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  #1  
Old 06-06-2009, 08:30 AM
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Default Euthanasia

With everyone wanting to pick a topic that is controversial and sharing, I guess its only fair I start one that I feel the opposite of many christians. I am for Euthanasia under certain conditions. I think out of hand it could be used for great evil, but as I said under some conditions, I would agree with, and I have seen it used in a very loving manner that I felt okay with in my spirit. What say you all?

-Brad
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  #2  
Old 06-06-2009, 09:12 AM
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Default Re: Euthanasia

Greetings Brad,

Like you, I also consider it an appropriate option in certain situations. It has to be the choice of the individual and made while they were of 'sound mind' to prevent any 'abuse'.

I ended up working in home healthcare and there was a time when I 'specialized' as a live-in attendant and took care of terminally ill cancer patients. Provided them with the opportunity to live in their own homes and die in their own beds as opposed to ending up in a nursing home. With one of my 'clients', hospice had installed a shunt with instructions that whenever Earl 'came to' to give him another dose of morphine and if he was in extreme pain to give him a double dose as in kill him. Fortunately it never ended up to where I was put in that position and I am greatful for that. Perhaps under certain conditions I would be comfortable being on the receiveing end but, being a pacifist, I know I could never be on the giving end. He would have had to suffer a while longer til the hospice nurse got there. (This was in 1985)
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: Euthanasia

I am glad that you were not placed in the position of a temptation of this sort... however in this case I truly think that question that is misused today so much - What would Jesus do? applies. Does Jesus endorse euthanasia?

Does any "spirit guide" tell you it is ok to kill in "some" cases? If a "spirit guide" so indicates in the affirmative, sorry to say but I think you need to test those spirits a bit closer just to double check - Jesus would never endorse euthanasia - so neither would the Holy Spirit. Euthanasia is not justice and passing a judgment and taking a life in punishment (as so commanded by God to governments) nor is it the taking of life due to war (which is also part of the God of the Bible) it is the taking of life and putting their blood on you hands and their blood will cry out to God forever - funny how science today shows this to be true when they can find where blood was decades after everyone thought the blood was gone.

Helping someone commit suicide is never endorsed in Scripture.

If we talk about euthanasia or infanticide - we are talking about something God hates - the killing of the innocent and the indication is all who commit murder are not of God and need forgiveness as murderers will not find a place in heaven.

I am afraid that we are in America heading to a point where it will be demanded by our government in both cases - infanticide is already endorsed by many in our government including our President and euthanasia will probably be added soon as a cost effective form of health care.... Why the ill don't die when we think they should is not our choice but Gods and we need be careful when we start classifying ourselves with His domain and that is not classified as the domain given to Adam (or Christians).

As Christian's Jesus Christ in His epistles to the 7 churches tells us to stand firm to what is good and right - neither practice is good or right. Prayer might be in order though for the one who is ill, with the old - "thy will, not my will" being what we end with.....

In Christ
Windy
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:55 PM
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Default Re: Euthanasia

Brief Reflections on Euthanasia
By Fr. Frank A. Pavone
National Director, Priests for Life

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1
Increasingly, in the courts and the media and in conversation, we are hearing about euthanasia and the so-called "right to die."

It's time we all are fully informed about what is going on, and what the appropriate response should be.

Euthanasia is not a future problem. It is a present problem. It is happening now and becoming increasingly accepted. And we are asleep, not realizing that the road we are on will lead to the massive elimination of the elderly and "incompetent," and anyone else considered to be a burden to society.

Consider the Nancy Cruzan case. She had been in a coma for almost eight years, but was NOT dying, NOT deteriorating. The courts allowed food and water to be discontinued, and 12 days later (on the day after Christmas) she died. Note well, she did not die of the coma. She died of starvation. She was 33.

Or consider Dr. Jack Kevorkian, who let Janet Adkins, a 54 year old sufferer of early Alzheimer's, use his homemade "suicide machine" to kill herself. She pushed a button which released lethal fluids into her body. He has likewise administered death to dozens of others.

