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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Theology  > Can evil happen without man?

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  #1  
Old 10-20-2014, 03:35 PM
CHRISTOPHER310's Avatar
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Default Can evil happen without man?

I am not asking if the devil can exist without man. The devil is very much real and is alive without the need of man to keep him alive.

I am not asking if evil can exist without man. If the devil exist, so does evil. For the devil is the original creator of evil.

I am asking without man, can evil happen? Meaning this... The devil is real and the devil is evil, but that real evil can ( or can not ) happen without man giving into the devilís temptations and in turn, making evil happen. What if man never gave into the devilís temptations. Could the evil that is real actually happen beyond just being in or apart of the devil? The devil tempts me to swear and insult others. That is evil, but if I choose not too give into that temptation, can that evil actually happen? It can exist with in or apart of the devil, but if the temptation is not accepted and given into, can it happen?

I am not sure if I can explain my question clear to a point others may understand it or not. I hope others can understand what I am trying to ask. I know many are wiser than me and so hopefully others do understand my question and can enlighten me with an answer.

If evil can not happen without man, than is man to be more feared than the devil simply because man is the one who makes evil happen and the devil only tempts man with evil options?
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Old 10-20-2014, 10:14 PM
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Default Re: Can evil happen without man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRISTOPHER310 View Post
I am not asking if the devil can exist without man. The devil is very much real and is alive without the need of man to keep him alive.

I am not asking if evil can exist without man. If the devil exist, so does evil. For the devil is the original creator of evil.

I am asking without man, can evil happen? Meaning this... The devil is real and the devil is evil, but that real evil can ( or can not ) happen without man giving into the devilís temptations and in turn, making evil happen. What if man never gave into the devilís temptations. Could the evil that is real actually happen beyond just being in or apart of the devil? The devil tempts me to swear and insult others. That is evil, but if I choose not too give into that temptation, can that evil actually happen? It can exist with in or apart of the devil, but if the temptation is not accepted and given into, can it happen?

I am not sure if I can explain my question clear to a point others may understand it or not. I hope others can understand what I am trying to ask. I know many are wiser than me and so hopefully others do understand my question and can enlighten me with an answer.

If evil can not happen without man, than is man to be more feared than the devil simply because man is the one who makes evil happen and the devil only tempts man with evil options?
.

Jas 1:13-15
13) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

What is seen from these verses is, lust resides within the heart of man, the temptation comes into being because of the lust of man, therefore acting upon the temptation, man sins.

Answering your question, with a question.


Without man, where, or how would the evil appear, I do not think evil is relevant except in relation to man.
I would say Evil is best described as Sin.

Rom. 5:13
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

.

Upon further investigation, I do not find anywhere in the Bible, where Man is tempted, of the Devil, as you have said.
Even where we would naturally assume the word Temp would be found (Genesis) it isn't.

Jesus was Tempted of the Devil, for forty days, but it does not say anywhere else, man/we was/are tempted.

JIM

.
.
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  #3  
Old 10-21-2014, 09:09 AM
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Default Re: Can evil happen without man?

Whenever choice is available, some will choose sin, Eve was pure and without sin, and she chose to rebel, when she chose to believe the serpent over God.
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Knowledge and Wisdom are both good and worth finding, but they also have truly bad downsides, just study the life of Solomon to see the truth of this. Love does not puff up. Perfect Love drives out pride. Faith, Hope, and Love are the greatest of all things we can strive for, and the greatest of these are Love. Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with ALL your heart and lean NOT on your own understanding. In all your ways aknowledge Him and He shall direct your paths.
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Old 10-21-2014, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: Can evil happen without man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRISTOPHER310 View Post
I am not asking if the devil can exist without man. The devil is very much real and is alive without the need of man to keep him alive.

I am not asking if evil can exist without man. If the devil exist, so does evil. For the devil is the original creator of evil.

I am asking without man, can evil happen? Meaning this... The devil is real and the devil is evil, but that real evil can ( or can not ) happen without man giving into the devilís temptations and in turn, making evil happen. What if man never gave into the devilís temptations. Could the evil that is real actually happen beyond just being in or apart of the devil? The devil tempts me to swear and insult others. That is evil, but if I choose not too give into that temptation, can that evil actually happen? It can exist with in or apart of the devil, but if the temptation is not accepted and given into, can it happen?

I am not sure if I can explain my question clear to a point others may understand it or not. I hope others can understand what I am trying to ask. I know many are wiser than me and so hopefully others do understand my question and can enlighten me with an answer.

If evil can not happen without man, than is man to be more feared than the devil simply because man is the one who makes evil happen and the devil only tempts man with evil options?
I think I understand. Yes evil does and has existed without man, Lucifer was the first to formant evil in his heart through pride and envy of the human race. Evil can also exist without Satan because of freewill. The Devil does not need to tempt us to do wrong lie say cussing we can do fine on our own.

It's when we resist our own propensity toward evil does Satan and his minions tempt us to try and trip us up.
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Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle, be our protection against the malice and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him we humbly pray; and do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all evil spirits who wander through the world for the ruin of souls. Amen.
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  #5  
Old 10-25-2014, 02:04 PM
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Default Re: Can evil happen without man?

