THE WORLD’S MOST EVIL BELIEFS - IMHO

The world’s most evil beliefs & the most important issue

The eternal torment theology of the Arminian Christian relies on so-called “free will” and luck.

The god that Arminian Christian eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures

“Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don’t have the good sense to cooperate with my son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment forever.”

The eternal torment theology of the Calvinist Christian relies on God alone, not “free will” at all. It is summed up by the word TULIP: Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, and the Perseverance of the elect.

The god that Calvinistic Christian eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures

"I created most of you for the purpose of torturing you forever. However, I am going to choose a few of you undeserving ones to go to heaven where you will be happy forever." John Calvin said there will be infants a span long in hell because they were not among the elect. (A span is the distance between the tip of the thumb to the tip of the little finger.)

And then both the Arminian and Calvinistic eternal tormentors say that the feelings that they have for this god of theirs is “love.”

Without God’s sustaining power everyone would cease to exist. So if anyone were to suffer forever, our all-powerful God (Who is Love in essence, not just loving) would be fully 100% responsible for it. We would have to conclude that any definition of the manifestation of “love-in-essence” includes eternally sustaining people alive in an inescapable state of suffering.

What a travesty; what a revolting definition of love it is that God, Who is love personified, would grant any creature a will so strong that they can choose themselves into an irreversible state of never ending suffering (Arminian) or deserve to suffer forever just by being born into the human race (Calvinist)!!

Thank God the Bible does not teach such insane ideas!
Kingdom Bible Studies: J. Preston Eby, Kingdom of God; Saviour of The World
Absolute Assurance
Universal Salvation University

Copy and paste one of the following titles into Google
SAVIOR OF THE WORLD SERIES EBY
Or
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
Or
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY

Anyone is welcome to believe anything they want to.

I'm just so glad I learned about the following information.
It enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78.
I'm 70 now.
I, and many others with whom I have become acquainted, simply could not successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God would let anyone suffer forever. Here is the testimony of one such person who went insane for the same reasons I did.
Copy and paste the following title into Google
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
absolute assurance in jesus christ
Absolute Assurance

Eternal Torment Calvinism, Eternal Torment Arminianism, Annihilation, or Christian Biblical Universalism.

Which one of the four is the truth?

This debate nearly always ends with the words, "My Greek scholars are more reliable
than your Greek scholars," and the result is a stalemate.

If readers think it glorifies God more to believe that He is going to let some of His creatures suffer forever or annihilate them, then they should keep believing that.
But if they think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need, which is a change in their stubborn will, then I would like them to know that that is exactly what the Bible teaches that God is like.

THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE

The findings of Greek scholar Louis Abbott and the other Greek scholars quoted in chapters three and twelve of his online book IMHO renders all other arguments irrelevant.

IMHO these findings effectively close the case on the arguments that eternal tormentors try so hard to uphold.
But of course one has to actually read them to see what I mean.

Just Google up AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS and enjoy, or click on
An Analytical Study of Words
The following chapter links in blue probably may be activated on this post.
• About the Author
• Dedication
• Forward
• Chapter1 - Definitions of Aion, Aionios
• Chapter2 - Usages of Aion
• Chapter3 - Opinion of the Scholars
• Chapter4 - Apparent Contradictions
• Chapter5 - "Forever and Ever" - A Poor Translation
• Chapter6 - What Saith The Translations?
• Chapter7 - Eonian Means What? - A Search For Truth
• Chapter8 - Greek Tools
• Chapter9 - Examples in Greek Literature
• Chapter10 - Bibles Without "Everlasting Punishment"
• Chapter11 - Verses "Proving" Punishment Will be Everlasting
• Chapter12 - Scholars Acknowledge Restitution of All
• Chapter13 - Punishment? Yes - Everlasting? No
• Chapter14 - A Long, But Not Eternal Visit To "Hell"
• Chapter15 - The "Chosen," Not "I have chosen"
• Chapter16 - Clearing Things Up
• Chapter17 - The Complete Revelation
• Appendix 1 - Commentary of Previous Presentation
• Appendix 2 - Do You Believe ALL in the Bible?
• Appendix 3 - Reconciliation Scriptures
• Appendix 4 - What Pleases the Father?
• Appendix 5 - What if we are Wrong?
• Christian Biblical Universalism versus Annihilation
• Eternal Death (Annihilation): One Step Out of Hell; One Step Short of Glory
• Bible Threatenings Explained
• Bible Threatenings Explained
• Universal Salvation University
• Universal Salvation University

[Olsen]

rodgertutt, I read your post with extreme interest together with one further reference you cited: Absolute Assurance in Jesus Christ by Charles Slagel .

