[Kriizzle]

I've been reading many of the topics and responses in this little corner of forum-land, and been quite intrigued by many of the responses and questions. I'm one for questioning almost everything, and you guys are doing it for me... woot woot! I give props to you all with being the best group of people when it comes to forums... lol

I do have my own little split off... It's two parts, one that is covered a lot (what's one more gonna do) and one a little more in the shadows.

The first is Homosexuality... go figure. I was talking in the chat room earlier this week (some of you may have been there). I asked one of the basic questions. Will there be any homosexuals in heaven? I did receive one answer, but I was dissappointed, so I've decided to ask more people. Will there be any of them in heaven? Why or why not?

The second is a personal one. (Feel free to be honest. I wouldn't say it unless I expected and was prepared for some bashing... lol)
I'm not married, I live with my boyfriend, and I'm sure you can do that math. For those of you who need that extra hand, in Bible terms, I would be a fornicator. (As a side note: I do not attend church, but I do believe in God. He and I have an.... interesting relationship for lack of a better term.) I've been told that if I repent, I'm all set, that I'm going to hell regardless, and also that because I'm "willing going against God" I'm part of Satan's army... (the last one is my favorite cause I laugh everytime). I don't believe that I'm going to hell for sleeping with my boyfriend. One, because he is the one I'm going to marry, two, God knows my issues, and He and I are working on them in our own time. I want to know how many people are on which side (don't be afraid to lay it out, I can take it), because frankly, I don't think I'm gonna go to hell...

Hello.

I will try to answer you. If you have accepted Christ as your savior you are going to heaven.

If you say you openly commit fornication or a person willingly commits other acts which God has deemed sinful this would present a problem.

When we sin we do not lose the gift of salvation but we do lose fellowship with our God. To me thats a big deal to some I dont think it is. It is to say that the person you are commiting the act with and you yourself are more important to you than God is. I think that is a fair statement.

Now if one would think they or their partner are indeed more important that God ..well I would have to question my beliefs if it were me.

This would be true though of any sin that we live in. Sexual sins are not worse than other sins. all sin is wrong to God. The Holy Spirit will tell us we are sinning and we need to bring that before our Father.

So anywayz I would not think you would be going to hell but you may want to prayerfully talk to God about it and see where it goes from there.

I hope I dont sound condemning. Ive just been were you are and know how it made me feel and what it did to my life and my relationship with God.

[ChaplainLukens]

Hi Its nice to meet you. To answer a couple of questions, I am blessed to be a part of a God blessing in peoples lives. There is always hope. I counsel people within the prisons for serious issues. There families are fragmented and have to have a bigger love for children of mothers and fathers. It is important to know God and accept Jesus as our saviour. I do know personally people who were very much in a dangerous lifestyle who were heaven ready when they went. My late husband was a biker who JEsus found. His family one by one accepted the Lord. That was the most important thing, to know the Lord, not if they were married or unmarried. The issue here is acceptance of the Lords plan and call for your life. In working with bikers, marriage was not the first thing we talked about. It was rescuing them from despair and pain from the troubles they were having at the time. It was to point them to a friend who will be there when the world walks out. The Lord loves us even when we are rebellious. He does not condone , but does love. The most difficult thing to discuss is sex before marriage with young people. It depends where you are at. I help couples coming out of abuse, as well as gangs, drugs and alcohol, and other types of addictions issues. Sometimes people resist things they do not understand. God loves us very much like the lost sheep. I find myself helping stubborn sheep find a safe pasture.The thing is to be secure and happy within and not desperate. I Counsel women who have raised self-esteem so that they do not live for to please a man, but put God first and live today. Then they are happy because it is not a desperate need but a relationship that is stable not take-take. God Bless you and your walk with God. God can find you any place. Jesus spent alot of time outside the church to look for the lost sheep!

