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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Who is our Mother

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  #11  
Old 08-01-2020, 10:24 AM
CatholicCrusader's Avatar
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Arrow Re: Who is our Mother

Quote:
Originally Posted by pryz View Post
Nope, the obedience is in a continuous shamble. Maybe you could direct the item out specifically as I did and not in bulk deflection as you did. If you are able?
.
Your anti-Catholic prejudice and bias is forcing you to argue the inarguable. That is what the poison of your type of self-righteousness and personal pride does to a person; it forces them into a corner to try to you against truth.

You don't seem to understand that the family of God is of the spirit and not of the flesh. Before Jesus Christ came, the Family of God was of the flesh, the people of Abraham, descendants of the 12 fathers of the 12 tribes, bound by blood and family.

When Jesus instituted the sixth and final Covenant, he invited all people in and made the family bond a bond of spirit and not flesh. That is why Christians call each other brother and sister, that is why we call god Father.

The missing piece that you cannot grasp because of your bigotry and prejudice is that we also called Mary Mother, in the spirit, just as God is Father and Christians are brothers and sisters, in the Spirit.

As I said in my original post that you attacked: "As an adopted son of the Father, the Blessed Virgin is my spiritual mother. Jesus is a spiritual brother (in addition to being Lord and Savior)."

There was no reason to attack that simple truth other than your blind bigotry.

I am sorry that you cannot grasp simple Christian truth, but that's what happens when you make yourself your own Pope and you believe that your personal interpretation of scriptures trumps 2,000 years of Christian truth.

And by the way, there is one other thing that you have blinded yourself to because of your bigotry: These things I say are not just Catholic beliefs, they are the beliefs of all Christians, traditional Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox, Coptics, and Catholics too.... .... in other words, all of the great apostolic faiths that reach back 2,000. The only Christians who do NOT believe these things are that tiny little percentage of protestants that you fall into, who because of prejudice and pride place their own personal interpretations above the great Apostolic Faith.

I have no intent and I have no need to prove anything to you.
The things I believe are found in authentic Christianity.
What you believe in is The Gospel According to Pryz, as interpreted by Pope Pryz the First in his church of One.
__________________

"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II

Last edited by CatholicCrusader : 08-01-2020 at 06:36 PM.
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  #12  
Old 08-01-2020, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: Who is our Mother

Lets go back to the OP

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamdan View Post
. . . God commands that we honor our mothers and fathers Ephesians 6:1-3 . . .
We can say that Jesus followed this commandment perfectly because he WAS Jesus. We can also say that we are called to imitate Christ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamdan View Post
Luke 8:19-21 (KJV)
19 Then came to him his mother and his brethren, and could not come at him for the press.
His actual Mother and Brothers try to approach him
20 And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee. And he was told that his actual Mother and Brethren try and approach him
21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it. And he answers whom he considers are Mother and brethren.
The scripture passages : Matt 12:46-50, Mk 3:32-35, Lk 11:27-28 all say “who are my brothers and mother” or “Whoever does the will of The Father is my brother and mother.” These passages are often quickly used by protestants to attempt to shake the Catholic’s faith and lead him away from the truth. Therefore many Catholics feel a bit uncomfortable with these verses when Protestants bring them up.

There is no reason to feel uncomfortable. These verses should be welcomed into discussion anytime. They more than most highlight the Blessed Mother’s holiness and the full force of the New Covenant! I will attempt a brief illustration.

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but by me. If you had known me, you would know my Father also; henceforth you know him and have seen him."
Jn 14:6-7

If a man loves me he will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.
Jn 14-23-24

I do as the Father has commanded me, so the world may know that I love the Father.
Jn 14:31

The last three verses give a great picture of the identity of the speaker in question in these verses.

"Who is my mother and who are my brethren?"
Mt 12:48

This statement is bringing the reality of his eternal family into question.

"Here are my mother and my brethren! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother, and sister, and mother."
Mt 12:49-50

Those who do the will of God will be his brethren. Theywill in a sense be unified with the Blessed Mother in doing the will of the Father, and with him in doing that same will.