The topic of the "eternity" of hell was discussed many years ago at a meeting of our forum. There is little doubt, however, that the traditional answers of mainline christianity still leave not only lingering doubt, but genuine angst among many-including obviously yourself before being introduced to the theological system which suggests otherwise. I know, for example, that our Lutheran minister, Reverend Meyer, has reached the conclusion that appears close to your own.

Of course, as Greek philosophers concluded centuries ago, both time and motion are illusions and the eternal order of the ever present now is the only reality. As you correctly point out, God indeed creates and sustains all things and His essence is love and the Holy Spirit may best be expressed as love personified. How then, could a God of such loving essence sustain any of His rational creatures in torment forever? I believe that the answer may lie in this point: God sustains His rational creature in torment because the rational creature through the exercise of free will presists in his rebellion to the will of God who surely desires, as you correctly point out, exactly the opposite; eternal bliss. What parent, after all, would not want precisely the same thing for a rebellious son or daughter who nevertheless remains estranged from parental love and, as a consequence, continues to suffer by presistent disobedience. In short, hell is eternal until the rebellion ceases.
The mystery of a never ceasing rebellion remains. I would respectfully suggest that you cannot personally conceive of a rational creature, so steeped in evil, that they would persist through pride in never surrendering to Gods grace even to stop their own suffering. It is difficult, if not impossible, to imagine such but it may not be difficult to imagine that a genuine surrendering to grace must be motivated by something other than a mere desire to stop suffering. Is Gods grace sufficient to supply that motivation in the face of free will to reject it, or stated differently, can God make His grace irresistable even to the most hardened soul? I think so and it appears that you do too.

Carried to its logical conclusion, however, hell could never be eternal in the sense of "forever" as we normally understand the term in our temporal order. The other alternative, of course, is that God will anniliate the soul that remains in rebellion so that Gods holy presence is still "all in all" which is incompatiable with residual evil. It is similiar to the philosophical principle that "all things return to their source". God who is the source of all things will bring everything home EXCEPT that which he anniliates. I am close in my own thinking to accepting either the first alternative (yours) or the second as just expressed in this paragraph.

The traditional answer may, however, be correct in that it is still a theocentric universe; all exist for Gods glory; and His ways are not necessarily our ways. When you think of "Christ crucified", however, that speaks volumes of Gods true nature and of His love of humanity which is precisely why the traditional teaching regarding eternal punishment continues to trouble all that hold to it.

I would welcome and encourage further input from our entire community both lay and minister alike. While awaiting such input, I would like to sincerely thank you for a most thought provoking post.

THE FOLLOWING HAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE TRUE REGARDING THE DEBATE ABOUT ETERNAL TORMENT

The argument about “eternal hell” nearly always ends with the words, “My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars,” and the result is nearly always a stalemate.
My Greek scholars are Louis Abbott and the Greek scholars he quotes in chapters three and twelve.
An Analytical Study of Words

If you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.

But if you think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that that is exactly what God is like.