Is this the direction we want our society to go? Is life valuable only when it is healthy? Are we the ones who decide when we die? Is suffering meaningless?

The answer to all these questions is NO, and I hope in these reflections to explain why. Let us all do some serious thinking on these matters. It's a question of life and death.


2

.We do not have a "right to die." Many people now speak of such a thing, but without the proper understanding of the terminology they use.

A "right" is a moral claim. We do not have a claim on death. Rather, death has a claim on us!

We do not decide when our life will end, any more than we decided when it began. Much less does someone else -- a relative, a doctor, or a legislator--decide when our life will end. None of us is master over life and death.

What we do have a right to is proper care. It is never "care" in any sense of the word, to terminate life, even if that life is full of suffering. We have no right to terminate life.

There are groups in our country pushing for the "right" to use lethal injections on the seriously ill, or to remove their food and water. We must oppose such moral nonsense with all our strength. And the time to oppose it is now, before it becomes solidified in law.


3

No matter how ill a patient is, we never have a right to put that person to death. Rather, we have a duty to care for and preserve life.

But to what length are we required to go to preserve life? No religion or state holds that we are obliged to use every possible means to prolong life. The means we use have traditionally been classified as either "ordinary" or "extraordinary."

"Ordinary" means must always be used. This is any treatment or procedure which provides some benefit to the patient without excessive burden or hardship.

"Extraordinary" means are optional. These are measures which do present an excessive burden.

The distinction here is NOT between "artificial" and "natural." Many artificial treatments will be "ordinary" means in the moral sense, as long as they provide some benefit without excessive burden. It depends, of course, on the specific case in point, with all its medical details. We cannot figure out ahead of time, in other words, whether or not we ourselves or a relative want some specific treatment to be used on us "when the time comes," because we do not know in advance what our medical situation will be at that time or what treatments will be available. When the time does come, however, we must consult on the medical and moral aspects of the situation. Remember, procedures providing benefit without unreasonable hardship are obligatory; others are not. You should consult your clergyman when the situations arise.


4

According to the 1980 declaration from the Vatican, Jura et Bona, "euthanasia", or "mercy killing" is defined as "an action or an omission which of itself or by intention causes death, in order that all suffering may in this way be eliminated."

Our country is on a collision course with euthanasia. Think about the issue now, and work to change the course, or else you may end up a victim of it.

"Mercy killing". I do not see what killing has to do with mercy. What I do see is that those who advocate it have a MISPLACED compassion. They want to eliminate all suffering. Very nice, but very unrealistic...and also very pagan.

I ask you readers who are Christian, is all suffering meaningless? Does it have no value at all, no purpose? I do not wish suffering on anyone. But when it comes, is our only response to be to eliminate it, even to the point of euthanasia? You tell me whether this is the Christian gospel!

Was the suffering of Christ meaningless? Or do we not say, "We adore You, O Christ, and we bless You, for BY YOUR HOLY CROSS You have redeemed the world."? Did He not tell His followers to embrace the cross? Do we not join our pain to His to save souls?

Even from a secular viewpoint, does not suffering provide an occasion to grow in wisdom, character, and compassion?

The push for mercy killing is utterly pagan. Christian and all reasonable people must oppose it.


5

The core evil of euthanasia is that an individual or group of people think they have the right to put someone else to death.

"Killing a human being" is not a very nice concept. To make it more acceptable, therefore some people start playing with the language. They say, for example, that the one who is incurably ill or comatose is a "vegetable". A vegetable? What kind? A cucumber? Carrot?

NO MATTER WHAT THE AILMENT HE/SHE SUFFERS FROM, A HUMAN BEING IS ALWAYS HUMAN, AND ALWAYS HAS A RIGHT TO LIFE WHICH NOBODY, OF ANY PHILOSOPHICAL, POLITICAL, OR RELIGIOUS PERSUASION EVER IS ABLE TO TAKE AWAY. In fact, it is precisely when life is afflicted by weakness and illness that it is all the MORE deserving of our care.

