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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > The Problem with Theology

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  #1  
Old 09-01-2015, 10:24 AM
justabob's Avatar
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Default The Problem with Theology

I am a theologian. I have studied theology. My conclusion: theology is all wrong so far. As the bible warned about jobs and titles, that's all theology does.

The problem with theology is that while trying to teach the trinity it illuminates a possibility of a Trinitarian God.

Yes this is vague and controversial. On purpose. Is the another person out there who understands what I just said?
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Old 09-01-2015, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: The Problem with Theology

All I can say is that, strictly speaking, theology means "God's words" (Theos and logoi [words/precepts]--the latter pronounced logy in Greek). Thus, you can say "human interpretations of" are wrong, but are in dangerous territory of saying that theology is wrong.

The ancient Orthodox Christian services are simply a dialogue with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit from front to back. The Orthodox faithful need no theological statements, because their conversation with God in daily prayer at home or together is replete with unobscured theology, and this theology has nothing to do with "head knowledge," but a direct encounter of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
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  #3  
Old 09-01-2015, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: The Problem with Theology

^BTW, after just reading the hello post and Soulheart's words, I see exactly what you mean.
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  #4  
Old 09-02-2015, 09:13 AM
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Default Re: The Problem with Theology

Hello Fr. Harry, your intellectual prowess is one of the things I missed while away. Here is another instance where the very issue you bring up is part of the issue. Your definition of theology is not the standard definition as taught in American Seminaries. I have been taught that the suffix ology means study of and the prefix theo means God, the definition of theology thereby meaning the study of God.

Your higher level breakdown of the word meanings is one part of the problem. Not to say you specifically but the nature of theologians to try and be so precise is every minute detail of not only each word used but even each letter. Its exactly the jot and tittles the Bible warns of. so why is this a problem. It starts with one concept that has crept into church think. The doctrine of solascriptora.

The doctrine theorizes that because the Bible is the word of God, in its original scribe it can have no error. it is without fault. This is true, but theologians take it one step further and ignoring the very words in this document they hold so sacred they claim it is the only source of Gods revelation. By so doing they deny what the Bible teaches.

By so doing they have eliminated both spiritual revelation and natural revelation. It is my contention that the true understanding of what the Bible teaches can not be correct until all revelation is in place. The Bible is absolutely correct, but people will not see or hear it properly until all three forms of revelation align. Each form of revelation is the expression of God and therefore correct and without error. Only when definition used in interpretation can stand before each form of revelations without issue can it be a correct definition.

So why is it so important to align all three? That's simple yet complex. The simple answer is that this is how God designed the Bible to teach us. The complex part is that God chose this way because he is by his very nature a being outside of creation, and greatly beyond this creation trying to use a small part of this creation to explain something that is beyond its capability to do so. God did this brilliantly by creating a form that not only allows this transference of ideas but also helps to embody a an example of himself.

God used communication as a way to teach about who he is not only with words but in its very form. communication is itself trinitarian. no matter how you do it, in order to communicate three parts have to be present. First there has to be some physical form. words, symbols, sounds, touch are a small set of examples humans have used for this purpose. second there has to be an understanding of what those forms mean. this standardization has lead to the creation of language, road signs and such. But there is one last thing that must be applied for true communication to take place. That is the spiritual intent in the message. It is well know the exact same words can be said and the spirit in which they are said can determine different meanings.

as I was afraid it would this is getting long and I have only started. Forgive me I am not a writer. I will withdraw for now and review my thoughts and continue later. Please feel free to comment on the current progress.
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Last edited by justabob : 09-02-2015 at 09:14 AM. Reason: This thing does not like paragraph indentation
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Old 09-02-2015, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: The Problem with Theology

On this break I have to ask myself why am I doing this? This is incredibly complex for me to get organize meaningfully. Think of the old English dart board. a bull's-eye surrounded by rings in rows. The early church was centered on Jesus. After his death factions arose, I follow Paul and such. so instead of circles there are now dividing lines. more and more divisions and now the church looks more like the dart board. When I got married I had to take some useless test to see if my wife was right for me. It placed us according to where we stood on ideas. in the center was Bible doctrine. People could be like minded with out being close to being biblical but in essence the closer two people were to agreeing on the Bible the better off they were in marriage. This is the goal of Christlikeness. the more we become like Christ the less difference there should be. We should be one church, yet satan has been so effective in his efforts instead of becoming like Christ and one in nature out dart board has continued to grow farther away with more dividers. This all greatly expanded with the doctrine of solascriptora. individual interpretations of what the Bible says. Two brilliant men of God or woman who have spent lifetimes trying to serve him look at the same set of words and derive an understanding completely opposite of each other. There is a reason for this. We are not getting closer to God Through the word. If we were there would be less difference. Therefore somewhere along the line misunderstanding has taken place. God has shown me these things. I am a nothing, but yet I know these truths. I fear it will only lead to more of a dartboard yet I have to share what God has given. I have procrastinated and have to wonder if I have been suffering my own type of whale. In any event may God be with the thoughts I bring forth and guide them. Pray for me as I continue this journey and may he not allow satan to use this for any further division of his people. We are one as God is one. Blessings
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Old 09-03-2015, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: The Problem with Theology

Ok even though my personal level of communication skills is week lets move forward a bit. We have discussed that communication is trinitarian in nature, so how does this add to the problem or explain the problem?