ON THE BASIS OF HAVING STUDIED THE EVIDENCE AVAILABLE TO YOU CHOOSE ONE
Choose to believe that the Bible teaches that God will sustain people alive in an inescapable state of eternal suffering.
Or
Choose to believe that God will annihilate (cause them to cease to exist) anyone who does not become a Christian before they die.
Or
Choose to believe what the following expositors reveal about what the Bible teaches.
Copy and paste into Google
THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
Savior of the World Series
Kingdom Bible Studies: J. Preston Eby, Kingdom of God; Saviour of The World
Or
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
absolute assurance in jesus christ
Absolute Assurance
Or
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
Universal Salvation University
Or
CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM
Christian-Universalism.com > Christian Universalist Articles
Or
CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM
The Christian Universalist Association ~ Christian Universalism
Or
ETERNAL DEATH ANNIHILATION?
Eternal Death (Annihilation): One Step Out of Hell; One Step Short of Glory
WHAT ABOUT THE ANNIHILATION OF THE WICKED?
Christian Universalist FAQ > What About Annihilation of the Wicked?

I myself, along with many others with whom I am acquainted, simply cannot love a god who would let anyone choose themselves into an inescapable state of eternal suffering (Arminian), or suffer forever just because they were born into the human race (Calvinist). Neither can we love a god who would snuff us out of existence just because we didn’t hear about Jesus before we died.

But we CAN love a god Who, because of His Son’s death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, will sooner or later save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved. That’s the God that the above expositors see in the Bible. And that’s the God to Whom I joyously yield my heart in complete and total abandonment.

SO FOR US THE CHOICE IS EASY

See

How I recovered from a 12 year nervous breakdown (1966-78) I’m 70 years old.

I could have avoided a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) had I known as a youth about the following information concerning what a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches


You can also access most of the following writings through Google by typing in the title.

BOOKS THAT SHOW THAT THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION,
THE ENTIRE CONTENTS OF WHICH CAN BE READ ONLINE

If necessary, copy and paste the following urls into the address bar.

0. ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
absolute assurance in jesus christ
1. HOPE BEYOND HELL - Gerry Beauchemin (recently published)
http://hopebeyondhell.net/Revised_Edition.pdf
2. CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin
3. THE BIBLE HELL - J.W. Hanson
The Bible Hell
4. THE ORIGIN AND HISTORY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ENDLESS PUNISHMENT – Thomas Thayer
The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless Punishment
5. THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – Dr. Loyal Hurley
The Outcome of Infinite Grace
6. JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN "HELL" - J. Preston Eby
Just What Do You Mean...Hell?
7. ONE HUNDRED SCRIPTURAL PROOFS THAT JESUS CHRIST WILL SAVE ALL MANKIND - Thomas Whittemore
100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind
8. TWENTY-FOUR SERMONS ON UNIVERSAL SALVATION – John Bovee Dods
Twenty-Four Short Sermons on the Doctrine of Universal Salvation
9. THE SECOND DEATH AND THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – Andrew Jukes
Restitution of All Things (Index)
10. ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY REASONS FOR BELIEVING IN THE FINAL SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND – Erasmus Manford
150 Reasons For Believing In The Final Salvation Of All Mankind
11. THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS – J. Patching
The Rich Man and Lazarus by J. Patching
12. BIBLE TRANSLATIONS THAT DO NOT TEACH ETERNAL TORMENT – Gary Amirault
Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
13. AION – AIONIOS – John Wesley Hanson
AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS
14. BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
Bible Threatenings Explained
15. THE CASE OF JUDAS, ETCETERA
Chapter Sixteen
16. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – John Essex
AND THE ROLE OF THE ADVERSARY – James Webb
The Problem
17. HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE – James Coram
Concordant Expositions (html format) - His Achievement Are We
18. THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – Andrew jukes
The Restitution of All Things
19. THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – George Hawtin
The Restitution of All Things By George Hawtin
20. THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES
Savior of the World Series

[Olsen]

Rodgertutt, I again wish to thank you for your most interesting further reply. I am and will remain most interested in what our entire community feels about your point of view and hopefully, we will hear from them. Thank you again

Originally Posted by Olsen

Rodgertutt, I again wish to thank you for your most interesting further reply. I am and will remain most interested in what our entire community feels about your point of view and hopefully, we will hear from them. Thank you again

CALVINISM VERSUS ARMINIANISM

Calvinism is a cruel and unloving profanity.

Arminianism is a proud and self-righteous profanity.