"Blessed is the womb that bore you!"
Lk 11:12

This is a statement giving honor to Mary just because she is his mother. This is very similar to most protestant positions on the matter today.

"Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it."
Lk 11:28

In other words Mary is blessed because she did the will of God by hearing, accepting, submitting. It was a choice she made to obey the will of God. Others are blessed when they do the will of God likewise. All these things come from the grace of God.

And Mary said, "Behold I am the handmaid of the Lord; let it be to me according to your word."
Lk 1:38

And Mary said, " My soul magnifies the Lord and my spirit rejoices in God my savior for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed; For he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name.
Lk 1:46-49

From the depths of her sould she reflects the Lord. She rejoices in God her Savior who from the time of her conception had redeemed her by his own special will so that she may be full of His grace. Therefore she would not be stained by original sin. It would be an abomination for the Lord to be housed in sin. We know she was full of Grace because of the words of the Arch-Angel Gabriel.

"Hail full of grace, the Lord is with you."
Lk 1:28

And the words of the mother of John the Baptist:

"Blessed are you amoung women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!"
Lk 1:42


For to you is born this day in the city of David a savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Lk 2:11

We got a clear picture from the first three verses quoted who we were dealing with so the purity of the path in which he came into the world must not be questioned. Mary is a perpetual virgin.

This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; For the Lord, The God of Israel, has entered by it; Therefore it shall remain shut.
Ezek 44:2

She is full of grace as stated by the angel. So it is logical that God would give her the grace of protection.

For with God nothing will be impossible.
Lk 1:37

"Who are my mother and my brethren?"
Mk 3:33

"Whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother sister and mother."
Mt 12:49-50

For he who sanctifies and those who are sanctified have all one origin. That is why he is not ashamed to call them brethren; saying, I will proclaim thy name to my brethren in the midst of the congregation I will praise thee.
Heb 2:11-12

When the time had fully come, God sent forth his son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might recieve adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent the spirit of his son into our hearts Crying Abba! Father! So through God you are no longer a slave but a son and if a son than an heir!
Gal 4:4-7

Glory to God in the highest!
Lk 2:14

Jesus is Lord of all. King of Kings. He points to the holiness of his mother, a gift he gave her that magnifies him. He illustrates in these verses in so few words that he is going to share his sonship with his Church, who does the will of his Father.

Blessed be God

Blessed be his Holy Name
__________________

"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II
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  #13  
Old 08-02-2020, 02:26 AM
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Default Re: Who is our Mother

I can understand why you would want to move on, for the Spirit spoke things to us to be reproduced to the ear for the building up in faith. But it is frightening, how low you are on temperance of it. How you can provide no less than eight negative superlatives I am guilty of from one solitary question, gives us an indication that you feel it isn’t acceptable to reason in the scriptures at all if it is contrary to tradition, and I’m the one blinded?

Yet you finally squeak out your response to that obedience the Master (not I) called us into,
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
"Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it."
Lk 11:28

In other words Mary is blessed because she did the will of God by hearing, accepting, submitting. It was a choice she made to obey the will of God. Others are blessed when they do the will of God likewise. All these things come from the grace of God
.
But isn’t that slightly out of context? What was Jesus saying “rather” to?
As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you."

(Luke 11:27)
The answer I sought with the Matthew 12:49-50 reference to her “submitting” as you put it was still passed over. Well, though it did not say at that point any of them submitted, thank God in the long run, they did continue with Him. Blindness wishes to lead us to believe Mary and the others did not garner the Lord’s rebuke.

To refuse the rebuke isn’t at all savvy to what the Spirit provided in the text.

.
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  #14  
Old 08-02-2020, 08:40 AM
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Default Re: Who is our Mother

Quote:
Originally Posted by pryz View Post
. . . you finally squeak out your response. . . .
Post #12 is hardly a "squeak". You have great difficulty with truth and honesty.

