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True2Ourselves Forums   > The Round Table > Theology 2  > Apostolic Succession

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Old 09-07-2015, 08:41 PM
Linsinbigler's Avatar
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Default Re: Apostolic Succession

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Originally Posted by ElpidioLGagolinan View Post
The answer you gave appeared focused on Orthodox and Catholic priests. Then I was asked what more do I want ? I do believe the answer is based on the position in the church as a minister and loyalty to the church. I as a layman probably have more leeway to answer. God is the Judge and the Savior, He is not limited to our denominations. I have attended various churches and I believe true churches are those churches who have Jesus in it .Churches who are truly loving God and truly obeying.

God's people can come from churches or any nations who truly love the Lord. During the time of Jesus as a human being, He accepts Samaritans just as He loves the Jews. Through Paul , God proclaimed there is no more Jews or Gentiles. In the book of Peter, it was revealed that God is not willing that any should perish. God is no respecter of person. He loves whom He loves, and those who loves Him, loves God's people too.

ped
Ped, I am rather confused. I could be wrong, but before I proceed further I need to know your motivation for asking the following questions:

"Do the successors resemble the originals ? should they be like the originals ?"


I apologize if I am reading too much into your questions. Do the successors resemble the originals? I thought of the first example of Christian leaders who situations are corollary to that of the Apostles (Christian leaders under similar persecution to the Apostles in the same region that the Apostles trod). I gave an example of how in Aleppo two Bishops were imprisoned for simply being "Nasara" (Christian). "Nasara" means "Nazarene," and it is the same "accusation" that the Jewish leadership gave against the Apostles. The Islamists imprisoned these two for being "ringleaders of the sect of the Nazarenes (in Arabic Nasara)," just as the Jews nearly 2000 years ago imprisoned the Apostles for being "ringleaders of the sect of the Nazarenes." Both bishops are Orthodox as Orthodox Christianity is the native form of Christianity in the Middle East.

BTW they did not all run at the cross. One remained, John, before Pentecost. After Pentecost, Nicholas the deacon, though he received the Holy Spirit and was a Christian leader, by the time of the writing of the book of Revelation had developed his own heresy and become the leader of the sect of Nicolaitans. Pentecost was an empowering, but not a magic formula to keep anyone from falling away. Peter affirmed his love for Christ 3x before he was restored after his 3x denial, and this was before Pentecost.

What did Pentecost do? It gave the Spirit to the Apostles so that they in turn could give the Spirit, and form a community that "continued steadfastly in the doctrine of the Apostles, in the communion, in the breaking of bread, and in the prayers." It is not unimportant that the definite article is there (and it is a tragedy that it was removed by many English translators).

Last edited by Linsinbigler : 09-07-2015 at 08:43 PM.
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  #62  
Old 09-08-2015, 03:39 AM
ElpidioLGagolinan's Avatar
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Default Re: Apostolic Succession

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Originally Posted by Linsinbigler View Post
Ped, I am rather confused. I could be wrong, but before I proceed further I need to know your motivation for asking the following questions:

"Do the successors resemble the originals ? should they be like the originals ?"


I apologize if I am reading too much into your questions. Do the successors resemble the originals? I thought of the first example of Christian leaders who situations are corollary to that of the Apostles (Christian leaders under similar persecution to the Apostles in the same region that the Apostles trod). I gave an example of how in Aleppo two Bishops were imprisoned for simply being "Nasara" (Christian). "Nasara" means "Nazarene," and it is the same "accusation" that the Jewish leadership gave against the Apostles. The Islamists imprisoned these two for being "ringleaders of the sect of the Nazarenes (in Arabic Nasara)," just as the Jews nearly 2000 years ago imprisoned the Apostles for being "ringleaders of the sect of the Nazarenes." Both bishops are Orthodox as Orthodox Christianity is the native form of Christianity in the Middle East.

BTW they did not all run at the cross. One remained, John, before Pentecost. After Pentecost, Nicholas the deacon, though he received the Holy Spirit and was a Christian leader, by the time of the writing of the book of Revelation had developed his own heresy and become the leader of the sect of Nicolaitans. Pentecost was an empowering, but not a magic formula to keep anyone from falling away. Peter affirmed his love for Christ 3x before he was restored after his 3x denial, and this was before Pentecost.

What did Pentecost do? It gave the Spirit to the Apostles so that they in turn could give the Spirit, and form a community that "continued steadfastly in the doctrine of the Apostles, in the communion, in the breaking of bread, and in the prayers." It is not unimportant that the definite article is there (and it is a tragedy that it was removed by many English translators).
I believe my motivation is to seek the truth . Apostolic succession is I believe the strongest claim of the Roman Catholics for legitimacy or authority. If this is true what did Martin Luther(and others) saw that needs reforming ?

In my research, John the apostle wrote the book of Revelation in AD 95, so this could be the time of the last original apostle.

So next questions are who succeded the twelve apostles ? and when did the pope or papacy started ? I believe emperial Rome (ruled by emperors) and Christian Rome as led by Popes did not exist at the same time. Can we say that where the last emperor of Rome occured is when the first pope started ? History says Emperor Constantine legalized Christianity in 313 AD in the Roman empire. So from 95 AD to 313 AD is about 218 years.
I believe around these years that succession and transformation of Imperial Rome to "Christian" Rome occured.

People tend to believe history to favor or agree with their beliefs example Catholics believe the popes and the Protestants avoid the popes. Since history is debatable, the safe way for me is what does God wants or what does He approves.

Again on the subject of Apostolic Succession, the truth can be traced to the original apostles as authorized or empowered by God. We can't help but ask who are the successors ? Are the claims of Rome beyond question ? History tells that there were tensions between the Western (Rome?) and Eastern churches come to a boil when the Bishop of Rome (or the pope) excommunicates the Patriarch of Constantiple...in 1054.

My reasoning or line of thought is not fool proof so correct me as you see fit.

ped
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