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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > What is the truth?

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  #1  
Old 01-23-2016, 04:47 PM
Peter's Avatar
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Default What is the truth?

This question has caused lots of problems for most people - even for many Christians. It is a question which satan does not want us to know or contemplate on.

It would not surprise me if this thread will quickly be inundated with minds from a worldly reference, as opposed from a divinely reference. The worldly referenced will aim to prove a truth that veils (cover-story) the divine truth (The Greater Reality). The worldly referenced do this because they fear what the other reference will do to them.

A person who experiences both worldly and divinely knowledge 'knows' which is the greater truth and reality. Divinity comes from a higher plain of understanding which is so clear from doubtlessness. The conviction is solid and understood as the Greater Reality.

The person who denies divinity already knows the truth, that is why they deny it. For the truth would set them free of all their hard earned worldly knowledge, time and money to gain, claim and invest for boasting their false ego-self.
As Jesus said, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God." [Mark 10:25]. Rich means what someone has gained, claimed, and invested for validating self worth. That also includes intellectual property.

Jesus Christ's reference point was always from the divine. His teachings were to help us change reference points from worldly to divinely.

Similarly, as a dog trainer, training dogs was easy. The hardest part is to train the dog owners. I had to teach them to stop expecting their dog to think like a human and for them to start thinking like a dog. Once that transition happened, all fell into place. God/Jesus already knew how we think, and they knew if we make that transition, all truth will fall into place.

It is hoped that this thread will be more inline with discussing truths that come from a divine reference point. In this way, it will actually be a thread about 'what IS the truth' as oppose to 'what is true'. We already know what is true - the True Reality based on the Divine (the Source).

So what IS the truth? For starters, we can safely say that the truth opposes the worldly reference.

For instance, the worldly reference for experiencing love in one's life is to receive love. Their reference of experiencing love is what others show towards them, so they can claim it as their own. But that never really satisfies them, because they more than likely deceived the other through charming, to get their show of love. Therefore it was conditional and not genuine / unconditional.

Opposite to this, is from the divinely reference for experiencing love in one's life is to give love. Their reference of experiencing love is from within themselves, because the Spirit within IS love and True. It arises from within when the person stops seeking to gain, claim, and invest in love. They have forgotten that their True Self IS Love, and that they ARE love, and they don't need to get it from outside of themselves.

When a parent looks at their innocent newborn, and they show unconditional love for the baby, that love came from within. At that very moment they are filled with the Spirit, They are completely fulfilled, needing and wanting nothing else. They did not get love from the newborn, they experienced the love that is already within.

This worldly reference we are inundated with constantly covers the real truth if we pay attention to it. Changing reference points can be surprising and awkward for many, because they will start thinking they got it all back-to-front. This will imply that their whole past life reference, of a worldly kind, was just a fabrication of the mind, and a waste of time.

But wait. It is only a waste of time if one keeps denying the divinely reference.

What other truths can be found if we reference life from the divine point of view as Jesus has done?
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  #2  
Old 01-23-2016, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: What is the truth?

God is truth which is beyond our contemplation so therefore truth is mystery. But some truths can be revealed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post

Opposite to this, is from the divinely reference for experiencing love in one's life is to give love. Their reference of experiencing love is from within themselves, because the Spirit within IS love and True. It arises from within when the person stops seeking to gain, claim, and invest in love. They have forgotten that their True Self IS Love, and that they ARE love, and they don't need to get it from outside of themselves.
Although I understand your point I can't totally agree. True love is not from us but expressed through us and it does come from outside ourselves, from God, through our faith and love in Christ which also comes from God when the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are children of God.

Quote:
When a parent looks at their innocent newborn, and they show unconditional love for the baby, that love came from within. At that very moment they are filled with the Spirit, They are completely fulfilled, needing and wanting nothing else. They did not get love from the newborn, they experienced the love that is already within.
Oh geez it would seem you have minimised truth onto a worldly concept.

Matthew 10:37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Quote:
This worldly reference we are inundated with constantly covers the real truth if we pay attention to it. Changing reference points can be surprising and awkward for many, because they will start thinking they got it all back-to-front. This will imply that their whole past life reference, of a worldly kind, was just a fabrication of the mind, and a waste of time.

But wait. It is only a waste of time if one keeps denying the divinely reference.

What other truths can be found if we reference life from the divine point of view as Jesus has done?
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
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  #3  
Old 01-23-2016, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: What is the truth?

Thank you CinderAsh.
My words in blue
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinderAsh View Post
God is truth which is beyond our contemplation so therefore truth is mystery. But some truths can be revealed.
God is Truth (all truth)

Although I understand your point I can't totally agree. True love is not from us but expressed through us and it does come from outside ourselves, from God, through our faith and love in Christ which also comes from God when the Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are children of God.
I thought God was everywhere, and nowhere (like outside of us).

