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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > What does 'us' imply.

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  #1  
Old 03-15-2016, 02:44 AM
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Default What does 'us' imply.

Genesis 11:5-7
5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
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  #2  
Old 03-15-2016, 04:00 AM
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Default Re: What does 'us' imply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
Genesis 11:5-7
5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
It is known to imply the trinity.
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Old 03-15-2016, 03:17 PM
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Default Re: What does 'us' imply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinderAsh View Post
It is known to imply the trinity.
Thanks CinderAsh.

So the Lord speaks as if each part of Self/I am is also an individual.
Much like we could say to ourselves "Come, let us go to church". The us being body, soul, and Holy Spirit.

Imagine speaking like that to ourselves. We would surely be more conscious of our True nature. Instead of only thinking we are a human being with a spirit, we will think we are a spirit having a human experience. Everything we say and do will be according to a spiritual reference as opposed to a human reference.

I am sure Jesus Christ came down to show us how to reference life from the spiritual, for our salvation relies on it (the way, the truth, and the life).
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Old 03-21-2016, 02:18 AM
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Default Re: What does 'us' imply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
Thanks CinderAsh.

So the Lord speaks as if each part of Self/I am is also an individual.
Much like we could say to ourselves "Come, let us go to church". The us being body, soul, and Holy Spirit.
We should add our shadow. The less light we have the greater the shadow we cast. Mankind casts a great shadow with much darkness in our history and present and assuredly in the future when the end times prevail.

Quote:
Imagine speaking like that to ourselves. We would surely be more conscious of our True nature. Instead of only thinking we are a human being with a spirit, we will think we are a spirit having a human experience. Everything we say and do will be according to a spiritual reference as opposed to a human reference.

I am sure Jesus Christ came down to show us how to reference life from the spiritual, for our salvation relies on it (the way, the truth, and the life).
Yes but I wouldn't get too carried away with verbal expression as relatives, friends and acquaintances might suggest medication is required.

21 When his family[b] heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”

22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebul!”
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Old 03-21-2016, 10:52 AM
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Default Re: What does 'us' imply.

It refers to more than one of course. Implications and assumptions can lead "us" to error, and once the error taught to others, lead to sin.
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Knowledge and Wisdom are both good and worth finding, but they also have truly bad downsides, just study the life of Solomon to see the truth of this. Love does not puff up. Perfect Love drives out pride. Faith, Hope, and Love are the greatest of all things we can strive for, and the greatest of these are Love. Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with ALL your heart and lean NOT on your own understanding. In all your ways aknowledge Him and He shall direct your paths.
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Old 03-21-2016, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: What does 'us' imply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
Genesis 11:5-7
5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
.

While what you say does sound reasonable, logical.
It must be understood, the Bible was not written in English, therefore we must understand, the words used such as "US" do not appear in the original text, while in the Hebrew, the word "WE" is used in that particular verse.


Question?
Does God go and do, or does God have others (Angels) go and do for Him, yet it is said God did this or that?
Did God Himself, actually go down and confuse their language, or could it have been Angels?
Do we assume, because the word Lord is used, it automatically refers to God Himself physically doing something?

Gen 11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
Gen 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
Gen 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
Gen 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
Gen 11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.


Read this story, and determine who Abraham is speaking to.
Is it the Lord = God?
Is it three Angels?
Is this another case of the word Lord being used, when it was Angels doing the work?

Gen 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
Gen 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
Gen 18:3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
Gen 18:4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
Gen 18:5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
Gen 18:6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
Gen 18:7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
Gen 18:8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
Gen 18:9 And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.
Gen 18:10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.
Gen 18:11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.
Gen 18:12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
Gen 18:13 And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
Gen 18:14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.
Gen 18:15 Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not; for she was afraid. And he said, Nay; but thou didst laugh.
Gen 18:16 And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.
Gen 18:17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
Gen 18:18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
Gen 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
Gen 18:22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
Gen 18:23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
Gen 18:24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
Gen 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
Gen 18:26 And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
Gen 18:27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:
Gen 18:28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
Gen 18:29 And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.
Gen 18:30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
Gen 18:31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
Gen 18:32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
Gen 18:33 And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.

In conclusion, I cannot accept God in the form of the Trinity went down and confused the language of mankind.
But I can accept it to have been Angels.

One last thing, in Gen. 11:7 it says (Go to,) what is that remark in reference to, what does it mean?
Look in a PDF Hebrew Interlinear Bible and see what it says.

JIM

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Old 03-21-2016, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: What does 'us' imply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CinderAsh View Post
...Yes but I wouldn't get too carried away with verbal expression as relatives, friends and acquaintances might suggest medication is required.

21 When his family[b] heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”

22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebul!”
Ha ha. I am not worried about such things. I understand how most people make judgments of 'out of the ordinary (sane?) behaviors'. Many wars have started from such things. But strangely, in comparison to a spiritual reference (Truth and sanity) the worldly reference appears to be untrue and insane/deluded (forgive them for they not know what they are doing). Besides, I have a degree (B Hlh Sc [rehab couns]) in counselling and have practiced it for over twenty years.
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Old 03-21-2016, 10:42 PM
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Default Re: What does 'us' imply.

Thanks Jim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookinforacity View Post
...In conclusion, I cannot accept God in the form of the Trinity went down and confused the language of mankind.
But I can accept it to have been Angels...
Some say that Angels did not have that sort of power to take away a person's language.

In Genesis chapter 10 is a large list of genealogy and the various languages spoken. Then in chapter 11 is the story of Babel where people, from all languages, started to speak the same language. The God decided to take their language away from them to their original languages and everybody spoke differently to each other. Each could no longer understand the other. The Holy Spirit took away their common language.

Then in Acts 2:4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. the Holy Spirit gave it back so all languages could understand what the other was saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookinforacity View Post
.

...One last thing, in Gen. 11:7 it says (Go to,) what is that remark in reference to, what does it mean?
Look in a PDF Hebrew Interlinear Bible and see what it says.
Come on. Now. Give help.
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  #9  
Old 03-22-2016, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: What does 'us' imply.

.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
Some say that Angels did not have that sort of power to take away a person's language.
Some say a person does not have the power to pray for the healing of another person, does that make it so?
If and only if Angels were given the (Ability, Power) by God to change a persons language.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
In Genesis chapter 10 is a large list of genealogy and the various languages spoken.
Are you of the belief, all of the people and languages listed in Gon. 10 were before the language was confused?

My belief is, Gen.10 is a synopsis of those peoples after the confusion of their "ONE" language.
A listing so to speak of where those particular peoples ended up.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post

Then in chapter 11 is the story of Babel where people, from all languages, started to speak the same language. The God decided to take their language away from them to their original languages and everybody spoke differently to each other. Each could no longer understand the other. The Holy Spirit took away their common language.
Again, my belief is, the "ONE" language the people spoke was the same language which began with Adam, and proceeded down to Noah, Shem ,Ham, and Japheth and onward to their children until the confusion of the "ONE" common language.

JIM

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  #10  
Old 03-23-2016, 02:25 AM
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Default Re: What does 'us' imply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookinforacity View Post
.
...My belief is, Gen.10 is a synopsis of those peoples after the confusion of their "ONE" language.
A listing so to speak of where those particular peoples ended up.

[/size]
I find it strange that chapter 10 is the result of chapter 11. If that were true then you would think that the bible be written in the correct order (chp 11 should be chp 10 and visa versa).

I am sorry Jim, but I cannot, with good conscience, agree with your beliefs.
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