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True2Ourselves Forums   > Community Topics > Sexual Morality  > California Supreme Court Decision (May 15, 2008)

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  #1  
Old 06-18-2008, 07:47 PM
Olsen's Avatar
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Default California Supreme Court Decision (May 15, 2008)

A recent California Supreme decision constitutionally mandating same sex marriage in that state prompted me to supplement my initial article on same sex marriage with this one. I would like to begin by restating five key points made in the first article:
1. Homosexuality is intrinsically disordered and is certainly not a "normal variant" within the human species - whether chosen or not!

2. Acceptance of homosexuality as "normal" does an enormous disservice to society by directly attacking the traditional family.

3. Acceptance of homosexuality as "normal" does an enormous disservice to homosexuals themselves, notwithstanding the placebo effect that is temporarily brought about.

4. Same sex marriage is the epitome of social and legal acceptance.

5. The trend towards "normalization" of homosexuality will probably continue.
It is the fifth point that I would like to initially revisit together with my reasons for that prediction. Those reasons include:
1. The continuous efforts of a completely dedicated gay activist community which is well organized and well funded that devotes 24/7 to accomplish its goal to "normalize" homosexuality and the very apex of such normalization is, of course, same sex marriage.

2. The extremely effective propaganda of the gay activist community, in this age of political correctness, encouraged by a sympathetic liberal media which, in combination, creates the context for the judicial activists to assert themselves i.e. the supreme courts of Massachusetts and California being examples.
The main features of the propaganda, in turn, involve two essential distortions of the truth: First, discrimination based on sexual orientation is akin to discrimination based on sex or race. All such biases, the propagandist teaches, stand in opposition to equality and are rooted in prejudice largely resting on outdated religious morality.

A classic example of the point made in the last paragraph is found in recent commentary of the California Supreme Court decision by Michael C. Dorf, a professor of law at Columbia University, in his article found in FindLaw dated May 19, 2008. He is quoted as follows:

"Should the voters of California respond by overriding the decision by ballot initiative, they will not in any way prove the court erred. It will show only that the voters have sullied the noble principle of equality with an exception rooted in prejudice"

Presumably, according to Dorf, such voters would be legal morons and bigots. By logical extension, he would have to include all the legislators and congressmen who have voted in favor of "Defense of Marriage" statutes on both the state and federal level or who have sponsored constitutional amendments to ban same sex marriage as ratified by the voters in numerous states and may yet be done by the voters of California as early as November of this year. Dorf would award the "Bigot Badge" to all of them. The bigot badge is, in fact, the most powerful weapon utilized by the gay activist to silence opposition.

Second, sexual orientation is congenital, whether heterosexual or homosexual (and perhaps bisexual), and not the product of choice. Homosexuality is no more abnormal than being born left-hand dominate as opposed to right-hand dominate - even though there are statistically fewer lefties.

The California and Massachusetts supreme courts have now both held that "marriage" must be redefined to comport with the constitutional requirements of equality demanded by their respective state constitutions - at least according to the majority of the justices on each court. Both decisions were split decisions. In California, however, that supreme court went one step further and placed "sexual orientation" into the same suspect classification as race and sex. Their ruling represent a triumph for the first example of propaganda described above.

In effect sex, race and sexual orientation are all forms of improper discrimination. What such a ruling really does is to enormously cheapen the legitimate struggle of people of color and women in their past and continuing struggle for social and legal equality in this country. To equate an intrinsically disordered relationship in which two men (or women) unite to feed on each others pathology to racial or sexual differences in the human species is a perversion of truth. Racial and sexual differences are true normal variations. Homosexuality is abnormal - yesterday, today and tomorrow. It's that simple.

The defining issue in this whole debate, in face, should always begin with this question:

"Is homosexuality normal or abnormal?"


As incomprehensible as it may be to the gay activist, their allies and those duped by their propaganda - the answer, as already suggested, is that homosexuality is abnormal - regardless of its cause. To again borrow a phrase from the Vatican on the subject - homosexuality is an intrinsically disordered state. It is abnormal, dysfunctional and pathological. As I stated in my first article, no one should ever morally judge the person but rather only the conduct. We all have baggage. Lightening that baggage, however, never begins by denying its existence or pretending that it is something that it is not!