[Kriizzle]

Both of you have good points... Now, I'm no full-****n Christian... like I said before, God and I have an interesting relationship. He and I talk occasionally (as if He needed updates, He's always there) and there's a lot of things I don't like about my life that we've been working on. Right now, I'm happy with my life. I think I'm living it the best I can, and to the fullest that I can without causing too much rukous... I'm not lost... God and myself know exactly where I am... I've never been one to spend hours praying or spending every Saturday at church... God may not be completely happy with my life choices so far, but He and I both understand them... if that makes any sense... lol

Originally Posted by Daniel

Hello.

I will try to answer you. If you have accepted Christ as your savior you are going to heaven.

If you say you openly commit fornication or a person willingly commits other acts which God has deemed sinful this would present a problem.

When we sin we do not lose the gift of salvation but we do lose fellowship with our God. To me thats a big deal to some I dont think it is. It is to say that the person you are commiting the act with and you yourself are more important to you than God is. I think that is a fair statement.

Now if one would think they or their partner are indeed more important that God ..well I would have to question my beliefs if it were me.

This would be true though of any sin that we live in. Sexual sins are not worse than other sins. all sin is wrong to God. The Holy Spirit will tell us we are sinning and we need to bring that before our Father.

So anywayz I would not think you would be going to hell but you may want to prayerfully talk to God about it and see where it goes from there.

I hope I dont sound condemning. Ive just been were you are and know how it made me feel and what it did to my life and my relationship with God.

Daniel, I would love to tell you that what you said was true and to comfort someone while they continue to sin willfully, but there is a problem. God's word. It says as clearly as it can that if we choose to continue to sin willfully after having received the gift of salvation, there remains no more sacrifice for sins but a fearful looking for of judgement. I just do not know any way to slice or dice it differently than what it clearly says, do you?

God sent His Son to set us from from our sins, not in them. Again, would it be nice if all was just washed in the blood and made white without full repentance, thinking differently about our sins and what price He had to pay to set us free from the penalty looming over us? Yes, nice. But not truth. Jesus told the prostitute after He dispersed the crowd ready to stone her.... "Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more." Repentance is a necessary part of the forgiveness process, and without it, Jesus becomes just a get-out-of-hell-free card.

[Brad]

Bruce, wouldn't it be better to speak to Kriizzle directly? I think that if you told her that you thought that she's likely to go to hell then it would open the discussion up.

You could explain your viewpoint directly to her so that there was no misunderstanding. I often find that confronting the problem directly can lead to better appreciation of the others point of view.

Originally Posted by Kriizzle

I've been reading many of the topics and responses in this little corner of forum-land, and been quite intrigued by many of the responses and questions. I'm one for questioning almost everything, and you guys are doing it for me... woot woot! I give props to you all with being the best group of people when it comes to forums... lol

I do have my own little split off... It's two parts, one that is covered a lot (what's one more gonna do) and one a little more in the shadows.

The first is Homosexuality... go figure. I was talking in the chat room earlier this week (some of you may have been there). I asked one of the basic questions. Will there be any homosexuals in heaven? I did receive one answer, but I was dissappointed, so I've decided to ask more people. Will there be any of them in heaven? Why or why not?

The second is a personal one. (Feel free to be honest. I wouldn't say it unless I expected and was prepared for some bashing... lol)
I'm not married, I live with my boyfriend, and I'm sure you can do that math. For those of you who need that extra hand, in Bible terms, I would be a fornicator. (As a side note: I do not attend church, but I do believe in God. He and I have an.... interesting relationship for lack of a better term.) I've been told that if I repent, I'm all set, that I'm going to hell regardless, and also that because I'm "willing going against God" I'm part of Satan's army... (the last one is my favorite cause I laugh everytime). I don't believe that I'm going to hell for sleeping with my boyfriend. One, because he is the one I'm going to marry, two, God knows my issues, and He and I are working on them in our own time. I want to know how many people are on which side (don't be afraid to lay it out, I can take it), because frankly, I don't think I'm gonna go to hell...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Well, I'll bit on the homosexual one first..........There is no sin to great to not be forgiven, but to be forgiven, one must repent, which means an about face, and flee from.
So yes a homosexual can be saved, and go to heaven, but there has to be true repentance, where that person can say, And that is what I WAS!
You must be born again.

