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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > The Assumption Of The Blessed Virgin

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Old 03-21-2018, 07:16 AM
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The doctrine of the Assumption says that at the end of her life Mary was assumed, body and soul, into heaven, just as Enoch, Elijah, and perhaps others had been before her. Itís also necessary to keep in mind what the Assumption is not. Some people think Catholics believe Mary "ascended" into heaven. Thatís not correct. Christ, by his own power, ascended into heaven. Mary was assumed or taken up into heaven by God. She didnít do it under her own power.

The Church has never formally defined whether she died or not, but the almost universal consensus is that she did die. Pope Pius XII, in Munificentissimus Deus (1950), defined that Mary, "after the completion of her earthly life" (note the silence regarding her death), "was assumed body and soul into the glory of heaven."

The possibility of a bodily assumption before the Second Coming is suggested by Matt 27:52Ė53: "the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many." Did all these Old Testament saints die and have to be buried all over again? There is no record of that, but it is recorded by early Church writers that they were assumed into heaven, or at least into that temporary state of rest and happiness often called "paradise," where the righteous people from the Old Testament era waited until Christís resurrection (cf. Luke 16:22, 23:43; Heb. 11:1Ė40; 1 Pet. 4:6), after which they were brought into the eternal bliss of heaven.

There is also what might be called the negative historical proof for Maryís Assumption. It is easy to document that, from the first, Christians gave homage to saints, including many about whom we now know little or nothing. Cities vied for the title of the last resting place of the most famous saints. Rome, for example, houses the tombs of Peter and Paul, Peterís tomb being under the high altar of St. Peterís Basilica in Rome. In the early Christian centuries relics of saints were zealously guarded and highly prized. The bones of those martyred in the Coliseum, for instance, were quickly gathered up and preservedóthere are many accounts of this in the biographies of those who gave their lives for the faith.

It is agreed upon that Mary ended her life in Jerusalem, or perhaps in Ephesus. However, neither those cities nor any other claimed her remains, though there are claims about possessing her (temporary) tomb. And why did no city claim the bones of Mary? Apparently because there werenít any bones to claim, and people knew it. Here was Mary, certainly the most privileged of all the saints, certainly the most saintly, but we have no record of her bodily remains being venerated anywhere.



Since the Assumption is not explicit in Scripture, Fundamentalists conclude that the doctrines are false. Here, of course, we get into an entirely separate matter, the question of sola scriptura -the "Bible only" theory. I don't want to consider that idea here. Let it just be said that if the position of the Catholic Church is true, then the notion of sola scriptura is false. There is then no problem with the Church officially defining a doctrine which is not explicitly in Scripture, so long as it is not in contradiction to Scripture.
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:36 AM
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Old 11-29-2018, 06:32 AM
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Default Re: The Assumption Of The Blessed Virgin

re: "There is then no problem with the Church officially defining a doctrine which is not explicitly in Scripture, so long as it is not in contradiction to Scripture."

Why do you suppose that none of the New Testament writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit to include any of those doctrines in their writings regarding Mary if she is intended to be such a vital part of the Roman/Latin Rite Catholic religion?
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Old 11-29-2018, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: The Assumption Of The Blessed Virgin

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
re: "There is then no problem with the Church officially defining a doctrine which is not explicitly in Scripture, so long as it is not in contradiction to Scripture."

Why do you suppose that none of the New Testament writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit to include any of those doctrines in their writings regarding Mary if she is intended to be such a vital part of the Roman/Latin Rite Catholic religion?
Actually, the assumption of Mary can be alluded in the New Testament. In Revelations 11:19, John saw the Ark of the Covenant in God's temple: "Then Godís temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within in his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, loud noises, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail."

Some will say that this temple in Heaven is made of brick and mortar like the temple in the Old Testament. But John was seeing the true temple, which is Christís Body. In the New Testament, the word "temple" was referred to as the body. John 2:19-21 and Rev. 21:22 tell us very plainly that the temple John speaks of is not a temple made of brick and mortar.

Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up."....But He spoke of the temple of His body (John 2:21)

I saw no temple [in heaven], for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the lamb (Revelations 21:22)

Therefore, John was not saying that he saw a temple building. He saw Christís Body. And he also said that he saw the Ark of Covenant in that temple. In Revelations 11:19, John saw Mary in heaven because Mary was the new Ark of Covenant.
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Old 11-30-2018, 05:57 AM
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Arrow Re: The Assumption Of The Blessed Virgin

Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrats View Post
re: "There is then no problem with the Church officially defining a doctrine which is not explicitly in Scripture, so long as it is not in contradiction to Scripture."

Why do you suppose that none of the New Testament writers were inspired by the Holy Spirit to include any of those doctrines in their writings regarding Mary if she is intended to be such a vital part of the Roman/Latin Rite Catholic religion?
Probably because the were trying to deal with he BIG issues, about Jesus, his death and resurrection, and salvation. Plus, Mary did not pass until years after all that. But it is alluded to in the last book written, Revelation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selene View Post
Actually, the assumption of Mary can be alluded in the New Testament. In Revelations 11:19, John saw the Ark of the Covenant in God's temple: "Then Godís temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within in his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, loud noises, peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail."

