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  #1  
Old 10-22-2018, 05:49 PM
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Default Rom 5:14 Reads ??

Hi and Rom 5:14 reads , But death reigned from Adam until Moses , even over the ones not having sinned after the likeness of the transgressions of Adam , who is a PATTERN OF THE COMING ONE !!

#1 , And when one died where did His SOUL GO ?

#2 , How was ADAM and those that died after Adam , HOW WERE THEY SAVED ??

#3 If there is only ONE GOSPEL , what is that GOSPEL CALLED ??

#4 What does it meas , NOT SINNED AFTER THE LIKENESS , MEAN ??

dan p

Last edited by danp : 12-10-2018 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 04-10-2019, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: Rom 5:14 Reads ??

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Originally Posted by danp View Post
Hi and Rom 5:14 reads , But death reigned from Adam until Moses , even over the ones not having sinned after the likeness of the transgressions of Adam , who is a PATTERN OF THE COMING ONE !!

#1 , And when one died where did His SOUL GO ?

#2 , How was ADAM and those that died after Adam , HOW WERE THEY SAVED ??

#3 If there is only ONE GOSPEL , what is that GOSPEL CALLED ??

#4 What does it meas , NOT SINNED AFTER THE LIKENESS , MEAN ??

dan p

Hi and where did OT saints go at death and in Luke 16:19-26 says the following !!

#1 , In verse 19 we have a certain rich man !

#2 , In verse 20 we have a begger called Lazarus !

#3 , In verse 22 both died !!

#4 , But in verse 22 at death Lazarus was carried by angels to Abraham's Bosom !

#5 And in HELL / HADES , the rich man lifted his eyes , BEING IN TORMENT and seeth Abraham and Lazarus in his Bosom !

#6 Notice that in verse 24 , that the rich man , that his soul is Tormented is that FLAME , yet , had no boby as his body was buried in verse 22!!

#7 This means that all that go to HELL / HADES will be in TORMENT !!

#8 In verse 26 those in HELL / HADES can see those in Abraham's Bosom BUT can not cross to the other side as there is a GREAT GULF FIXED so that neither can cross to each side forever !!

#9 We see that HELL/HADES will not be destroyed in Rev 20:14 !!

dan p
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Old 04-10-2019, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: Rom 5:14 Reads ??

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Originally Posted by danp View Post
Hi and Rom 5:14 reads , But death reigned from Adam until Moses , even over the ones not having sinned after the likeness of the transgressions of Adam , who is a PATTERN OF THE COMING ONE !!

#1 , And when one died where did His SOUL GO ?

#2 , How was ADAM and those that died after Adam , HOW WERE THEY SAVED ??

#3 If there is only ONE GOSPEL , what is that GOSPEL CALLED ??

#4 What does it meas , NOT SINNED AFTER THE LIKENESS , MEAN ??

dan p

Hi and where did OT saints go at death and in Luke 16:19-26 says the following !!

#1 , In verse 19 we have a certain rich man !

#2 , In verse 20 we have a begger called Lazarus !

#3 , In verse 22 both died !!

#4 , But in verse 22 at death Lazarus was carried by angels to Abraham's Bosom !

#5 And in HELL / HADES , the rich man lifted his eyes , BEING IN TORMENT and seeth Abraham and Lazarus in his Bosom !

#6 Notice that in verse 24 , that the rich man , that his soul is Tormented is that FLAME , yet , had no boby as his body was buried in verse 22!!

#7 This means that all that go to HELL / HADES will be in TORMENT !!

#8 In verse 26 those in HELL / HADES can see those in Abraham's Bosom BUT can not cross to the other side as there is a GREAT GULF FIXED so that neither can cross to each side forever !!

#9 We see that HELL/HADES will not be destroyed in Rev 20:14 !!

dan p
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  #4  
Old 04-11-2019, 07:39 AM
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Default Re: Rom 5:14 Reads ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by danp View Post
Hi and where did OT saints go at death and in Luke 16:19-26 says the following !!

#1 , In verse 19 we have a certain rich man !

#2 , In verse 20 we have a begger called Lazarus !

#3 , In verse 22 both died !!

#4 , But in verse 22 at death Lazarus was carried by angels to Abraham's Bosom !

#5 And in HELL / HADES , the rich man lifted his eyes , BEING IN TORMENT and seeth Abraham and Lazarus in his Bosom !

#6 Notice that in verse 24 , that the rich man , that his soul is Tormented is that FLAME , yet , had no boby as his body was buried in verse 22!!

#7 This means that all that go to HELL / HADES will be in TORMENT !!

#8 In verse 26 those in HELL / HADES can see those in Abraham's Bosom BUT can not cross to the other side as there is a GREAT GULF FIXED so that neither can cross to each side forever !!