Remember the song, "He Ain't Heavy; He's My Brother". Advocates of euthanasia do not see the ill this way, but only as a burden. God forgive them.

And how about you?


6

Those who push euthanasia (the killing of the seriously ill by act or omission) are all around. Have you met them? Have you heard them on TV and read their articles? If not, the time has come to be aware that they are on the march with their ungodly, death-dealing philosophy, trying to carve it into law.

Central to their utterly false philosophy is the notion that some lives are NOT WORTH LIVING. These lives, they maintain, are more trouble than they are worth. They have too much suffering, and are too much of a burden on the resources of society.

You know, if we were talking about a car, or a typewriter, or some other THING, we could say that when enough things go wrong with it, it becomes more trouble than it's worth. Repairs would be too costly, too involved. Throw it out and get a new one.

But we cannot apply this mindset to HUMAN PERSONS. A person is never more trouble than he/she is worth. Notice, we do not use the pronoun "it" to refer to a human being. There's a reason for that. A person is not a "thing", an "it", an object whose value is to be calculated on some kind of economic cost/benefit analysis scale. A person is worth more than the ENTIRE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE! Ponder that. Human life is of INFINITE VALUE, and this remains true no matter how small, weak, incommunicative, disabled, diseased, or "unproductive" (in the eyes of a materialistic, consumerist society like ours) it may be.

Take up the torch of life. Defend human life from euthanasia.


7

Many of you have heard of "Living Wills." These are documents by which a person can give in advance a directive to have life-sustaining medical treatment withheld or discontinued at the time of future serious illness, should he or she then be unable to make medical decisions. These living wills are being promoted as necessary for the person to die peacefully and with dignity. HOWEVER, living wills can be harmful rather than helpful. They are unnecessary and dangerous for patients, doctors, and society.

One of the many reasons that we should not get involved with living wills is that the language used is too broad and can be open to a variety of interpretations. This will vary from one document to another. But a living will distributed by the Concern for Dying organization asks that the signer "not be kept alive by medications" or "artificial means." What does that mean? An aspirin is "medication," is it not? Drinking through a straw is "artificial." People can construe meanings for these words which the signer of the document never intended.

There are other serious reasons not to make a living will, which are examined below.


8
"Living Wills" are unnecessary and dangerous. There are many reasons; here I will share one more.

According to an authoritative brochure on Living Wills printed by the Metropolitan New York Right to Life Foundation, Living Wills are unnecessary because they propose to give rights which patients and doctors already possess. To quote the brochure, "People already have the right to make informed consent decisions telling their family and physicians how they want to be treated if and when they can no longer make decisions for themselves. Doctors are already free to withhold or withdraw useless procedures in terminal cases that provide no benefit to the patient. Some people fear that medical technology will be used to torture them in their final days. But it is more likely that the 'medical heroics' people fear are the very treatments that will make possible a more comfortable, less painful death."

Catholics must follow the moral teachings of the Church in these matters and should consult a priest in specific cases. But by all means avoid "Living Wills." More on this to come.


9

Can you predict the future? Specifically, can you tell me what form of sickness or disease you will be afflicted with in the years ahead? Can you tell me what kind of treatment you will need?

Of course not, says common sense. But common sense is not as common as we might think. The making of a "Living Will" presupposes that we know what kind of medical treatments we will want to use or avoid in the future. It speaks about treatments before we even know the disease; it turns a future option into a present decision.

As I have explained above, not every medical treatment is always obligatory. But to figure out which treatments are obligatory, morally speaking, and which are only optional, one must know the medical facts of the case. These facts are then examined in the light of the moral principles involved. But to try to make that decision in advance is to act without all the necessary information. Moreover, to make that decision legally binding by means of a formal document is really putting the cart before the horse. It is not morally justified.

Living Wills are both unnecessary and dangerous.


