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  #1  
Old 11-25-2013, 05:05 AM
ElpidioLGagolinan's Avatar
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Default The book of Job

The Book of Job.

Is there anybody here who clearly understand the book of Job ? I am interested in your thoughts. Perhaps others besides myself are interested too.

So I am looking forward to your response.

ped
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Old 11-25-2013, 08:44 AM
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Default Re: The book of Job

Hi,

I cannot help you directly but I can point you in a direction you may consider following up.

Peter Kreeft is a Catholic and a professor of Philosophy at Boston College. Last year I bought a book of his called Three Philosophies of Life (Ignatius Press). He starts his Introduction by saying:
I have been a philosopher all my adult life, and the three most profound books of philosophy that I have ever read are Ecclesiastes, Job, and Song of Songs…….

When you have read all the books in all the libraries of the world, when you have accompanied all the world’s sages on all their journeys into wisdom, you will not have found three more profound books that Ecclesiastes, Job, and Song of Songs….

There are ultimately only three philosophies of life, and each one is represented by one of the following books of the Bible:
1. Life as vanity: Ecclesiastes
2. Life as suffering: Job
3. Life as Love: Song of Songs

He goes no to say later in the section on Job:
I would never have understood Job without the help of two great writers: J.R.R. Tolkein and Martin Buber.

Tolkein, because Kreeft says, he is the one who translated Job for the Jerusalem Bible. And it was when he began to read Tolkein’s translation that the book opened up to him and came to life.

Buber, because Kreeft says, he is the one that put in his hand the golden key that opened up the central door.

The sections under Job are:
1. The “Problem of Evil”
2. The Problem of Faith versus Experience
3. The Problem of the Meaning of Life
4. The Problem of God

God bless
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It isn't learned talk that saves man or makes a saint of him; only a life well lived can claim God's friendship. (Thomas À Kempis)
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Old 11-25-2013, 08:47 AM
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Default Re: The book of Job

The more understanding I gain of it, the less I want to learn.
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Matthew 23:12:
Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.
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Old 11-25-2013, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: The book of Job

Quote:
There are ultimately only three philosophies of life, and each one is represented by one of the following books of the Bible:
1. Life as vanity: Ecclesiastes
2. Life as suffering: Job
3. Life as Love: Song of Songs
I really only see two, serving God or not.

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15

One who serves God necessarily has taken on love, but suffering is not left out, is it? Jesus served God but He also clearly suffered.

Vanity is the "for nothing" (or "for me") way of looking at everything. Carnal man is a vain man. All of us have been there and at least in a measure still are there if we have not yet overcome as Jesus overcame.

There are not three distinct pathways. There are two primary ones, but each of them may well be mixtures of all those three elements: vanity, suffering and love.

The overcomer has left vanity behind and taken on love. Jesus had done both of these before He was crucified and yet there was most certainly remaining to Him: suffering to be suffered.

Focusing on the Book of Job for Ped:

Job was a man as we are men. His sufferings might be compared with the sufferings of Jesus, but with very notable difference. Jesus never erred. He always spoke the right thing and did the thing.

Job was described in the very first verse as a "perfect and upright man", yet in the book itself, we see a bit of pride sneaking into his words. He was rebuked and recognizing his own foolishness he lost his desire to reason with God when the opportunity was provided. God recognized Job's "perfect" heart even while He saw the need to correct the man.

Job (along with King David) seemingly had a "perfect" heart according to God. Is this likely the perfection of which Jesus spoke?

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:48

Is this not where a man needs to be when the dirt is thrown onto his face to qualify for the rewards of an overcomer described in Revelation chapters 2 and 3?

Job seemed to be there at the end of his book... [and perhaps at the end of his natural life???]
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Old 11-25-2013, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: The book of Job

The book of Job has several different purposes, but in my mind the main theme of Job is to teach us to love and serve God in both good and bad times. There is far too many people this day and age who only want to serve a sugar daddy God, that being they want and expect blessings at all times and are ready for a mouthful of curses, if those blessings we want don't come to us on a regular basis. Job loved and served God when greatly blessed (too often its when ppl get too many blessings that they fall away from the Lord to money), and when all things he loved but the Lord and His life were taken from him. How many ppl could do the same today?
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Knowledge and Wisdom are both good and worth finding, but they also have truly bad downsides, just study the life of Solomon to see the truth of this. Love does not puff up. Perfect Love drives out pride. Faith, Hope, and Love are the greatest of all things we can strive for, and the greatest of these are Love. Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with ALL your heart and lean NOT on your own understanding. In all your ways aknowledge Him and He shall direct your paths.
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:10 AM
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Default Re: The book of Job

Quote:
Originally Posted by winsome View Post
Hi,

I cannot help you directly but I can point you in a direction you may consider following up.

Peter Kreeft is a Catholic and a professor of Philosophy at Boston College. Last year I bought a book of his called Three Philosophies of Life (Ignatius Press). He starts his Introduction by saying:
I have been a philosopher all my adult life, and the three most profound books of philosophy that I have ever read are Ecclesiastes, Job, and Song of Songs…….