#9 We see that HELL/HADES will not be destroyed in Rev 20:14 !!

dan p
I am curious what bible you are reading and why you don't, when you have questions go to the interlinear and translate back to the original language with auth KJV.
That's the problem we get with different versions and a pluralistic culture and pluralistic church mindset. What was once inspired by the Holy Spirit is now rewritten by men to compensate for majority of blended culture thinking.

auth KJV from the The Companion Bible-

19, But there was a certain rich man, which was habitually clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared in splendour every day:
20, And there was a certain poor man named Lazarus, which was cast down at his gate, full of sores,
21, And eagerly desiring to be fed from the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: but instead of finding food even the dogs came and licked off his ulcers.
22, And it came to pass, that the poor man died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23, And in Hades he having lifted up his eyes, being there in torments, and seeth Abraham from afar, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24, And crying out, he said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am distressed in this flame.
25, But Abraham said, Child, remember that thou in thy life had all thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art distressed.
26, And beside all this, between us and you there has been a great chasm established: so that they which desire to pass from hence to you are not able; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27, Then he said, I entreat thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him unto my father's house:
28, For I have five brethren; that he may earnestly testify unto them, that they also may not come into this place of distress.
29, Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30, And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them away from dead people, they will repent.
31, And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, not even if one rose from among dead people."

Jesus is explaining, at death we enter another dimension, that there is a great divide between the light and dark, those who die in Christ and those who dont at death, a gulf. while those who die are able to see what they miss out on while waiting for that great white throne judgement, a part of their torment, but there is no second chance, no one can see or hear them, (so-close and yet so far) and those on the other side are not aware how near or that they even exist, they are blotted out.

Where did the souls go in OT?
Back to God who gave them

Ecclesiastes 12:
1, Remember also the great Creator in the days of thy youth, while the days of affliction and death come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;
2, While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain:
3, In the day when arms of the body shall tremble, and the legs shall bow themselves, and the teeth become unfit for use because they are few, and the eyes [that look out of the eyelids] be dimmed,
4, And the mouth and ears shall be shut in the street, when the mastication with gums instead of teeth is low, and he shall start at the voice of the bird, and all the songs shall be brought low;
5, Also when they shall be afraid of ascending heights, and apprehensions of danger in journeying, and the gray hairs shall grow scanty, or drop off, and the locust shall become burdensome, and desire shall fail: (because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the street
6, Or ever the spinal cord be loosed, or the skull be broken, or failure of the heart, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7, Then shall the body which is made of dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
8, Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.
9, And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the People knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.
10, The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.
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Old 04-11-2019, 12:54 PM
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Default Re: Rom 5:14 Reads ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamdan View Post
I am curious what bible you are reading and why you don't, when you have questions go to the interlinear and translate back to the original language with auth KJV.
That's the problem we get with different versions and a pluralistic culture and pluralistic church mindset. What was once inspired by the Holy Spirit is now rewritten by men to compensate for majority of blended culture thinking.

auth KJV from the The Companion Bible-

19, But there was a certain rich man, which was habitually clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared in splendour every day:
20, And there was a certain poor man named Lazarus, which was cast down at his gate, full of sores,
21, And eagerly desiring to be fed from the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: but instead of finding food even the dogs came and licked off his ulcers.
22, And it came to pass, that the poor man died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23, And in Hades he having lifted up his eyes, being there in torments, and seeth Abraham from afar, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24, And crying out, he said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am distressed in this flame.
25, But Abraham said, Child, remember that thou in thy life had all thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art distressed.
26, And beside all this, between us and you there has been a great chasm established: so that they which desire to pass from hence to you are not able; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27, Then he said, I entreat thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him unto my father's house:
28, For I have five brethren; that he may earnestly testify unto them, that they also may not come into this place of distress.
29, Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30, And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them away from dead people, they will repent.
31, And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, not even if one rose from among dead people."

Jesus is explaining, at death we enter another dimension, that there is a great divide between the light and dark, those who die in Christ and those who dont at death, a gulf. while those who die are able to see what they miss out on while waiting for that great white throne judgement, a part of their torment, but there is no second chance, no one can see or hear them, (so-close and yet so far) and those on the other side are not aware how near or that they even exist, they are blotted out.