This requires a PHILOSOPHICAL understanding (much the same as most of what God is saying to us about HUMAN NATURE)....



...Paul was well fit to speak to the Athenians. Being well aquainted with Philosophy, Paul explained their worship of 'GOOD LIVING' principles that Socrates taught in Acts 17.



Isa 45:7
I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe, I am the LORD, who do all these things.


Philosophically, GOOD/light cannot exist without darkness/evil/iniquity/wrongdoing.

ON EARTH (when things are done THE HUMAN WAY....MAN"S way), there must be OPPOSITES and CONTRAST....(darkness).
, but "IN GOD" there is no such thing as "darkness" to compare "light" to...


...."God is LIGHT" and in Him there is NO DARKNESS AT ALL.

Last edited by solidfood : 10-25-2014 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 11-02-2014, 03:42 PM
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Default Re: Can evil happen without man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by solidfood View Post
This requires a PHILOSOPHICAL understanding (much the same as most of what God is saying to us about HUMAN NATURE)....



...Paul was well fit to speak to the Athenians. Being well aquainted with Philosophy, Paul explained their worship of 'GOOD LIVING' principles that Socrates taught in Acts 17.



Isa 45:7
I form light and create darkness, I make weal and create woe, I am the LORD, who do all these things.


Philosophically, GOOD/light cannot exist without darkness/evil/iniquity/wrongdoing.

ON EARTH (when things are done THE HUMAN WAY....MAN"S way), there must be OPPOSITES and CONTRAST....(darkness).
, but "IN GOD" there is no such thing as "darkness" to compare "light" to...


...."God is LIGHT" and in Him there is NO DARKNESS AT ALL.
Good/light cannot exist without darkness/evil/sin?

I don't think this is a true statement.

If the angel lucifer never sinned then Good/light would have existed perpetually without darkness/sin.
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"... There is nothing more beautiful than to be surprised by the Gospel, by the encounter with Christ. There is nothing more beautiful than to know Him and to speak to others of our friendship with Him." (Pope Benedict XVI) [Homily of His Holiness, Sunday, April 24th 2005]

GOD MADE MARY
NE - CES - SARY.


When Jesus, the Living Bread, says IS He means IS.
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  #7  
Old 11-05-2014, 02:24 PM
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Default Re: Can evil happen without man?

Mankind CHOSE to have THE KNOWLEDGE that good and it's opposite (evil) exist.


"EVIL" is caused by man's limitations of being in the mortal FLESH.

After the Garden, mankind continued it's ways of taking shortcuts, and being lazy/sloppy, and careless/imperfect, so God made this undesirable behavior ("evil") more apparent to the Israelites by giving them 10 laws/commandments against unruly behavior/imperfection (the 10 comm. were given to make our need of 'life eternal' and purification more obvious to us).

When a drug addict says that they need to OVERCOME their "demon", they are referring to the flaw of their character/behavior that needs to be conquered (a "demon" is NOT external to a person).

Neither should GOD be external to those who truly love Him, He should be INTERNAL to us.

...Him in us and us in Him.

...His spirit in the inner man.

We need to learn to HANDLE CORRECTLY the knowledge that was chosen in the Garden ("EVIL" must become ILLOGICAL to us and we need to learn to not be prudish or bureaucratic in our thinking/attitudes. There are many discrepancies about what is right/wrong, but the correct understanding is to not do what is UNJUST.

Last edited by solidfood : 11-05-2014 at 02:32 PM.
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  #8  
Old 11-15-2014, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: Can evil happen without man?

Lucifer rebelled against God and took a third of the angels with him, did he not?
Wasn't Lucifer's rebellion against God motivated by Lucifer's beauty and the desire to be worshipped?
Being the "father of lies" places a great deal of evil squarely upon Lucifer's shoulders, so to speak.
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Old 11-15-2014, 01:59 PM
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Default Re: Can evil happen without man?

Everything in scripture is made obsolete by the JESUS DISPENSATION (meaning Jesus changed everything). Satan has been DESTROYED because of what Jesus did.....ON THE CROSS and also the giving of the Father's spirit (the blood on the cross AND the "living water" that ALSO POURED from Jesus's side).



Heb 2:14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same nature, that through death he might destroy him who has the power of death, that is, the devil,.....RSV.


The "old" has passed away.
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Old 11-15-2014, 02:04 PM
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Default Re: Can evil happen without man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by solidfood View Post
Everything in scripture is made obsolete by the JESUS DISPENSATION (meaning Jesus changed everything). Satan has been DESTROYED because of what Jesus did.....ON THE CROSS and also the giving of the Father's spirit (the blood on the cross AND the "living water" that ALSO POURED from Jesus's side).



Heb 2:14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same nature, that through death he might destroy him who has the power of death, that is, the devil,.....RSV.


The "old" has passed away.
Satan has not been destroyed. He was defeated but not destroyed.
Satan is alive and very active and despite many claims, he does not reside in the White House.
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