The placebo of "normalization" eases the short term pain of the homosexual but prolongs the long term agony of this and future generations of those afflicted with it. The trend of "normalization" frustrates the search for the cause and cure of homosexuality. Social and legal acceptance of homosexuality is tantamount to spitting in the face of a sick person. Is that the correct Christian response? No! Acceptance of the homosexual is right but the accommodation of homosexuality is wrong. What would Christ do?! Bless the union of two men united in holy matrimony? No, again! Christ would heal them and that is precisely what we must lovingly do ourselves.
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Last edited by olsen : 06-22-2008 at 01:27 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-07-2009, 08:25 AM
antonio
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: California Supreme Court Decision (May 15, 2008)


Good morning--just go in -I watched a video or most of it last night at the hospital, it showed a group of ministers talking about same sex marriage and I wondered if the Chair of that group was you. His points seemed reminiscent.
You wrote:
Quote:
The defining issue in this whole debate, in face, should always begin with this question:"Is homosexuality normal or abnormal?"
Perhaps seeing this as the defining issue is the very source of our differences. Paul, in Galatians, said that in Jesus opposites no longer existed. He clearly articulated with that verse, in Jesus there is no place for dualistic thinking. Interestingly,the same message comes directly from Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas. In the synoptic gospels, over and over, Jesus' teachings reflect non-dualism--that we are one with Him and because of Him, one with the Father. It seems to me these teachings were not meant to be a laundry list of opposites, male-female, greek-jew, free-slave but were a lesson that in Jesus, there were also no black or white, no gay or straight, no powerful or poor--no normal-abnormal. Rather we are all part of the same spirit and only when we live accordingly do we see our source, God, in every human being and necessarily, ourselves. To view humanity as normal and abnormal,opposites that have nothing to do we each other seems to be contrary to Jesus' teachings. It also forecloses or limits the ability to follow the Great Command to love all humans, even your enemies, turning the other cheek, giving them more than what they take from you. This can only be done if we see through what seems to makes us separate and begin to see that we are all one in Jesus. For me, it works this way,love your enemy, you love Jesus, you love yourself, you love Jesus, you love enemies, on and on. Non-dualism doesn't mean that there are no differences. Of course there is darkness and light-ness. It only means that they are not seperate but are part of the same phenomenon--thus, it's nonsense to "curse the darkness" because you are also cursing the lightness. Bless the darkness--just get more light if you like-light a candle. I see it as going through life without hating anything, loving everything.
The revolutionary thought of non-dualism that underlay Jesus' teachings is scientifically sound. Each human have genomes almost identical to every other human.The slight differences account for many physical characteristics, behavioral characteristics and gender. When the big bang of conception occurs, that infinitely small dab of protoplasm is virtually indistinguishable from any other dab.What we will be is all there with all our differences. So from the beginning we are one and when we return to dust and spirit, we are one. Jesus tried to teach us that while we "live" we are also, one.
blessings to all on this wetish day out there.
antonio
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  #3  
Old 02-03-2009, 02:36 PM
diebamted21
 
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Default Re: California Supreme Court Decision (May 15, 2008)

Quote:
Originally Posted by antonio View Post

Good morning--just go in -I watched a video or most of it last night at the hospital, it showed a group of ministers talking about same sex marriage antonio
The 'other' Antonio, who isn't you but who also is obsessed with sexuality, also works in a hospital.
You may have met.

Diebamted21.
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  #4  
Old 02-03-2009, 10:59 PM
antonio
 
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Default Re: California Supreme Court Decision (May 15, 2008)

Dear 21--Interesting--what is there about my post that indicates an obsession of any kind? I presented a scriptural argument that no one has contradicted yet. I could have gone on and demonstrated, , as you must know, that the overwhelming if not total mental health community, scientific studies, findings and opinions have for some time concluded that Homosexuality is not intrinsically disordered. So If someone insists there is a disorder without troubling anyone's brain with a shred of evidence, why aren't you concerned with their "obsession?"---however, I didn't raise this. So what is it,Dr Freud on which you base your opinion I am obsessed.

antonio

ps I happen to have the highest regard for Olsen. We are of the same faith although i am in its radical fringe. But I receive the same sacraments as he does. I just perceive God and Jesus more like Hans Kung than he does--if I may draw a comparison.