Some will say that this temple in Heaven is made of brick and mortar like the temple in the Old Testament. But John was seeing the true temple, which is Christís Body. In the New Testament, the word "temple" was referred to as the body. John 2:19-21 and Rev. 21:22 tell us very plainly that the temple John speaks of is not a temple made of brick and mortar.

Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up."....But He spoke of the temple of His body (John 2:21)

I saw no temple [in heaven], for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the lamb (Revelations 21:22)

Therefore, John was not saying that he saw a temple building. He saw Christís Body. And he also said that he saw the Ark of Covenant in that temple. In Revelations 11:19, John saw Mary in heaven because Mary was the new Ark of Covenant.
Excellent!
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Old 11-30-2018, 08:03 AM
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Default Re: The Assumption Of The Blessed Virgin

Selene,
re: "Actually, the assumption of Mary can be alluded in the New Testament."

Your Revelation references do not address the assumption of Mary at the end of her earthly life. They deal with events that are at least 2000 years after that time.


I do have a couple of comments, though, with regard to what you have written.

re: "I saw no temple [in heaven], for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the lamb (Revelations 21:22)"

The verse is not referring to a temple in heaven. It is referring to the New Jersusalem; Rev. 11:10 - "And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven...". Rev. 21:22 then has John saying that he saw no temple in it, with "it" referring to the New Jerusalem and not to heaven.




re: "Therefore, John was not saying that he saw a temple building."

That is true with regard to the New Jerusalem. But nothing is said with regard to not seeing a temple building in heaven. And that is the location for Rev. 11:19. "...the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple."


BTW, any particular reason for adding an "s" at the end of Revelation?

Last edited by rstrats : 11-30-2018 at 08:06 AM.
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Old 11-30-2018, 08:17 AM
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Default Re: The Assumption Of The Blessed Virgin

Dear Rstrats,

John made it clear that the temple he saw was Christís Body. Itís right there in Revelation 21:22.

Revelation 21:22 I saw no temple [in heaven], for its temple is the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb.

Scripture identified the temple as the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb. Therefore, it stands to reason that John was also referring to the new Ark of Covenant, not the one in the Old Testament. The new Ark of the Covenant was Mary. John saw Mary in Heaven.
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Old 11-30-2018, 10:04 AM
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Default Re: The Assumption Of The Blessed Virgin

Selene,
re: "John made it clear that the temple he saw was Christ’s Body. It’s right there in Revelation 21:22."

Not only the Messiah but the Father also. There was no temple building in the New Jerusalem because the Father and the Son were fullfilling the purpose of the temple.




re: "Scripture identified the temple as the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb. Therefore, it stands to reason that John was also referring to the new Ark of Covenant, not the one in the Old Testament. The new Ark of the Covenant was Mary."


I'm not aware of any scripture that refers to the Ark of the Covenant as being new, much less that it was Mary. What do you have in mind?
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Old 11-30-2018, 10:44 AM
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Default Re: The Assumption Of The Blessed Virgin

Rstrats, the Ark of the Covenant is a type of the Old Testament that foreshadows the person of Mary. In other words, there are many parallels between Mary and the Ark of the Covenant:

1. Old Testament: The glory cloud of the Lord covered the tent meeting where the Ark of the Covenant was and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle (Exodus 40:34-35; Numbers 9:18, 22) . The verb "to cover" or "to overshadow" and the metaphor of a cloud are used in the Bible to represent the presence and glory of God. In short, the Holy Spirit overshadowed the Ark.

New Testament: Mary was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35)

2. Old Testament: David brought the Ark of the Covenant to the hill country of Judah for three months (2 Samuel 6:1-11)

New Testament: Mary went to the hill country of Judah for three months (Luke 1:29).

3. Old Testament: David said to the Ark, "How can the Ark of the Lord come to me?" (2 Samuel 6:9)

New Testament: Elizabeth said to Mary, " But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? (Luke 1:43).

4. Old Testament: David leaped for joy and danced before the Ark of the covenant (2 Samuel 6:14-15).

New Testament: Upon hearing Mary's arrival, St. John the Baptist leaped with joy in his mother's womb (Luke 1:41).

5. Old Testament: The ark returns to its home and ends up in Jerusalem, where God’s presence and glory is revealed in the temple (2 Sm 6:12; 1 Kgs 8:9-11).

New Testament: Mary returns home and eventually ends up in Jerusalem, where she presents God incarnate in the temple (Lk 1:56; 2:21-22).

6. Old Testament: Inside the Ark was placed a golden jar holding the manna (the bread come down from Heaven), Aaron’s rod that budded (a symbol of the high priest), and the word of God inscribed on stone tablets (cf. Heb 9:4).

New Testament: Inside the womb of Mary contains Jesus, the bread of life come down from Heaven (John 6:51), the actual and eternal high priest (Hebrews 9:11), and the Word of God in the flesh (John 1:14).

This parallel between Mary and the Ark of the Covenant is unmistakable. Therefore, Mary is the NEW Ark of the Covenant of the New Testament. In the Old Testament, God came and dwelled inside the Ark of the Covenant among His people. In the New Testament, God came and dwelled in the womb of Mary. Mary was the new Ark of the Covenant.
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Old 11-30-2018, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: The Assumption Of The Blessed Virgin

Not everyone knows what Typology is. Typology
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