Let me ask you a very direct question......prior to living with your boy friend
can you look back in time and say honestly, I remember the day I accepted Jesus as my savior?
A day you truly came to him ,in repentance, and brokenness to be forgiven, and saved?
Have you ever walked in newness of life?

If yes, then you will go to heaven, but what you are doing now is carnal, and you will suffer loss.
We have free choice, but we cannot choose the consequences of those choices.
Most often the consequence is so great you will anguish over your action
for all your life, for it effects your future all your life.

I believe your action shows a serious lack of trust, and commitment to both The Lord, first, and then your husband to be.

Is he a Christian?

IN all honesty, I would advise you to turn away from this, tell your boy friend you want to make your relationship right with God, repent of this action, ask God to forgive you, and remain pure until you are married.

If he is a Christian,, he will agree and understand. If he is not a christian, and you are, you should not be in this relationship at all, anyway!

God is a God of new beginnings, and I would hope, and pray you would desire one, for this beginning is not good, and there will be consequences.

Dear Krizzie--you seem like you have it together so I am not sure why you'd invited others to judge your lifestyle. From what I see of your wisdom, you could be teaching us. However, I will write a lot here because I need to set forth in my own mind what God wants of me. I would love your comments.

My belief is pretty simple, the only "sin" is what separates you from God. It separates you no matter what you think or believe because it is inconsistent with Godspirit. Love is the law. What separates us from God is not loving-- Not loving God and not loving all human kind. If you read Matthew 25 around 33--its the section where Jesus tells us about the last judgment. He doesn't say as in other teachings, "it will be LIKE." Rather, He says "It is." Also, there is no mention any rules, or laws, or a list of sins like Paul does. What it describes is how "love" is shown and what"love means"--Love, Jesus says,is doing things for humans that they need at the most basic level--some food, some clothing, some shelter, some water, some comfort some hope.some joy, some pleasure. There is a zen Buddhist, my mentor, Thich Nhat Hanh, who says the same thing as Jesus. If you Google "Thich Nhat Hanh love" he'll tell you. He's a wonderful human and is the closest thing to Jesus today, I know.

As I said, in Matthew 25, there is no mention of any "thou shall nots," or sin. Rather Jesus OUTs us on love. Love isn't just some state of mind or saying "I love you God" or "I love the hungry" etc. Love means taking some action that gives of yourself and makes another humans life a little better/easier. It could be as little as a smile or offering your seat, or as much as reading to a person in a rest home, etc etc. Romantic love is the model for all love--set aside the romantic part and what's left is that desire to bring pleasure, comfort and confidence to your loved one. Its the same as your love for your child. I don't mean you treat the stranger in jail or a hospital the same as your lover or child, but the giving part and the "from the heart" part is the same.

So that's my take. God cares how we love others--how we forgive them, how we don't judge them--you can't love and judge them or love but not forgive at the same time. That's the test for your current relationship--does it comply with with the command to love your neighbor, it it does, it connects you with God. If it doesn't, it separates you. Having a Marriage certificate* doesn't relieve us of that simple requirement in every relationship, marriage or any other. Any relationship which is violent, exploitative, selfish, manipulative,co dependent, etc, is not loving and separates us from God.

For me, loving God is being in synchronicity with Him. Love creates that synchronicity lack of love impairs that synchronicity. Marriage certificates* don't provide that synchronicity, love does.
I could go on, but I think I have said most of it.
antonio
“My creed’s equality!”
Born Again American


*Marriage provides many valuable things--the legal benefits and perhaps an integrity with the rest of your family, and may even provide an incentive to stick to your effort. But you can accomplish all those things and not have love and synchronicity with God.
Again, I think you know everything I have said.
antonio

[walkinthespirit]

Originally Posted by Kriizzle

I've been reading many of the topics and responses in this little corner of forum-land, and been quite intrigued by many of the responses and questions. I'm one for questioning almost everything, and you guys are doing it for me... woot woot! I give props to you all with being the best group of people when it comes to forums... lol

I do have my own little split off... It's two parts, one that is covered a lot (what's one more gonna do) and one a little more in the shadows.