Calvinism is cruel and unloving because it claims that God allows beings to come into existence that deserve to suffer endlessly, and will suffer endlessly, except for a few that God will rescue from such a fate by His irresistible grace.

Aminianism is proud and self-righteous because it claims that only those who receive the proper information, and act on it properly before they die, will avoid suffering endlessly. They claim that God is unable to successfully influence anyone's will, unless they let Him.

The Calvinist's god allows millions of beings to come into existence and either cannot, or will not, do anything to stop them from suffering forever.

The Arminian's god lets us down just when we need Him the most. Our greatest need is a change in our stubborn will. The Arminian god either cannot, or will not meet us, on this, the level of our greatest need.

A profanity is an idea conceived by our sinful hearts. Both Calvinism and Arminianism are profanities. Against the black background of these profanities God will paint the glorious masterpiece of universal transformation.

The truth of universal transformation solves all of the irreconcilable differences between Calvinism and Arminianism. It recognizes that our "free will" is the freedom to choose only in the direction of the strongest influence, and that God is in intimate sovereign control over all influences.

Each person is being fitted into God's master-plan in God's own special way for them. Each person responds to their own unique set of "strongest influences." And ultimately, when the time period of the ages has ended, God will have transformed the consequences of everyone's choices into something glorifying to Himself, and beneficial to the chooser.

It is unavoidable that how we think about God will affect our state of being. We tend to become like the god we worship. The one who puts their faith in Calvinism, tends to become cruel and unloving. The one who puts their faith in Arminianism, tends to become proud and self-righteous. If a Calvinist is not cruel and unloving, or, if an Arminian is not proud and self-righteous, it is entirely due to the intervention of God's undefeatable grace through Christ. God often operates through people in spite of what they believe.

God's grace can only be resisted if God wants to teach us lessons that could be learned no other way. But ultimately, God's grace is undefeatable.

Both Calvinism and Arminianism are built upon the false foundation of "endless hell." When this foundation has been replaced, the differences between them become irrelevant.

The profanity of the doctrine of "endless suffering in hell" is also part of the black background upon which God will paint His glorious masterpiece. Without fail, God will, in due time, transform all deceptions, delusions, and false doctrines, into something better that they temporarily prevailed than if they had not. And He will do this for everyone, without exception.

Calvinism, Arminianism, or Christian Biblical Universalism
WHICH VIEW OF SALVATION IS TRUE?

ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST – Charles Slagle
Absolute Assurance

THE LAW OF CIRCULARITY – J.Preston Eby
The Law of Circularity: Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever? How Men Are Saved

[ICT7133]

rodgertutt:

You have yet to post one Scripture in this forum to back up your pontifications.
I have once met somebody like you in another board, who rails against somebody's doctrine and all he did, like you, was to post links to his webpage.
I, for one, would appreciate it, if you would post Scriptures to prove your point and then we can go from there.
Thanks.

Originally Posted by ICT7133

rodgertutt:

You have yet to post one Scripture in this forum to back up your pontifications.
I have once met somebody like you in another board, who rails against somebody's doctrine and all he did, like you, was to post links to his webpage.
I, for one, would appreciate it, if you would post Scriptures to prove your point and then we can go from there.
Thanks.

It may be that you want me to actually post the Scriptures which I can do if you like. Or instead, I can guide you to where you can find the Scriptures as follows:

SCRIPTURAL PROOFS THAT THE BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION

Universalism is Not in the Bible

Understanding Universal Salvation Part One

100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind

BIBLE PROOFS

Hell is Leaving the Bible Forever</b></font>

Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment
Bible Translations That Do Not Teach Eternal Torment

Also see five scriptural expositions expounding Universal Reconciliation at

biblical studies: Torturing Doubts and Exultant Faith

biblical studies: Crucial Questions About Resurrection

Concordant Expositions (html format) - The Eons

Contending For The Faith -- A Response to Don Hewey's "Rebuttal" to Questions Without Answers

Regarding the most common argument that the same word for "punishment" is also used for "life" see the following:

Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”

All three of these articles should be studied with care, especially the third one.

biblical studies: Eon As Indefinite Duration, Part One
biblical studies: Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Two
biblical studies: Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Three

also see

biblical studies: The Greek Word Ain
biblical studies: SCRIPTURE TRANSLATION PRINCIPLES
Universal Salvation University

A little test about the word "ALL" that's found in Scripture.