10

Some years ago, the winner of a Pro-Life Essay Contest sponsored by the Archdiocese of New York was Anne Marie O'Halloran, from Maria Regina High School in Hartsdale. Her topic was euthanasia. Let me share with you some of her own words:

"One of the highest values this country holds is freedom. This has led to a situation in which individuals believe they have the right to live completely as they desire. Human beings are seen as limitless. They have the right to decide how they want to live and how they should die....Another quality prized by our culture is power. We believe, or rather, we would like to believe, that we can control anything and everything to ensure a safe and comfortable lifestyle....Our society has created a world in which it is always possible and always considered right to take the easy way out of problems, suffering and death. That way is completely against the example Jesus set for us; it is against Christian values. We, as Christians, must form a counter-culture. We do not pray for an easy, free or painless life and death. Rather we should pray for strength to sustain and understand the life God gave us to live."

May more young men and women come to see what this student sees and says so well, that we are NOT the absolute masters of life and death. Only God is. May His gift of life be respected.


11

Reflections on the growing problem of euthanasia require a word regarding the medical profession. The word is first of all one of gratitude. So many people have dedicated themselves to the care of others. The skills of medicine are skills to preserve and care for life. The heart and soul of the medical profession is UNWAVERING RESPECT FOR THE DIGNITY OF THE HUMAN PERSON, a dignity which is not bestowed by the State or by anyone else, but belongs to the very nature of the person. Those who promote this dignity deserve thanks.

The state of our times is also a plea to those who practice medicine: never allow the skills of your profession to be used to destroy the gift of life. Euthanasia is just a nice word for killing. We must oppose the trend which says that there are some lives not worth living. We must oppose the mentality which says that we should end a life in order to eliminate suffering. No, we do not end life. We care for it. When life is weak and afflicted with pain, it is all the more deserving of our care.

Our times demand courage and wisdom. May these not be lacking to any one of us!


12

On September 12, 1991, a statement was released by the Administrative Committee of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, and the statement centered on euthanasia. Since this statement is addressed both to Catholics and non-Catholics alike, I would like to reproduce it here. As it calls us to reject euthanasia, may it give us much food for thought. Here is how the letter begins:

"Current efforts to legalize euthanasia place our society at a critical juncture. These efforts have received growing public attention, due to new publications giving advice on methods of suicide and some highly publicized instances in which family members or physicians killed terminally ill persons or helped them kill themselves."

"Proposals such as those in the Pacific Northwest, spearheaded by the Hemlock Society, aim to change state laws against homicide and assisted suicide to allow physicians to provide drug overdoses or lethal injections to their terminally ill patients."

"Those who advocate euthanasia have capitalized on people's confusion, ambivalence, and even fear about the use of modern life-prolonging technologies. Further, borrowing language from the abortion debate, they insist that the "right to choose" must prevail over all other considerations. Being able to choose the time and manner of one's death, without regard to what is chosen, is presented as the ultimate freedom. A decision to take one's life or to allow a physician to kill a suffering patient, however, is very different from a decision to refuse extraordinary or disproportionately burdensome treatment.

"As Catholic leaders and moral teachers, we believe that life is the most basic gift of a loving God - a gift over which we have stewardship but not absolute dominion."

"Our tradition, declaring a moral obligation to care for our own life and health and to seek such care from others, recognizes that we are not morally obligated to use all available medical procedures in every set of circumstances. But that tradition clearly and strongly affirms that as a responsible steward of life one must never directly intend to cause one's own death, or the death of an innocent victim, by action or omission. As the Second Vatican Council declared, "Euthanasia and willful suicide" are "offenses against life itself" which "poison civilization"; they "debase the perpetrators more than the victims and militate against the honor of the Creator" (Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World, No. 27)."

"As the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has said, "Nothing and no one can in any way permit the killing of an innocent human being, whether a fetus or an embryo, an infant or an adult, or and old person, or one suffering from an incurable disease, or a person who is dying." Moreover, we have no right "to ask for this act of killing" for ourselves or for those entrusted to our care; "nor can any authority legitimately recommend or permit such an action." We are dealing here with a "violation of person, a crime against life, and an attack on humanity" (Declaration on Euthanasia," 1980)."