Born Again American.
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  #5  
Old 02-03-2009, 11:35 PM
PentecostalEvangelist
 
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Default Re: California Supreme Court Decision (May 15, 2008)

I am an ordained minister, with rights and priviledges to perform marriage cerimonies.

IF same sex marriage is ever approved by national law and ordained ministers are required by federal regulations to marry same sex partners I will immediately tear up my credentials and refuse without remorse or regret to marry same sex partners (homosexuals).

I also believe that IF this does happen any person who agrees to marry individuals of the same sex will by that act completely disavow their Christianity and their commitment to Christ Jesus and pledge full allegience to the devil......

God Bless!

Michael
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  #6  
Old 02-03-2009, 11:38 PM
antonio
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: California Supreme Court Decision (May 15, 2008)

Hmm, I might have a tree other than the one you are barking under but i'll let you stew for a biblical while.

Foreseeing someone with whom i might have a discussion, let me list:
1. Im reading Chopra, "the third Jesus" --read it ?
2. Ever read or even hear of Luke Johnson?
3. charles jones from Catholic University--read, attend lectures?
4 anthing by Bart Ehrman?
antonio
Born Again American.
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  #7  
Old 02-03-2009, 11:46 PM
antonio
 
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Default Re: California Supreme Court Decision (May 15, 2008)

Dear PE--I am also an Ordained Minister. I got mine by mail from the Universal Life Church in California back when I was in High School. Where'd you get yours? How much do you charge for a wedding?
blessings
antonio

Born Again American.
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  #8  
Old 02-04-2009, 12:06 AM
PentecostalEvangelist
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: California Supreme Court Decision (May 15, 2008)

Quote:
Originally Posted by antonio View Post
Dear PE--I am also an Ordained Minister. I got mine by mail from the Universal Life Church in California back when I was in High School.


You a practicing homosexual an ordained minister?

But then why would I BE shocked since the orginization you got your credentials is a satanic group.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by antonio View Post
Where'd you get yours? How much do you charge for a wedding?
blessings
antonio Born Again American.
My credentials are from 'Cross In The Way Ministries' A Non Denominational Christian Orginization headquartered here in the state of Arkansas.

I wouldn't ever marry you and your little Asian homosexual love partner Antonio, there isn't enough money or riches throughout the entire universe to ever tempt me to commit such a disgusting act.

But for individuals who are of a differenrt sex (Male and Female) NON homosexual (there is NO such thing as Bi Sexual, you're Homosexual or your humanly decent) I usually don't charge anything.....

Last edited by PentecostalEvangelist : 02-04-2009 at 12:14 AM.
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  #9  
Old 02-04-2009, 12:11 AM
PentecostalEvangelist
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: California Supreme Court Decision (May 15, 2008)

Quote:
Originally Posted by antonio View Post
Hmm, I might have a tree other than the one you are barking under but i'll let you stew for a biblical while.

Foreseeing someone with whom i might have a discussion, let me list:
1. Im reading Chopra, "the third Jesus" --read it ?
2. Ever read or even hear of Luke Johnson?
3. charles jones from Catholic University--read, attend lectures?
4 anthing by Bart Ehrman?
antonio
Born Again American.
As my great Grandpap would have said pen up the hounds and let 'em sleep through the storm.....

Can't say that I'd ever want to read any of these authors writings.

But you go ahead and immerse yourself in these things Antonio, it's a certain fact that although you sometimes profess to love Jesus and faithfully follow him you STILL blatantly reject the word of God....

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  #10  
Old 02-04-2009, 02:45 AM
antonio
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: California Supreme Court Decision (May 15, 2008)

GEE-- THIS is what I came up with when I googled the name.[Your search - +"Cross In The Way Ministries" - did not match any documents.]
Did they go Kapute? Maybe your's was satanic too.
Actually the guy was a pentecostal in Modesto who had pretty much the same idea of government and churches as you. That was his purpose to make a couple of bucks and give everyone the chance to pull the "non-profit" shenanigan.

Oh, the other post wasn't to you it was to 21. I would never think you would corrupt your mind by reading anything other than the Bible-you made that clear.
Blessings to you
antonio


Born Again American.

Last edited by antonio : 02-04-2009 at 02:50 AM.
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