If Truth is changed to not be all inclusive, when the context renders that it should be it then becomes error.

Reconsider the following Scriptures, without using any preconceived thoughts or forced interpretation upon them. This may be more difficult to do than first realized, because we all resort to an immediate interpretation of something based on our past understandings of the verse.

The darkest doctrine ever devised by men was that of an "eternal suffering" for the billions of souls that die lost without Christ.
Like wolves among the sheep, carnally-minded men within the church system found it very effective to use the fear of an unending hell to control the masses that enter their religion.
Unfortunately this doctrine has remained at large in Christianity as a whole.

The Lord Jesus said, "When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men to myself." - John 12:32
LOOK AT THE VERSES WITH THE WORD ALL

Savior of all, especially believers (1 Tim 4:9-11)

Especially Those That Believe

God wills that all mankind be saved (1 Tim 2:4)

Operating all in accord with counsel of His will (Eph 1:11)

In Adam all dying; in Christ shall all be vivified (1 Cor 15:21-23)

It says "in Christ shall all," not "all who are in Christ."

One offense for all mankind for condemnation... (Rom 5:18-19)

Lamb of God taking away sin of the world (John 1:29)

Correspondent ransom for all (1 Tim 2:6)

Every knee bowing (Phil 2:9; Is 45:23)

And we know that anyone who acclaims that Jesus Christ is Lord,
especially when it is to God's glory without any hypocrisy is saved for 1Corinthians 12:3 says so.

Locks all in stubbornness; to be merciful to all (Rom 11:30-32)

All created ... to reconcile all (Col 1:16-20)

He should be tasting death for the sake of everyone (Heb 2:9)

That the world might be saved thru Him (John 3:17)

God was in Christ conciliating the world to Himself (2 Cor 5:18)

For our sins, not ours only but the whole world (1 John 2:2)

[ICT7133]

Originally Posted by rodgertutt

<snip>
A little test about the word "ALL" that's found in Scripture.
If Truth is changed to not be all inclusive, when the context renders that it should be it then becomes error.

So there's a little mix of Arminianism in you, after all ? Oh, yes, the word "all" after "after" what does that refer to ? What could I possibly know about you that would give me the authority to say "after all" ? After "what" all or after "all" what ? Yet we use that same combination of words more often than we care to realize in the English Language.

As to "context", that can either be narrowed or expanded. For example, when Jesus sent out His apostles to preach the gospel, to better understand the correlation between eternal salvation and the purpose of preaching the gospel, one needs to look at an expanded context to include the theological context of the times, not only the historical context.

What that means is the reader needs to realize that at that point of history, assuming that the entire humankind's population was 1 billion beings, the theological context is this: that of those 1 billion beings, at best only a very small percentage, called the Israelites, scattered all over the known world of that time, were monotheists (if that is the right word), while all the rest were either pagans, idolaters, or polytheists. And of that very small percentage which the Israelites comprise, only 120 knew that the promised Messiah has come, been crucified, and resurrected, and of those 120, at that particular minute in time, only 12, the apostles aka disciples, that were with the Savior on top of the mountain, knew that He was about to go back to His Father.

To understand why the gospel must be preached, we then take a look at the context of the cast of characters. We narrow context, in other words. Principally, we take a look at Christ. Christ has repeatedly said that He came to save, not mankind, but those that the Father gives Him (John 6:37),
as a matter of fact, His last prayer pre-crucifixion, covered only those that were with Him (John 17:9) and as He expanded more on this, He included also those that will believe in Him through their witness (John 17:20).
Now, using the very same formula that Scriptures give us in the interpretation of Scripture, that is, precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
(Isaiah 28:10), we see that on that cross the eternal salvation, not of mankind, but of a definite number of men among mankind, the "many" in Isaiah 53, has been effected.
In other words, the work of salvation is done, the work of redemption is done, now He sends His disciples to all "nations" (the word that Jews use for Gentiles) with the gospel or the good news of their finished salvation. He is not sending them to get men saved, because He alone did that, He is sending them to tell His people of their hope, and their Savior, and to teach them, and gather them into a people glorifying Him, and leaving their false religions, in this time world, that they may partake of heavenly blessings while on earth.