"Legalizing euthanasia would also violate American convictions about human rights and equality. The Declaration of Independence proclaims our inalienable rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." If our right to life itself is diminished in value, our other rights will have no meaning. To destroy the boundary between healing and killing would mark a radical departure from long-standing legal and medical traditions of our country, posing a threat of unforeseeable magnitude to vulnerable members of our society. Those who represent the interests of elderly citizens, persons with disabilities and persons with AIDS or other terminal illnesses are justifiably alarmed when some hasten to confer on them the "freedom" to be killed.

"We call on Catholics, and on all persons of good will, to reject proposals to legalize euthanasia. We urge families to discuss issues surrounding the care of terminally ill loved ones in light of sound moral principles and the demands of human dignity, so that patients need not feel helpless or abandoned in the face of complex decisions about their future. And we urge health care professionals, legislators and all involved in this debate to seek solutions to the problems of terminally ill patients and their families that respect the inherent worth of all human beings, especially those most in need of our love and assistance."
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Old 06-11-2009, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: Euthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josif59 View Post
Greetings Brad,

Like you, I also consider it an appropriate option in certain situations. It has to be the choice of the individual and made while they were of 'sound mind' to prevent any 'abuse'.
Its nice to see someone respond positively, thanks Josif. I pretty much knew most would be against it, and I am not sure I could do it to someone else even if they asked me to, and I could see the pain in thier eyes. My wife had a sister, the circumstances arent important, and after her massive stroke, and being told that she would never recover, never wake, the family agreed that the life support be pulled.
I understand how the rest of you feel and as I said, out of hand it could be used for great evil, and I feel it would no doubt get "out of hand"
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Knowledge and Wisdom are both good and worth finding, but they also have truly bad downsides, just study the life of Solomon to see the truth of this. Love does not puff up. Perfect Love drives out pride. Faith, Hope, and Love are the greatest of all things we can strive for, and the greatest of these are Love. Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with ALL your heart and lean NOT on your own understanding. In all your ways aknowledge Him and He shall direct your paths.
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Old 06-15-2009, 12:20 PM
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Default Re: Euthanasia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulheart3 View Post
Its nice to see someone respond positively, thanks Josif. I pretty much knew most would be against it, and I am not sure I could do it to someone else even if they asked me to, and I could see the pain in thier eyes. My wife had a sister, the circumstances arent important, and after her massive stroke, and being told that she would never recover, never wake, the family agreed that the life support be pulled.
I understand how the rest of you feel and as I said, out of hand it could be used for great evil, and I feel it would no doubt get "out of hand"
I, like Josif, was a healthcare worker. For years, I was the one who volunteered to take the "death watch" as I could not stand the thought of someone being alone in their final moments. I later found myself the director of services for an HIV services agency, before testing or treatment. Over and over, I counseled young people my own age (25-35) about their right to participate in care decisions and when to say "enough". I came to see that our medical technology had moved way beyond our moral or religious beliefs and that often we take the place of God in deciding that life should go on beyond what would occur without our medicines and machines. I often was named Health Care Proxy for my clientele and had to fight doctors based on the beliefs the clients had expressed: both to extend treatment when all had failed, or to remove it when it was evident that death was coming. My friends even started called me "Mrs. Death from the Village": I had 65 clients die in one year alone. all of them I knew intimately and still grieve.

But it trained me and so when my mother asked me to be her Proxy for a heart surgery that she believed she would not survive, I thought I was prepared. 3 days she lingered when the surgery went bad, 3 days they couldn't close her chest as the swelling was too great, 3 days the vent breathed for her, heart pump moved her heart, and the meds kept her marginally alive. 3 days I spent gently explaining to my family that she did not want to be kept alive this way. 3 days before I signed the order to remove the life support as I held her hand and directed her to God with all the family surrounding her. 10 minutes was the time between the vent and pump was turned off and the last sign of life left her body.

