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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Theology, Reason vs Inspired

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  #1  
Old 07-06-2019, 06:02 AM
pryz's Avatar
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Default Theology, Reason vs Inspired

Things are so darn quiet around here, how about a shot from the hip?

I tend to like those that rattle some theologian’s world,
Except a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies,
it abides alone: but if it dies, it brings forth much fruit.

For wherever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together
.


(John 12:24, Matthew 24:28)
, , which Paul’s falls in line with,
(1 Corinthians 15:35-44)

35But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36You fool, that which you sow is not made alive, except it die:

37And that which you sow, you sow not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may by chance be wheat, or of some other grain:

38But God gives it a body as it has pleased him, and to every seed its own body.

39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fish, and another of birds.

40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differs from another star in glory.

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Could it be that a theologian’s carefulness serves more of a trap trying to define too many things too independently? Of course, this doesn’t always lay in such ambiguity, but anyone who has frequented their knowledge and understanding knows, speculation is rarely absent.

Thoughts?

.
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Old 07-06-2019, 08:00 AM
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Default Re: Theology, Reason vs Inspired

A theologian serves his purpose, as does the bishop. Unfortunately, once again, I cannot help but answer based on my personal beliefs. In the Catholic Church, doctrine/dogma is ultimately not decided by theologians, but by the bishops in a council guided by the Holy Spirit, the prototype of which was the council of Jerusalem, where after much discussion and prayer Peter said "“For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay no greater burden on you than these few requirements....." (Acts 15:28).

Yes, much study and nit-picking can be a trap. Fortunately for me, it is a trap I can never fall into for I defer to those who I believe are the successors of the apostles. There is much freedom in that.
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Old 07-06-2019, 03:12 PM
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Default Re: Theology, Reason vs Inspired

That is quite a development I don’t recall hearing from you, to ‘defer’. Safe to assume then, that whatever deferring is needed, that too is covered. My only question for the present then is; if the surety is fixed and pure, why would they need such a grave admonition over themselves and their successors instead of all the flock,
But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy. , ,

, , Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away.


(Hebrews 1:8,9, 14, 2:1)
Aside from mentioning the lineup of authority here, the Apostle has included himself and that office as being just as susceptible (to ‘drift away’) as any other without a foregone conclusion of shelter from error. Yes, if this was to happen, they are most likely to recover in a swift manner. But that still misses my point, here, fixed surety is given warning of a distinct possibility of falling. And if that is true that they too are susceptible, shouldn’t the warning fall on the rest of the flock as well?

It is at this point every candidate under the sun has the distinction of bearing the ‘grain’ (v-37) as God wills to increase, yes, including His gifts.

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Old 07-06-2019, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Theology, Reason vs Inspired

Quote:
Originally Posted by pryz View Post
That is quite a development I don’t recall hearing from you, to ‘defer’.......
To clarify, it means that whatever they declare is dogma I accept as dogma, based on my belief that they have the authority to make such declarations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pryz View Post
My only question for the present then is; if the surety is fixed and pure, why would they need such a grave admonition over themselves and their successors instead of all the flock,
But about the Son he says,

“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy. , ,

, , Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away.

(Hebrews 1:8,9, 14, 2:1)
Aside from mentioning the lineup of authority here, the Apostle has included himself and that office as being just as susceptible (to ‘drift away’) as any other without a foregone conclusion of shelter from error.
Well, sorry if my answer is sort of a "policy wonk" bureaucratic answer, but here it is:

Yes, an apostle, or bishop, can err too on their own. The only time they do not err is when in full council with Peter present, which is why I mentioned the council of Jerusalem. The council of Jerusalem is the template. But you are right, some bishop on his own can certainly err, and they do quite often I might add.
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Old 07-07-2019, 04:46 AM
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Default Re: Theology, Reason vs Inspired

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
To clarify, it means that whatever they declare is dogma I accept as dogma, based on my belief that they have the authority to make such declarations.

Well, sorry if my answer is sort of a "policy wonk" bureaucratic answer, but here it is:

Yes, an apostle, or bishop, can err too on their own. The only time they do not err is when in full council with Peter present, which is why I mentioned the council of Jerusalem. The council of Jerusalem is the template. But you are right, some bishop on his own can certainly err, and they do quite often I might add
.
etymology
1 : the history of a linguistic form (such as a word) shown by tracing its development since its earliest recorded occurrence in the language where it is found, by tracing its transmission from one language to another, by analyzing it into its component parts, by identifying its cognates in other languages, or by tracing it and its cognates to a common ancestral form in an ancestral language
-Webster

, , Comes to an abrupt halt when faced with the Spirit of God who penned so indelibly the characteristic that confirms His own provisions sent to His people. This is seldom distracted with word methods, but instead, the ever-universal God-given levels of understanding, aka inspirations reception is a long arduous path of plenty. Could God also grant understanding wherever lack of derivatives appear that require methods? Yes, but NOT if the attributes of sensual minds over spiritual fruit becomes evident.

We do have the predominant method,
And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have
power, , to grasp, , and to know this love that surpasses knowledge.

And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding,
will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus
.

(Ephesians 3:17-19, Philippians 4:7)
Not to stress this method of deference too much further, I would like to remark. If the above peace and love of God, thereby, surpassing comprehension, is to be forwarded into more capable hands, or even dedicated to councils that we are to ‘defer’ to, it seems the contingency upon the provisions supplied by the office sounds as though they supersede the limitless and indiscriminate provisions of a faithful Creator.

But where exactly are we told the expectant hearts of the sheep corrupt the ability to subject ourselves to them who watch over us? The grace of God’s distribution of gifts such as prophesy should flow towards, yes, the unlikely, the foolish, the simple sector as well. If God has said He ‘has chosen’ them, from what discretion is there to forbid the unleashing of it?

Both reason and inspiration can claim equally upon authentication of past involvements, decisions, but reason can’t claim the virtues of growth quite like inspiration can. One of the chief benefits of inspiration is that inspiration can use reason to confirm that growth

.
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Old 07-31-2019, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: Theology, Reason vs Inspired

Quote:
Originally Posted by pryz View Post


But where exactly are we told the expectant hearts of the sheep corrupt the ability to subject ourselves to them who watch over us?
[/size]

.
I think a more interesting question is where you found this wisdom?
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Old 08-01-2019, 03:04 AM
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Default Re: Theology, Reason vs Inspired

Quote:
Originally Posted by pryz View Post
But where exactly are we told the expectant hearts of the sheep corrupt the ability to subject ourselves to them who watch over us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschator83 View Post
I think a more interesting question is where you found this wisdom?
Thanks eschator, hum-well, seeing it is yet a continuation of the preceding paragraph, I believe there is cause for concern on what or where we are told to stay personal development? I think that is my concern there that it isn’t the type of subjection that is shown within such text as here,
Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete

James 1:4
For the subject of this ‘maturity’ was just admonished over the testing of his faith. Would that include the testing of the faith of the fathers? I suppose it could, except it started off with “brothers and sisters”.

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