But man, seeking glory for himself, twisted and tainted the finished work of Christ, so that now, because of their "obedience" and because of their "sacrifices" they go out on missions to get people saved, instead of to tell people of a Savior who is God in human form, who Himself came to redeem His own, and whom they need to trust and worship, instead of the graven idols and the other gods they have.

And in the same purpose, man, seeking to create a god that fits his bill, that sees eye to eye with him, assumes to teach a god, who has the same definition of love and mercy that he has himself made up, and wishes to bring a holy God who owes His existence to no one, down to his (the created, fallen creature whose very air he breathes he owes to God) level, by teaching that a God of love will not tolerate nor even think of fulfilling His own word in His own book, about the eternal punishment of the line of Cain, and the eternal bliss of the line of Abel (phrases which I use to simply differentiate between the elect and the unelect, not as doctrine).

I am sorry to say this, rodgertutt, but one of the world's most evil beliefs is your belief that God will not punish those who have rejected him through the disobedience of one man who alone had true free will.

Originally Posted by rodgertutt

Reconsider the following Scriptures, without using any preconceived thoughts or forced interpretation upon them. This may be more difficult to do than first realized, because we all resort to an immediate interpretation of something based on our past understandings of the verse.

I don't know that that is at all possible since there is not one part of the Bible that has not been subject to the scrutiny and commentary of scholars, both true and false. Even the word "all" that you are arguing about has been scrutinized, interpreted, and dissected in strong's dictionary as to their use in the Hebrew and Greek language.

Originally Posted by rodgertutt

The darkest doctrine ever devised by men was that of an "eternal suffering" for the billions of souls that die lost without Christ.
Like wolves among the sheep, carnally-minded men within the church system found it very effective to use the fear of an unending hell to control the masses that enter their religion.
Unfortunately this doctrine has remained at large in Christianity as a whole.

funny but as I read this part of your post, I am reminded of what I taught in the 60's and early 70's before my conversion. Religion is the opiate of the people, used by the ruling class to keep the exploited masses subdued (not verbatim I think). Sounds familiar to you ? That was a quote from one of the most brilliant but darkest minds of the human race, who spawned a godless system that used to control half the world. Here's another hint: he was a Jew.
In his case he was speaking of the whole world, in your case, you simply narrowed the context to the theological world. In both cases, there was a hatred for the truth of the existence of God, to whom, finally, ALL must account.

Okay, this is getting to be a long post. I am creating a second, and maybe a third, post, to deal with all the rest of your post.
However, I have to rush off to work, and won't be back until 9:30 pm, eastern time.
Catcha later.

Those who can love an “eternal torment” or “annihilationist” god will not be interested in the following information.

If necessary copy and paste the following title into Google

THE LAW OF CIRCULARITY
The Law of Circularity: Will Jesus Torture Billions Forever? How Men Are Saved

But people who cannot love an “eternal torment” or “annihilationist” god will discover that all of the arguments against the Bible teaching universal salvation have been refuted in the following links.

If necessary copy and paste one of the following titles into Google

ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
Absolute Assurance

BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED
Bible Threatenings Explained

Information on Hell and Universal Salvation
Quick Find: Links to Information on Hell and Universal Salvation

UNIVERSAL SALVATION ONLINE UNIVERSITY
Universal Salvation University

Also go to the search engine at the top of Christian universalism--Ultimate Reconcilation--Doctrine of Inclusion--Restitution of all--Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ: The True "Good News" Gospel of the Bible and type in a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage. Ten articles will come up refuting the claim that the Bible teaches eternal torment or annihilation. Then click to the next page and ten more articles will come up, and so on and so on for many pages.

TAKE YOUR PICK. I DID.