Oh geez it would seem you have minimised truth onto a worldly concept.

Matthew 10:37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Cannot somebody love Jesus Christ more and still love their newborn?

John 11:25-26
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; 26 and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

John 14:19-21
Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me.
Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”
continuing...
22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, "But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?"
23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My father will love him, and we will come to him. 24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
25 "All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."

John 16:16 "In a little while you will not see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me."

The Holy Spirit was soon given to those who believed.

John 17:25 "Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they (all believers) know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."
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  #4  
Old 01-25-2016, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: What is the truth?

John 17:17, "Thy word is truth" and since the Devil was the first liar and the originator of lying the dictionary definition "Like Satan" seems to indicate that one who is intentionally lying would be putting their own self in Satan's group. John 8:44 and Revelation 21:27 seem to also verify that liking or making lies will keep one from having God's approval for eternal life.
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  #5  
Old 01-28-2016, 05:49 AM
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Default Re: What is the truth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iLdoRight View Post
John 17:17, "Thy word is truth" and since the Devil was the first liar and the originator of lying the dictionary definition "Like Satan" seems to indicate that one who is intentionally lying would be putting their own self in Satan's group. John 8:44 and Revelation 21:27 seem to also verify that liking or making lies will keep one from having God's approval for eternal life.
John 17:17 [Jesus is praying to the Father for His Disciples. In this verse He said:] "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth."
You left out the vital truth of that verse. Truth being sanctified (free from sin) by God.
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Old 01-28-2016, 06:13 AM
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Default Re: What is the truth?

I believe another way to put this is who is truth. Let God be true and every man a liar. ( Romans 3:4). Jesus Christ is the truth. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. Their words are true.

We as men or man have different degrees of truth or perception or understanding of truth. The more truth we have the better, but more responsibilities yet more freedom.

ped
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Old 01-28-2016, 03:41 PM
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Default Re: What is the truth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElpidioLGagolinan View Post
I believe another way to put this is who is truth. Let God be true and every man a liar. ( Romans 3:4). Jesus Christ is the truth. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. Their words are true.
In other words, 'live and let live', if to "let... every man a liar".
The liar does not have to read the bible verses in this forum, or have to read a poster's understanding of a verse or a truth.
They can remain closed-hearted if they wish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElpidioLGagolinan View Post
We as men or man have different degrees of truth or perception or understanding of truth. The more truth we have the better, but more responsibilities yet more freedom.
I agree, 'the more truth the better.'
However, the "but more responsibilities yet more freedom", reads like a paradox. Jesus used paradoxes to reveal deeper truths, because one half of a paradox is back-to-front. In this case, I would say it is definition used for the word 'responsibilities'.

Truth ultimately reveals that we are totally responsible of our own thoughts and actions. True thoughts lead to true actions, and the soul and body become sinless. Also fearless. The ultimate freedom.

The part that makes it seem back-to-front is what else 'total responsibility' implies to our ego-self. It implies, no more denial, no more blaming, no more deceptions, no more cover-up stories to hide the truth (about the ego-self).

It is the ego-self that fears the word 'responsibilities' for it fears failure and loss of ego-energy (self-esteem). It also fear success, because it places more risks on further failure. It fears humility because it may expose its true self - a fake (a sinner).

Hope you do not mind ped.
The definition applied to the word responsibilities was censored by the ego. It applied its cover-up story to the word's truth. While the sentence was being typed out, the author knew there was something wrong, or back-to-front, but did not know why at the time, and put in the words 'but' and 'yet' into it to let others know that their statement is not clearly true.

What is difficult about truth is letting go of our ego-self, the worldly reference point.
Matthew 16:25 "If you try to hang on to your life, you will lose it. But if you give up your life for my sake (way, truth, life), you will save it."
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Old 01-28-2016, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: What is the truth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
John 17:17 [Jesus is praying to the Father for His Disciples. In this verse He said:] "Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth."
You left out the vital truth of that verse. Truth being sanctified (free from sin) by God.
.

You say.
"Truth being sanctified (free from sin) by God."

But how free is that free?

We are told by Jesus.
John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Is this being free indeed conditional, does it have qualifications with it?

JIM

.
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Old 01-28-2016, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: What is the truth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lookinforacity View Post
.

You say.
"Truth being sanctified (free from sin) by God."

But how free is that free?

We are told by Jesus.
John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Is this being free indeed conditional, does it have qualifications with it?

JIM
Freedom is Everything true and real. The price for Everything is everything.
Matthew 10:39 "Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake (way, truth, life) will find it."
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Old 01-28-2016, 05:21 PM
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Default Re: What is the truth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter View Post
Freedom is Everything true and real. The price for Everything is everything.
Matthew 10:39 "Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake (way, truth, life) will find it."
.

So, are we TRULY FREE INDEED from sin?

JIM

.
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