The first is Homosexuality... go figure. I was talking in the chat room earlier this week (some of you may have been there). I asked one of the basic questions. Will there be any homosexuals in heaven? I did receive one answer, but I was dissappointed, so I've decided to ask more people. Will there be any of them in heaven? Why or why not?

The second is a personal one. (Feel free to be honest. I wouldn't say it unless I expected and was prepared for some bashing... lol)
I'm not married, I live with my boyfriend, and I'm sure you can do that math. For those of you who need that extra hand, in Bible terms, I would be a fornicator. (As a side note: I do not attend church, but I do believe in God. He and I have an.... interesting relationship for lack of a better term.) I've been told that if I repent, I'm all set, that I'm going to hell regardless, and also that because I'm "willing going against God" I'm part of Satan's army... (the last one is my favorite cause I laugh everytime). I don't believe that I'm going to hell for sleeping with my boyfriend. One, because he is the one I'm going to marry, two, God knows my issues, and He and I are working on them in our own time. I want to know how many people are on which side (don't be afraid to lay it out, I can take it), because frankly, I don't think I'm gonna go to hell...

Kriizle

I like this statement Daniel made:
When we sin we do not lose the gift of salvation but we do lose fellowship with our God.

When we knowingly sin, we step away from God. Our fellowship becomes less clear, it is not the Lord that moves away, it is us.

So I believe we are more vulnerable to hearing from the enemy, thinking its God.

The Lord will convict us when we walk out of obedience, if we are filled with the Holy Spirit and truly want to walk in all HIs ways.

Are homosexuals going to heaven? Firstly we would need to know if they accepted the LORD.

If you have accepted the LORD, I do not think you are going to hell, but I do believe if we walk in sin knowingly, there will be a distance between us and the LORD in heaven, the same as there is a distance between us and the Lord on earth(the pulling away of fellowship and hearing HIS voice).

The question is this: Do you want to be really close to the LORD, or on the outside looking in? Do you want to be hot for the LORD, or lukewarm?

Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you.

The Lord does meet us where we are, but HE is jealous for us, and if we are not convicted of our sinful ways, I would say we are less then lukewarm, we are cold.

I don't think, the question is , will I be going to hell?

I think the question is, Do you love the LORD?

God bless you!


Video: You won't relent, by Misty Edwards

[Kriizzle]

Antonio - The reason I put myself up for discussion is a loaded question. Part of it is because I can start some pretty interesting conversations based on my life. Two, I'm very comfortable with where I'm at in life, and don't mind using it as a basis for discussion, whether it be positive or negative.

Bruce - You're answer is a little more... I can't think of the word cause it's early... but it made my stomach flip-flop. "Daniel, I would love to tell you that what you said was true..." With out meaning to, you just bashed someone else's beliefs... who says he's wrong? who say's you're wrong? Everyone has their own way of connecting and relating to God, and God shows each of us a different kind of salvation, friendship, and fellowship. That's what makes everyone of out testaments different, unique, and uplifting.

Keturah - To answer your question. No, there's never been a time. Now, I'm not going to get into why there's not, because that's something I don't talk about openly on the internet. That's just TMI... lol... No, my boyfriend is not a Christian. His family is pagan, which makes for very interesting family time. I kinda like it that way though. They make me really know my stuff, and at the same time, we don't condemn each other for what we believe. We always have interesting and insightful conversations, and niether of us have been "converted" yet. lol... And yes, I should be in this relationship with my boyfriend. We have the best conversations about faith, religion, etc. I wouldn't have anyone else.

WalkintheSpirit - Am I "on fire" for the Lord? No... do I have a firm set of beliefs and opinions that I stick to? Yes... Will you ever find me in a church? Probably not on the weekend unless there's a wedding. Am I lukwarm or cold? Not in my mind, but everyone sees me differently, which again makes for interesting conversations. lol

(Alrighty... I think I got everybody.... whewh!!! )