I have a health care proxy and my husband and nephew know that I do not want anyone interfering with my return to God. They know that I would chose increased morphine for pain control though it might hasten death. They know that I take one little pill each day that right now keeps me alive and that some day I may chose to not take it again. They know that I believe that death is a part of life and that I do not believe that it should be preserved at all costs. And as my mother trusted me to carry out her wishes, I trust them to do the same for me.
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Old 06-16-2009, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: Euthanasia

I thought that I'd have a lot to say about this, but I think it's all just been said.
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Old 06-16-2009, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: Euthanasia

I have never really had a problem with the Youth in Asia. I hear they really like soccer. I think it is called football most everywhere else....

Ok... someone had to make the joke right?

I don't think that it is man's place to decide when someone else should die. BUT... I would agree with NotFinishedYet... I also don't think it should be man's place to extend life past a point that natural causes would have caused the person's life to expire. I personally have a living will and several other legal documents drawn up to prevent medicine from interfering with God's will for my life.
Let me make very clear... the legal documents are very specific about what circumstances and conditions must be met first. The bottom line is that my passing must be by natural causes a.k.a. God's will.
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Old 07-12-2009, 01:41 PM
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Default Re: Euthanasia

Even without a living will it is up to family and they need to take that step when called for against artificially keeping the body functioning. It almost came to that with my mother after a brain hemorrhage however with a great deal of prayer she came through it. But it was an issue with my uncles and cousin. My uncle was taken off life support by his son after consulting with most all the rest of the extended family and my cousin had a living will and she was taken off life support. Both died shortly after that however I would also like to add that was life support machines not food. Their bodies were being sustained by machines. If it is only via food, which we all need to live, then I think we are again at a pivotal point of decision.

In Christ
Windy
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Old 07-19-2009, 06:45 AM
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Default Re: Euthanasia

Something that happened last year helped clarify this issue in my mind, when my mother-in-law, who was a really special lady, died. Let me tell the story of her last few days.

She had been ill with progressive heart failure, getting slowly worse. One evening, she collapsed at home, and was taken into hospital. They found she had pneumonia, which had started to poison her blood stream. The medics warned she might not make it through the night, but she did. For the next week she stayed in hospital, initially very poorly, but then starting to improve. After a week, we were starting to see some hope.

And then we got a phone call to say she had had a bad stroke, and there was only "a 1 per cent chance" of her regaining consciousness. That was on the Tuesday. The family gathered to her bedside, and took it in terms to stay with her, knowing the end could be imminent. At that point, with no hope left and the final outcome inevitable, we just had to wait. There is no legal option of euthanasia, under UK law, so the question is not one we had to address, but we did wonder, and pray, why doesn't God just take her home? Why let her and us suffer like this? But God had his purposes.

On Wednesday morning, she briefly regained consciousness, while Alison (my wife) and I were with her. She was paralysed by the stroke, but Ali's was able to explain to her what had happened, and say how much she loved her. Ali read her some scriptures, including the passage in Romans 8 that nothing can separate us from God's love, and then Ali's mum spoke, with some difficulty but nevertheless understandable, "I want to see". So Ali held the Bible in front of her, so her mum could see for herself the words Ali had just read. Not long after, she fell asleep again, and did not regain consciousness again until she died the following night.

"Only 1 per cent chance" said the medics. Yet she did regain consciousness, and even spoke, in response to the scriptures. That, we still believe, was a miracle.

There is more. On the night she died, Ali's dad was with her until about 9 p.m. He was not a believer, as far as we could tell, yet Ali had suggested to him that he might like to read scripture to her. Not knowing where to start, he looked in the index in the Gideon bible in the hospital room, and read to her from 1 John 4, "God is love". That was the last thing he ever read to her. He went home, and about midnight he got the call to say she had died. When we got to the hospital to say goodbye to her, he prayed, and rarely have I heard such a prayer straight from the heart.

And from that day onwards, he has started going to church every week, having not gone (except special occasions) for decades.

God knew what he was doing. In the midst of the worst time that the family has ever had to go through, he was there, with his blessing, working out his good purpose in a way that only he can do, beyond our understanding.
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