Where did the souls go in OT?
Back to God who gave them

Ecclesiastes 12:
1, Remember also the great Creator in the days of thy youth, while the days of affliction and death come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;
2, While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain:
3, In the day when arms of the body shall tremble, and the legs shall bow themselves, and the teeth become unfit for use because they are few, and the eyes [that look out of the eyelids] be dimmed,
4, And the mouth and ears shall be shut in the street, when the mastication with gums instead of teeth is low, and he shall start at the voice of the bird, and all the songs shall be brought low;
5, Also when they shall be afraid of ascending heights, and apprehensions of danger in journeying, and the gray hairs shall grow scanty, or drop off, and the locust shall become burdensome, and desire shall fail: (because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the street
6, Or ever the spinal cord be loosed, or the skull be broken, or failure of the heart, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7, Then shall the body which is made of dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
8, Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.
9, And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the People knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.
10, The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.

Hi and what I wrote was taken from the KJV as was Luke 16:19-26 !!

We also see that Israel's resurrection at the end of the GREAT TRIBULATION they will come from the East and the WEST and shall sit down with Abraham , Isaac and Jacob in the Kingdom of Heaven which is the 1000 YEAR REIGN of CHRIST !!

Israel's resurrection is different from the BODY OF CHRIST and when we die we are at HOME with the Lord , 1 Cor 5:6-9 and 1 Thess 4:13-18 !!

I do have many of Bullingers books , also , but no Companion bible !!

dan p
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Old 04-11-2019, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: Rom 5:14 Reads ??

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Originally Posted by danp View Post
Hi and what I wrote was taken from the KJV as was Luke 16:19-26 !!



I do have many of Bullingers books , also , but no Companion bible !!

dan p
Even the Bullingers Companion Bible is not without issues these days. I am fortunate to have an earlier edition, 1999, but expect to pay dearly for a hard copy. I think I paid well over a couple hundred years ago. The newer have been altered. There is one E bible software that I have (Bible anaylizer) with the companion bible and Appendixes. It actually use to be the original but it has been updated and reads closer to the NKJV now, but the Appendixes read correct.

Whats unique is Bullinger and Ginsberg who wrote this, had access to the actual Transcripts, Massorah and every conclusion is backed with the notes, images or explanations. Makes for easier study.
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Rom 5:14 Reads ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by danp View Post
Hi and Rom 5:14 reads , But death reigned from Adam until Moses , even over the ones not having sinned after the likeness of the transgressions of Adam , who is a PATTERN OF THE COMING ONE !!

#1 , And when one died where did His SOUL GO ?
The Spirit returns to God who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the body which is made of dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by danp View Post
#2 , How was ADAM and those that died after Adam , HOW WERE THEY SAVED ??
They weren't saved as we know Salvation to be, Salvation was not available to anyone before the Sacrifice of Jesus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danp View Post
#3 If there is only ONE GOSPEL , what is that GOSPEL CALLED ??
The Gospel of the Kingdom.

Jesus own words determine what the Gospel is.

Mat. 24:14*
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mark 16:15*
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mark 1:14,15
14) Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15)* And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Mat. 4:23* And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Mat. 9:35*
And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.



Quote:
Originally Posted by danp View Post
#4 What does it meas , NOT SINNED AFTER THE LIKENESS , MEAN ??
Did not commit the same sin, (Eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil)

JIM
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Old 04-18-2019, 04:19 PM
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Default Re: Rom 5:14 Reads ??

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Originally Posted by Lookinforacity View Post
The Spirit returns to God who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the body which is made of dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.




They weren't saved as we know Salvation to be, Salvation was not available to anyone before the Sacrifice of Jesus.



The Gospel of the Kingdom.

Jesus own words determine what the Gospel is.

Mat. 24:14*
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mark 16:15*
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mark 1:14,15
14) Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15)* And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Mat. 4:23* And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

Mat. 9:35*
And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.





Did not commit the same sin, (Eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil)

JIM
Hi ans Eccl 12:7 is true and what Gospel was than preached to those from Adam to Moses and how were they saved is the question ??

From Heb 11 , they were saved by FAITH !!

How do you see it ??

dan p
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Old 04-18-2019, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: Rom 5:14 Reads ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by danp View Post
Hi ans Eccl 12:7 is true and what Gospel was than preached to those from Adam to Moses and how were they saved is the question ??

From Heb 11 , they were saved by FAITH !!

How do you see it ??

dan p
Hi
As I see it, there are a number of things you are assuming.

1) There was a Gospel.
2) There was someone Preaching said Gospel.
3) Those before Christ were Saved

Heb. 11:13
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.


JIM
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: Rom 5:14 Reads ??

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Originally Posted by Lookinforacity View Post
Hi
As I see it, there are a number of things you are assuming.

1) There was a Gospel.
2) There was someone Preaching said Gospel.
3) Those before Christ were Saved

Heb. 11:13
These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.


JIM

Hi and I believe that the answer to Rom 5:14 is Gen 3:21 , so what say you ?

dan p
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