For me this became obvious while I read a book describing the intricacies of translation. The author went into great detail explaining how no translation could ever be word for word correct. while it was somewhat possible to be close in western style languages, the complete difference in structure made it impossible to do word for word translation of many tribal languages. In such cases the only possible method involved do ones best to discern the original content, the intended message and using the new language convey this same intent.

This is far different then the nitpicking means used by theologians to dissect the Bible under sloascriptora. theological dissection of the Bible takes into account the physical forms and does its best to find the original understandings of word meaning but seem to place little or no value on any spiritual addition to the process. Thus an incomplete picture is produced and misunderstandings occur which has lead to the increased division among Christians. This is totally understandable because lets face it, from a Bible alone spiritual content is near impossible to obtain.

God helps us out here. He has told us that He will send the Spirit to teach us. yes spiritual revelation is the solution. By studying the Bible under the Spirit it is possible to truly interpret the authors(GOD) intent in each passage, phrase word and letter. This is clearly demonstrated in a natural occurrence. I refer to it as natural because it just seems to naturally occur. I first saw this detailed in a video dealing with Baptists and its duality of Armenian and Calvinistic beliefs. In the video it described a problem they had and that being the learned leadership holding to the latter while the average believer holding to the prior belief structures. Another way to put this is that those who studied the ways of man merely dissecting the word of God under the concept of solascriptora tended to hold to a five point theology while those who relied on God the Spirit for understanding tended to view things more Armenian in style. If you look closely it is possible to see this repeated in history and currently in in other places and ways. it is not an isolated concept.

My belief is that once all three form of revelation are aligned those things that divide the church will disappear and unity will develop. I am sure this will not take place until the pride of church leadership, the need to prove I am right at all cost is put in check.

I think this concludes this thought. I have been struggling to put order to these ideas for a few years. I am truly winging it here writing as I go. I ask you to forgive my disordered approach and hope some good can come of it.There is more to come if I stay true to myself so much to be conveyed.
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  #7  
Old 09-03-2015, 10:36 AM
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Default Re: The Problem with Theology

The ways of men are not the ways of God. We are to come to him as children.


The problem is there are no children anymore, only men trying to prove their understanding of jots and tittles is more correct than the next guys understanding. They seek to prove personal beliefs in the word instead of understanding God. The church is as the temple was filled with profiteers selling religion. faith has been replaced by business practices.


These people are trying to out world the world and the church is falling apart.

Jesus never said to run a business, he said to teach them to repent.
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  #8  
Old 09-03-2015, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: The Problem with Theology

You might think this approach is questionable or worse. walk into any Christian book store. You will see a Bible for woman, its content commented on to promote the authors beliefs of on women's issues or hunting or the twelve steps. The focus of the Bible removed from God and now centered on readers needs, an its about me thinking. authors have more spiritual authority than the local pastor. In fact is Miley tomorrow claimed to e Christian and spoke on issues she would have more authority on these Christian issue than the local pastor in many teens eyes.

Jots and tittles, personal understandings of the word replacing the leadership. Paul's letters now more important than Paul, because the word under solascriptora is the word. And lets face it the week minded can be lead to think the word says what they or satan want it to say. Its about me remember.

It has been said you can use the Bible to justify anything, and the American church has been doing just this very thing.

By becoming worldly and businesslike, the church has handed over its authority to those who can do those very things a lot better than they can. our leaders are now being taught by the those tainted. they in turn are teaching a new generation.

Its time to take focus off of the jots and tittles and return to GOD!
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Old 09-03-2015, 03:33 PM
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Default Re: The Problem with Theology

.


Hi BOB
I think I understand you to be saying, there are three sources of God's Revelation to man.
These three must agree with each other, no single revelation is sufficient in itself to express God's revelation, it must always be in unity with the other two.

1) Spiritual revelation
2) Natural revelation
3) Revelation through Communication (Bible)

How do you propose this unity is to be achieved, how are the Spiritual and Natural Revelation aspects brought into play, once you believe you have a Communication revelation from the Bible?
How do they judge each other as valid and acceptable as a true revelation?

Could you supply some definitive examples of this Revelational Unity you are speaking of, in order for me to better understand how this unity is actually achieved?

JIM

.
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Old 09-03-2015, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: The Problem with Theology

Quote:
Originally Posted by justabob View Post
The ways of men are not the ways of God. We are to come to him as children.


The problem is there are no children anymore, only men trying to prove their understanding of jots and tittles is more correct than the next guys understanding. They seek to prove personal beliefs in the word instead of understanding God. The church is as the temple was filled with profiteers selling religion. faith has been replaced by business practices.


These people are trying to out world the world and the church is falling apart.

Jesus never said to run a business, he said to teach them to repent.
That is a pretty broad-brushed judgment. Are you sure it is just to paint the mural that you are painting?
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