No, I'm not at all Arminian. I believe the strongest sets of influences ALWAYS dictate what we choose to believe. So when I say "you can believe anything you want to believe" I mean that you will believe whatever has the strongest influence on you.

My testimony contains information that, according to the many entries in my guest book, and the many positive emails in my email file folders, is helping many people. My guest book can be accessed towards the bottom of my front page at
Hope 4 You, Roger Tutt

Also see the testimonies at Visitor Comments and Testimonies

Also see Fruit from the Teaching of Hell

My guest book only holds 150 messages. Then the oldest ones are automatically deleted to make room for the newest ones.

SO MUCH SUFFERING is caused by the horrific false doctrine of endless suffering in hell, that it gives me great pleasure to guide people to the evidence that a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches universal salvation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation.

We agree with fundamentalist Christians that we should not believe things that go against Biblical teaching. We don’t.
Universalism is Not in the Bible

I'm 70, and I am acquainted with MANY people who are, or were in various stages of nervous breakdown over their inability to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever. Even though they have embraced Christ and His gospel, they are afraid of what God might do to them after they are raised from the dead for not being able to love Him. The information in my testimony has helped many of these people.

I myself suffered a twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78) because of my inability to love an endless-hell god. I’m 70 now.

If any member or surfer on forums is suffering because they are unable to successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God is going to let any creature suffer forever, they can Google up the search engine at the top of the TENTMAKER front page. Just type in a key word or phrase from each argument or scripture passages and ten articles will appear that refute the eternal hell and annihilationist doctrines.
Then click to the next page and ten more articles will appear, and so on and so on for many pages.

Most fundamentalist Christians are not even aware that there are two sides to the argument about what the Bible teaches.
I have exhaustively studied both sides myself. This debate nearly always ends with the words, "My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars," and the result is a stalemate.

If your readers think it glorifies God more to believe that He is going to let some of His creatures suffer forever, then they should keep believing that.
But if they think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need, which is a change in their stubborn will, then I would like them to know that that is exactly what the Bible teaches that God is like.

I am a Concordant Christian. I have read and recorded gleanings into my more than four thousand page personal journal from most of the back issues of UNSEARCHABLE RICHES that has been published back to 1909. Every argument that I have ever heard against the Bible teaching universal salvation have been repeatedly dealt with in these magazines.

Unsearchable Riches

Largely, but not exclusively, because of the contents in these magazines, I am convinced that the evidence in support of the Bible teaching universal salvation is irrefutable. That is why the argument that we should teach endless suffering in hell just in case it might be true is unacceptable to me. IMHO the greatest of all manifestations of God's grace in action on this earth is that anyone can believe in "eternal suffering" for anyone and not have a nervous breakdown thinking about it.

Here are several Concordant websites.
Concordant Publishing Concern
Saviour of all Fellowship, universal reconciliation, salvation of all mankind
God's Truth For Today!
Christian universalism--Ultimate Reconcilation--Doctrine of Inclusion--Restitution of all--Victorious Gospel of Jesus Christ: The True "Good News" Gospel of the Bible

Regarding arguments against the Bible teaching universal salvation, see
Bible Threatenings Explained

Any hell that anyone will experience the Bible calls "kolasis aionian," which means age-during corrective chastisement.
Chapter Eleven

It is limited in duration, and corrective in purpose.
AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS

Regarding the most common argument that the same word for "punishment" is also used for "life" see the following:
Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”

All three of these articles should be studied with care, especially the third one.
biblical studies: Eon As Indefinite Duration, Part One
biblical studies: Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Two
biblical studies: Eon As Indefinte Duration, Part Three

also see:
biblical studies: The Greek Word Ain
biblical studies: SCRIPTURE TRANSLATION PRINCIPLES

I also would like to leave you with one more link. I am going to guide you to the testimony of a man whose experience was almost identical to mine. Even the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown are the same as mine. Only he is more eloquent in telling his story than I am in telling mine. His name is Charles Slagle.
absolute assurance in jesus christ

It may begin to change your thinking.

The url of my own site is
Hope 4 You, Roger Tutt

God bless you in your study!
From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada