doesn't it make you wonder about the people out there confessing they brorke the law thinking they confess their sins. Brother it scares me to go there. I love you my friend.

Originally Posted by Amadeus

.....They presume that when they have repented that they are saved.....

I think THAT is the biggie right there. Presuming upon God's mercy no matter what a person does is a sin.

[Amadeus]

Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader

I think THAT is the biggie right there. Presuming upon God's mercy no matter what a person does is a sin.

Yes, CC, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord Thy God!