Post #11 you ignored. I understand why: The truth hurts doesn't it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
I have no intent and I have no need to prove anything to you.
The things I believe are found in authentic Christianity.
What you believe in is The Gospel According to Pryz, as interpreted by Pope Pryz the First in his church of One.
__________________

"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II
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  #15  
Old 08-02-2020, 08:47 AM
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Default Re: Who is our Mother

Tim Staples - Talk about Mary

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"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II
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  #16  
Old 08-02-2020, 08:48 AM
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Default Re: Who is our Mother

"behold your mother" - Jesus Christ

I do. Do you?
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"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II
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  #17  
Old 08-02-2020, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: Who is our Mother

__________________

"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II
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  #18  
Old Yesterday, 03:56 AM
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Default Re: Who is our Mother

Could my suspicion prove true? That we now have two blanket refusals. One, to ignore Jesus’ instruction of who carries the spiritual identity of ‘mother”, but now also, a refusal to admit there was ever a rebuke at all!

Anyone else sound on the later interested in showing me specifically how the rebuke and the biological succumb to the biological elevation from God? Clearly, you must see my perplexities don’t you? I am interested in seeing that one specific exception to Jesus’ statement on who his spiritual “mother” is.

I probably missed it there in one of CC’s posts. I never claimed perfection and would be delighted to discover I did. There is so much content, wherein we only need one precise example where the precept Jesus taught bows out.

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  #19  
Old Yesterday, 10:34 AM
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Default Re: Who is our Mother

Quote:
Originally Posted by pryz View Post
Could my suspicion prove true?
Doubtful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pryz View Post
That we now have two blanket refusals
Another lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pryz View Post
two blanket refusals. One, to ignore Jesus’ instruction of who carries the spiritual identity of ‘mother”
There is no instruction there. He is making a spiritual point.
And for the billionth time, pulling one verse out of context and thinking you can use it to negate all other verses not to mention 2,000 years of Christian teaching is just plain scriptural malfeasance.

Jesus said the the disciple he loved, "Behold your mother." We accept her as he asked us to do from the cross. YOU are the one refusing his instruction, not us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pryz View Post
two blanket refusals........a refusal to admit there was ever a rebuke at all!
It was not a rebuke. That is only your erroneous false interpretation.

But you don't care. The preponderance of scriptures disagrees with you, Christian tradition disagrees with you, the great early councils and saints disagree with you, and most Christians alive today disagree with you, but none of that matters to Pope Pryz I as he teaches us all about the Gospel According to Pryz, as interpreted by Pryz, a wholly owned subsidiary of Pryzco LLC, patent pending.
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"God in his deepest mystery is not a solitude but a family, since he has in himself fatherhood, sonship and the essence of the family which is love"
- Saint Pope John Paul II
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  #20  
Old Yesterday, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: Who is our Mother

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatholicCrusader View Post
Jesus said the the disciple he loved, "Behold your mother." We accept her as he asked us to do from the cross. YOU are the one refusing his instruction, not us.
That’s it? Goodness! Thought you would have picked up on why I didn’t qualify that the first time, thinking, you can’t be serious? You don’t mean to tell me “Behold your mother” outweighs the true spiritual mother Jesus taught the Church of?

Ya-know, you speak as though my posts are lurid, random, cherry-pick attacks. If so, you wouldn’t have such difficulty citing the text, because you could easily have brought this to rest upon my first request, but no, just more insistence upon what man hath brought forth, and what is that, a defenseless inflation of mind that has been groomed to cover God’s truth. A dangerous prospect.

But its just more deflection. But if there is a “preponderance of scripture” as you say that shows my error, well, its long past time again, its now quite clear on this also, you are incapable to bring forth proof to elevate the virgin mother over her constituent, spiritual “mother”. Unlikely!

Otherwise, no more deflections of history’s deception, please. If you must persist in deflection, the same glossing the scripture will also continue and no matter how well crafted the conclusion, it is still void of scriptural merit and not worth the time of day except for these corrections. Glory to God!

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