When you have read all the books in all the libraries of the world, when you have accompanied all the world’s sages on all their journeys into wisdom, you will not have found three more profound books that Ecclesiastes, Job, and Song of Songs….

There are ultimately only three philosophies of life, and each one is represented by one of the following books of the Bible:
1. Life as vanity: Ecclesiastes
2. Life as suffering: Job
3. Life as Love: Song of Songs

He goes no to say later in the section on Job:
I would never have understood Job without the help of two great writers: J.R.R. Tolkein and Martin Buber.

Tolkein, because Kreeft says, he is the one who translated Job for the Jerusalem Bible. And it was when he began to read Tolkein’s translation that the book opened up to him and came to life.

Buber, because Kreeft says, he is the one that put in his hand the golden key that opened up the central door.

The sections under Job are:
1. The “Problem of Evil”
2. The Problem of Faith versus Experience
3. The Problem of the Meaning of Life
4. The Problem of God

God bless
Thanks for the response. I will take note of what you wrote.

ped
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:11 AM
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Default Re: The book of Job

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelowlyfisherman View Post
The more understanding I gain of it, the less I want to learn.
Interesting.

ped
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:17 AM
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Default Re: The book of Job

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
I really only see two, serving God or not.

"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15

One who serves God necessarily has taken on love, but suffering is not left out, is it? Jesus served God but He also clearly suffered.

Vanity is the "for nothing" (or "for me") way of looking at everything. Carnal man is a vain man. All of us have been there and at least in a measure still are there if we have not yet overcome as Jesus overcame.

There are not three distinct pathways. There are two primary ones, but each of them may well be mixtures of all those three elements: vanity, suffering and love.

The overcomer has left vanity behind and taken on love. Jesus had done both of these before He was crucified and yet there was most certainly remaining to Him: suffering to be suffered.

Focusing on the Book of Job for Ped:

Job was a man as we are men. His sufferings might be compared with the sufferings of Jesus, but with very notable difference. Jesus never erred. He always spoke the right thing and did the thing.

Job was described in the very first verse as a "perfect and upright man", yet in the book itself, we see a bit of pride sneaking into his words. He was rebuked and recognizing his own foolishness he lost his desire to reason with God when the opportunity was provided. God recognized Job's "perfect" heart even while He saw the need to correct the man.

Job (along with King David) seemingly had a "perfect" heart according to God. Is this likely the perfection of which Jesus spoke?

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:48

Is this not where a man needs to be when the dirt is thrown onto his face to qualify for the rewards of an overcomer described in Revelation chapters 2 and 3?

Job seemed to be there at the end of his book... [and perhaps at the end of his natural life???]
I like your understanding of Job. As far as Job attaining perfection, i believe he is close but not close enough to not need a Savior. Yes I believe Job too needed a Savior like King David .

ped
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:23 AM
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Default Re: The book of Job

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulheart3 View Post
The book of Job has several different purposes, but in my mind the main theme of Job is to teach us to love and serve God in both good and bad times. There is far too many people this day and age who only want to serve a sugar daddy God, that being they want and expect blessings at all times and are ready for a mouthful of curses, if those blessings we want don't come to us on a regular basis. Job loved and served God when greatly blessed (too often its when ppl get too many blessings that they fall away from the Lord to money), and when all things he loved but the Lord and His life were taken from him. How many ppl could do the same today?
I like and agree with these, specially when you wrote:The book of Job has several different purposes, but in my mind the main theme of Job is to teach us to love and serve God in both good and bad times.

I agree with you, how many people could do the same as Job ? Blessed are those who can.

ped
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Old 11-26-2013, 08:34 AM
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Default Re: The book of Job

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElpidioLGagolinan View Post
Interesting.

ped
The jist of the story is maintaining faith through pain and hardship. In life we all suffer and the longer we live, the more sufferings we will have lived through. Job is the seed that fell on the good ground and sprouted and grew and sank its roots deep and flourished.
It is hard to keep your faith when you are suffering. It is a spiritual war. You are constantly under a barrage. Some say you are suffering because you are a sinner. Some say, "See, your god is not real." Some say, "Your God has abandoned you."
None of which is true. Your God is building your faith. Strengthening you. Refining you. Testing you, like a commanding officer tests his soldiers. Like jeweler tests fine gold and gems.
Not everybody who tries to get into the Green Berets makes the cut and gets the Beret. Those who do, are the best of the best.

Mark 4
1 He began to teach again by the sea. And such a very large crowd gathered to Him that He got into a boat in the sea and sat down ; and the whole crowd was by the sea on the land. 2 And He was teaching them many things in parables, and was saying to them in His teaching, 3 "Listen to this! Behold, the sower went out to sow ; 4 as he was sowing, some seed fell beside the road, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 "Other seed fell on the rocky ground where it did not have much soil ; and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of soil. 6 "And after the sun had risen, it was scorched ; and because it had no root, it withered away. 7 "Other seed fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked it, and it yielded no crop. 8 "Other seeds fell into the good soil, and as they grew up and increased, they yielded a crop and produced thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold." 9 And He was saying, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." 10 As soon as He was alone, His followers , along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables. 11 And He was saying to them, "To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables, 12 so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN."
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Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.
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